Mopick - Posted - 09/23/2011:  11:30:55

This is my friend Roy's smoker.  Well it belongs to his family.  His father and brother had it custom made a few years ago.  The fire box is a 12 inch well casing on the back that runs the length of the smoker with two "throats" as Roy calls it that open into the cook chamber.

Last weekend he smoked 214 pounds of pork shoulder to sell at an event to raise money for the Boy Scout troop.  Roy wraps foil around the butts for the first 8 hours of the cook then he unwraps them for a couple of hours, adds hickory for smoke and lowers the temperature to about 200 so as not to dry the meat out.  I never heard of this, I've been around a lot of pit masters.  I usually don't use any foil, but I know a lot of people that use a "Texas cheat" where they smoke the meat for a few hours then wrap it in foil to finish.

The cooked butts.  This is what my friend Roy said when I told him I don't use any foil.

"Perfection is done in 2 modes. cookin mode to retain juices, then smokin mode to instill da hickory... It's all about results ..."

They have been doing this a long time and he has his technique down.  They sold a lot of hawg samiches and made a lot of money for the Boy Scouts.  Everybody I talked to said the pork sandwiches were unbelievable.  I want  his cooker. 

Randy

Edited by - Mopick on 09/23/2011 11:34:14

pandjlocke - Posted - 09/23/2011:  11:53:25

Nice cooker. The pipe looks to be either 24" or 30" in diameter. My Horizon is 20". Kinda puny by comparison, but it gets the job done. I almost bought the 24" but  I had weight considerations to make. 

Looking at those butts is making me hungry!

yoss - Posted - 09/23/2011:  11:58:48

I have smoked a fair amount of pork products. Even some non pork products. I have even spent alot of time on forums dedicated to the topic, and I have never heard of foiling first. The Texas Crutch, if used (or admitted to being used) is done the finishing side of the smoke, not the start.

As with all things, the art of smoking meats is open to interpretation. however, you won't catch me doing it that way.

Mopick - Posted - 09/23/2011:  12:05:47

quote:

---

Originally posted by yoss

I have smoked a fair amount of pork products. Even some non pork products. I have even spent alot of time on forums dedicated to the topic, and I have never heard of foiling first. The Texas Crutch, if used (or admitted to being used) is done the finishing side of the smoke, not the start.



As with all things, the art of smoking meats is open to interpretation. however, you won't catch me doing it that way.

---

 I know.  I never even heard of it.  Leave it to Roy.  LOL.  You'll never get a bark on it like that that's for sure, and I'm all into the flavorful bark.

Mopick - Posted - 09/23/2011:  12:07:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by pandjlocke

Nice cooker. The pipe looks to be either 24" or 30" in diameter. My Horizon is 20". Kinda puny by comparison, but it gets the job done. I almost bought the 24" but  I had weight considerations to make. 

Looking at those butts is making me hungry!

---

 I was thinking about you Paddy when Roy sent me those photos.  Man how much meat could you cook on that baby.  Chimney at either end with dampers.  I told Roy to send me a picture of the back with the fire box.  He said it runs the entire length of the smoker with two throats for even heating. 

Dixie Chick - Posted - 09/23/2011:  12:08:49

WOW!!! they look delicious......bet they tasted real good!!

RODNEYJOHNSON - Posted - 09/23/2011:  12:11:32

DC, You lost all that weight now step away from the butts!

Dixie Chick - Posted - 09/23/2011:  12:22:05

 awwwwwwww can't I just try a little?????

pandjlocke - Posted - 09/23/2011:  12:48:04

Wow, Banjotom2 leaves Missouri and everything goes bassackwards! Don't know about that foil before smoke. 

KE - Posted - 09/23/2011:  12:53:42

Well, why not foil before smoke?  The smoke doesn't penetrate beyond about two hours anyway, especially for a butt.  The foil keeps it from drying out so you can cook low and slow.  Butt needs to get to 200 internal to get really fork pulling tender.

I've been brining my butts for 12 hours before cooking at around 225, and cooking to 200 internal.  Takes about 12 hrs, and I don't want to tend a fire that long, so after the smoke it goes inside to the oven and wrapped the last couple hours.

Brian T - Posted - 09/23/2011:  13:11:24

Interesting but bass-aakwards to the Memphis Blues restaurant/YVR.
Those guys are making a Standing-Room-Only living at it.
However, that man has a lot to do and a way to do it.
I prefer to use (apple) smoke for the first couple of hours so that can cook into the meat.
Foil at the end for the last hour of real "cook-time".
Nobody talks with their mouth full.
This year's big treat surprises were Cornish Game Hens and Lamb Shanks.

Pity. BBQ Bison sirloin roast tonight.

Mopick - Posted - 09/23/2011:  13:23:16

quote:

---

Originally posted by KE

Well, why not foil before smoke?  The smoke doesn't penetrate beyond about two hours anyway, especially for a butt.  The foil keeps it from drying out so you can cook low and slow.  Butt needs to get to 200 internal to get really fork pulling tender.

I've been brining my butts for 12 hours before cooking at around 225, and cooking to 200 internal.  Takes about 12 hrs, and I don't want to tend a fire that long, so after the smoke it goes inside to the oven and wrapped the last couple hours.

---

 Yeah, and the Texas crutch or Texas cheat helps the butt to get to 190-200 by wrapping in foil.  So the way Roy does it wrapping first it probably doesn't take but maybe 6 or 8 hours for the meat to get to 190-200.  He said when the meat comes up to the right temperature internal then he takes the foil off and adds hickory for smoke.  I just don't see it getting a bark and I like a dark outside bark. 

I use a Big Green Egg for slow smoking pork butts.  I told Roy I was going to buy a couple of 6 pound butts this weekend and smoke them.  One using his method, and one the way I normally do.  I usually start my fire early in the morning around 4 or 5   I will have covered the butts in either yellow mustard or cooking oil and then rub them down with my secret rub the night before. 

In the morning before I go out to start the fire I pull the butts out of the fridge and let them start coming up to room temperature.  I put the butts on the BGE and stabilize the temp at 220-225.  The Big Green Egg will cruise at that temperature for 14 or more hours.  I  put two or three fist sized chunks of hickory and that's it.  Maybe at the last couple of hours I may add some chips and let them smoke.  It's not easy to get to the fire in the Big Green Egg to add smoke wood.  I usually put it in on the front side and no more. 

After the first few hours I'll start mopping the butts every hour or so.  They reach a plateau when they get to about 160 internal.  This is the tricky part and where a lot of amateurs give up, stoke up the fire hotter or take them in to the oven, but this is where the magic happens.  At a cook temp of 220 or so, when the meat hits that 160 plateau, the collagen and connective tissue start to turn into a gelatinous goo.  It puts moisture in the meat and makes it fork tender.  Leave it alone at 225 until it breaks through the 160 plateau.  The internal temperature will start to rise again after a few hours of hovering at 160.  It will go on up to 180-190 then 200 and your done.  This may take anywhere from 12 to 14 hours on the Big Green Egg.  That's why I love the BGE because it will still have charcoal (natural lump) after a 14 hour cook.  I normally don't use any foil any time.  But like I said, I may try one with foil up front just to see how it does.  I'll let you know.

Brian T - Posted - 09/23/2011:  13:32:22

Good experiment! One way or the other, the results should be interesting.

Aside from the eats, the best part of this smoker BBQ style for me is set-it-and-forget-it.
Rub. Meat. Wood. Heat. Time. Temp. Done.

Tinfoot - Posted - 09/23/2011:  13:33:59

Back in the days of yore in Ft. Lauderdale, before government went thru and shut it all down, there used to be private smokers all over. Ole boys would stand there all day in great billowing clouds of smoked BBQ that could be seen for miles like an Old Testament prodigy, beckoning you ever to some pure, unfetter'd yums. -sighs-

KE - Posted - 09/23/2011:  13:34:33

Sounds like a great plan, Randy, and you're understanding the science of breaking down the collagen as I understand it.  If I had a BGE. I'd do it your way.  But I believe after -2 hours smoking on the Weber, there's no diff between the oven and the grill.

Do you, or have ever tried brining the butt?

Mopick - Posted - 09/23/2011:  13:46:33

quote:

---

Originally posted by KE

Sounds like a great plan, Randy, and you're understanding the science of breaking down the collagen as I understand it.  If I had a BGE. I'd do it your way.  But I believe after -2 hours smoking on the Weber, there's no diff between the oven and the grill.

Do you, or have ever tried brining the butt?

---

 You are correct.  After a couple of hours in the Weber the meat's not going to take any more smoke anyway.  Move it in to a controlled temperature environment (the oven) and let it finish.

I've never brined pork at all, but i love to brine chicken.  I've heard several people do brine pork.  I have used an injector from time to time but I don't find that it makes a lot of difference.  Maybe in  a beef brisket it might.  I'll try to brine a butt sometime, I know it sure makes a boneless, skinless chicken breast moist and juicy and I only brine them for about an hour before cooking.  I use a basic brine of 1/4 cup kosher salt in 4 cups of water.  Sometimes I may add 1/4 cup of brown sugar and even a shot of LA hot sauce.  But usually just the basic brine.  Oh sometimes I add 1 tsp of MSG.  My friend Nathan's family owned a chicken restaurant in Missouri and he told me they brined the bird with I cup kosher salt, I TBL spoon MSG to I gallon water.  I know a lot of people have a thing about MSG but I think it gets a bad rap especially in small amounts.  It's the umami you know.

pandjlocke - Posted - 09/23/2011:  13:59:14

MSG is suspected of contributing to migraines if you are subject to them. Don't know if that's been proven. 

When I smoke butts, I let them smoke for 1 fire box load of wood, which I started from charcoal. That's about 4 hours. Then I wrap them in foil and switch to charcoal for low slow heat. I let them cook to about 200 degrees internal, as KE said. Four hours of smoking gives a nice bark that gets all mixed up in the pull, giving a nice smoky flavor in every delicious bite.

Brian T - Posted - 09/23/2011:  14:04:36

Does glutamate still qualify as a neurotransmitter? Can't remember. I have a couple of acquaintances who profess to react badly to the stuff, maybe their nerves are finally working?.

I guess I compensate the Game Hens a little. They get rubbed inside and out then stuffed full of quartered onions and pinned shut.
The fat rendering impresses me, too. I have never in my entire life been a fan of eating roast chicken skin. However, the GH skin is savory and as thin and dry as tissue paper. Must admit, pretty good.

In the week before the wedding, my son-in-law did a couple of pork butts after sneaking a bag of rub into England. Saturday wedding, Sunday was pulled pork, sauce, slaw and all. I forget how long it took to pull it all. My, but the crowd from Cambridge packed it away.
Doing the food was good but the gathering was better.

KE - Posted - 09/23/2011:  14:11:11

BTW, we've been getting excellent quality Boston Butt here for $1.99 a pound.  Talk about cheap eats!

pandjlocke - Posted - 09/23/2011:  14:18:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by KE

BTW, we've been getting excellent quality Boston Butt here for $1.99 a pound.  Talk about cheap eats!

---

I paid $1.79/lb in August at the food warehouse. They come in 2-packs that weigh about 20 lbs. I smoked 6 butts (3 twin packs) for the Cub Scout day camp.

sprocter - Posted - 09/23/2011:  14:27:35

Oh man

Mopick - Posted - 09/24/2011:  19:27:02

Ok guys.  I have a nice Boston Butt in fridge.  I rubbed it with oil and my pork rub and I'm going to let in marinate until early tomorrow morning.  I'll be starting a fire in the Big Green Egg tomorrow morning probably about 5 with a target of tomorrow evening to pull it.  In my experience with the BGE it should take about 12 hours at 220.  I won't be using any foil but I will be mopping my butt regularly.

I talked to my friend Roy and this is what he said:

Mopick - Posted - 09/24/2011:  19:33:28

I have a nice little beef bottom round roast rubbed down in the fridge too.  I'll put it on the BGE along with the pork but the beef will be done a lot quicker.  I'll pull it off when the internal temperature is 150 (I like mine more on the well done side).  Pull it at 140 if you like it more rare.  It'll have a nice smoke ring and be oh so good for sandwiches and lunches next week

KE - Posted - 09/24/2011:  20:12:53

I really like the mojo marinade idea from your Cuban friends -- definitely giving that a try next time.  Unfortunately, the Boston butts were $3.79 today, so it will wait.

Mopick - Posted - 09/26/2011:  04:44:20

Ok.  I got up at 4:00 in the morning yesterday and started a fire in my Big Green Egg.  I should really learn to get my smoker ready the night before.  I'm out on the deck with an LED light on my head so I can see what I'm doing.  I had a Pork Butt and Bottom Round beef roast rubbed down, wrapped in cling wrap and in the fridge overnight.  I set these out on the counter to warm up a little as I was building my fire.  It didn't take long for the BGE to get to 250. I knew the beef would be done long before the pork, so I devised a plan.  I would take the beef off and later in the day I would throw some thick cut pork chops to smoke and finish the same time as the pork butt.  I put the meat in the BGE at 5:00.

The pictures below were taken about 8:00.  Once you get the BGE dialed in it just cruises all day.  The daisy wheel on top is only open a smidgen, and the bottom damper is only open about a half inch.  This thing is a fuel miser. The temp is a little over 250.

At 9:00 in the morning the beef was done.  It was cooked to 150 internal.  I'll have me some roast beef and provolone sandwiches for lunch this week.  The pork has a LONG way to go.

I figured the thick pork chops would take 5 hours.  I planned on taking the pulled pork off probably around 7:00.  It's hard to put an exact time on it because every fire is different, and every cook.  I know my rig well enough to know that it takes 10 to 12 hours to cook a pulled pork and maybe even 14 hours.  It all depends.  I mixed up a brine for the pork chops at 11:00.  I used about 2 cups of water, 2 cups of sour orange juice, a quarter cup of kosher salt, a couple of cloves of fresh garlic minced.  These went on the smoker at 1:00 in the afternoon.

At 6:00 the pork butt was done. It took 13 hours this time. You can tell when the pork butt is done. It shakes like Jelly and the bone slides out clean. This one never did reach 200 internal, but I cooked it over liquid filled pans. They were filled with water, beef broth, vinegar, garlic initially but when I was marinating the pork chops I had some of that sour orange and garlic mix left over and I poured that in the pans too. Not much, maybe a half cup. I basted the meat in this liquid throughout the cook with turkey baster. I normally mop the meat with a mop sauce I make, but this time I made the mop sauce in the drip pans. The thick cut pork chops got basted in this also. For whatever reason, it went the way it did. That's half the fun of cooking on fire. The end results were yummy. I had an all day event with the Big Green Egg, but no worries. It's pretty much set it and forget and I was in the pool with the outside speakers on listening to Nedski on Bluegrass Junction. 

After 13 hours the BGE was still at 225.  I could have opened it up and it would have have went up to 400.  There's still lump in there.

Randy

Mopick - Posted - 09/26/2011:  05:04:43

The pork chops were out on the edge where the heat comes up from below.  I had to keep turning them because they were getting direct / indirect heat.   They got done in 4 hours to 150 internal.  The new guidelines for cooking pork has lowered the recommended temperature from 160 to 140.  These were at 150 and they were just starting to dry out, but remember I brined them for a couple of hours and that put a little moisture in them. 

feldspar1333 - Posted - 09/26/2011:  05:42:52

Mmmm...  mmmmm....  I am still eating butts from the freezer from my last load.

Randy - I have an uncle with a BGE, I was amazed at how well it stayed at a constant temp and how little fuel it consumed.   I was also a bit disappointed in how difficult it is to get access to the fire once the food is loaded.  I am with you when it comes to bark.....  I'm definitely a bark shark.

BARK!!!!! (Paddy's rub recipe, rubbed twice)

Ken - I have read about brining pork, but have always found that the butts are so moist, tender and flavorful...  what's to be gained by brining?

Along those same lines....  I have never mopped my pork....  am I missing out?

Kurt

Edited by - feldspar1333 on 09/26/2011 05:51:05

Mopick - Posted - 09/26/2011:  05:55:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by feldspar1333

Mmmm...  mmmmm....  I am still eating butts from the freezer from my last load.

Randy - I have an uncle with a BGE, I was amazed at how well it stayed at a constant temp and how little fuel it consumed.   I was also a bit disappointed in how difficult it is to get access to the fire once the food is loaded.  I am with you when it comes to bark.....  I'm definitely a bark shark.

BARK!!!!! (Paddy's rub recipe, rubbed twice)

Ken - I have read about brining pork, but have always found that the butts are so moist, tender and flavorful...  what's to be gained by brining?

Kurt

---

 Look at that!  That's what I'm talkin' about!  It's actually kind of hard to get that kind of bark on a Big Green Egg.  It seals in so much moisture that it's hard.   And this time I cooked over liquid.  My pork had a nice dark outside.  Also I didn't trim back any of the fat cap and this one had a lot of fat up there.  All that real estate that could be forming a bark just got thrown away.  But the meat is sure nice and moist.

To me there's nothing like the indirect heat of an off set smoker to get that kind of bark.  Even indirect heat from building the fire on one side of a grill and having the meat on the other.  I just didn't want to baby a fire that much.  Don't get me wrong, the BGE is great but sometimes there's just nothing like an iron smoker with fire in it.

feldspar1333 - Posted - 09/26/2011:  06:01:45

I have been using a basic Brinkman smoker (thanks Paddy), and always cook over a full pan of water for the entire smoke.  Like you, I also don't trim all the fat cap off.  The butcher I get it from trims it down pretty close, and I leave the remaining half inch of fat on there....  I love the taste of that fat, even if it means the bark will just slide off that section of the butt.  I chop it all up anyway.   Yum.

Mopick - Posted - 09/26/2011:  06:04:44

BConk told me to use pans of dry, clean sand under the meat.  This produces a dry heat that is conducive to bark formation in the BGE. 

Mopick - Posted - 09/26/2011:  06:10:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by feldspar1333

I have been using a basic Brinkman smoker (thanks Paddy), and always cook over a full pan of water for the entire smoke.  Like you, I also don't trim all the fat cap off.  The butcher I get it from trims it down pretty close, and I leave the remaining half inch of fat on there....  I love the taste of that fat, even if it means the bark will just slide off that section of the butt.  I chop it all up anyway.   Yum.

---

 I wish I had a nickel for every time I've used a Brinkman water smoker.   I've smoked turkey's in that thing in a blowing Missouri blizzard.  LOL, I remember trying to put foil around the bottom to keep the cold wind out.  Those things are great! 

Hey Paddy, do I have your rub recipe?  You sent me a recipe for BBQ sauce a long time ago.  The rub I used on this one was basically paprika, salt, garlic powder, course ground black pepper and a little cayenne.

banjotom2 - Posted - 09/26/2011:  06:17:24

Wow! That kicks.. uhmmm... butt! ;)

Makes me almost want to come back to Missouri...

I used to jam with some guys that would get such a smoker going and we would stand around it and play all day long while enjoying our favorite brews...

I've been out here in Elizabethtown, PA for a couple of days now... having a good time...

Only been on the east coast once...

Got to see a lot of cool stuff...

I'll think about Missouri, but I'm gonna be staying out here and checking out the awesome scenery and town...

Pennsylvania is loaded with history and cool stuff... great people...

Tom

banjotom2.com

Mopick - Posted - 09/26/2011:  06:22:51

quote:

---

Originally posted by feldspar1333

BARK!!!!! (Paddy's rub recipe, rubbed twice)

Ken - I have read about brining pork, but have always found that the butts are so moist, tender and flavorful...  what's to be gained by brining?

Along those same lines....  I have never mopped my pork....  am I missing out?

Kurt

---

 Two schools of thought.   one, mop the meat along the way to add moisture. Basically after half way through the cook mop once an hour.   A NC type mop usually had a lot of vinegar and pepper.  The other school is that for every time you open the lid you lose precious heat, smoke and moisture so don't mop.  I've mopped, I've not mopped.  It's been good both ways and with you using a water smoker moisture isn't a problem.  Do you put just water in the pan.  I had water, a little beef broth.  My wife was making a pot of beef stew and I stole some of her beef broth.  LOL.  I had garlic, a couple of table spoons apple cider vinegar.  All that steaming up and penetrating the meat. 

feldspar1333 - Posted - 09/26/2011:  06:31:54

I generally add apple juice and onion to my water pan....  don't know if it just placebo flavor, but I do it anyway.

Mopick - Posted - 09/26/2011:  06:32:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjotom2

Wow! That kicks.. uhmmm... butt! ;)

Makes me almost want to come back to Missouri...

I used to jam with some guys that would get such a smoker going and we would stand around it and play all day long while enjoying our favorite brews...

I've been out here in Elizabethtown, PA for a couple of days now... having a good time...

Only been on the east coast once...

Got to see a lot of cool stuff...

I'll think about Missouri, but I'm gonna be staying out here and checking out the awesome scenery and town...

Pennsylvania is loaded with history and cool stuff... great people...

Tom

banjotom2.com

---

 Penn.  looks pretty neat.  I guess you're a Steelers fan now instead of Cardinals.....er.....I mean Rams.  LOL.  I was a St. Louis Football Cardinals fan big time when I was a kid and they were still in Missouri.  I was in in high school and the Cardinals came down to play a benefit basketball game against our coaches.  One of our coaches was a track guy and he challenged Mel Gray to run against him in a hundred yard dash from corner to corner of the basketball court.  This was for charity.

Mel wrote back, "I'll dash for cash, but I won't run for fun."  LOL  I was pissed when the Cardinals left St. Louis.  Pastor Tony McCoy is our friend.  He played for nine seasons with the Phoenix Cardinals and a couple of seasons with the Indiana Colts.  Tony was a Gator with Emmit Smith and they both entered the NFL the same year.

Good luck, I know you're going to enjoy it out there.  It's always nice to get out away from Missouri.  But she always beckons you back.  It's been 27 years for me since I left Missouri and moved to FL.

Randy

Mopick - Posted - 09/26/2011:  06:42:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by feldspar1333

I have been using a basic Brinkman smoker (thanks Paddy), and always cook over a full pan of water for the entire smoke.  Like you, I also don't trim all the fat cap off.  The butcher I get it from trims it down pretty close, and I leave the remaining half inch of fat on there....  I love the taste of that fat, even if it means the bark will just slide off that section of the butt.  I chop it all up anyway.   Yum.

---

My BGE is a medium.  The cooking grid is 15 inches in diameter, the same size as the Brinkman water smoker.  But in the Brinkman you have two.  One directly over the water pan and one higher in the dome.  I could get a little elevated grate that has legs and cook another layer above this but it is smaller and you don't have a lot of clearance up there.

feldspar1333 - Posted - 09/26/2011:  06:58:20

Yeah, the Brinkman has a lot of room for it's size.  I smoked four butts last time around.  The BGE is a work of art, I really enjoy using them.

Funny thing...  I am still wrestling with what temp I like to take the pork off the smoker.  Obviously 200-205 makes it fall apart tender (pull apart), but I REALLY like when the pork still has a little structure and can be chopped into cubes (I am not much for making sandwiches, I like to put the pork on top of rice).  I like the mouth-feel of the slightly firmer pork.

Mopick - Posted - 09/26/2011:  07:12:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by feldspar1333

Yeah, the Brinkman has a lot of room for it's size.  I smoked four butts last time around.  The BGE is a work of art, I really enjoy using them.

Funny thing...  I am still wrestling with what temp I like to take the pork off the smoker.  Obviously 200-205 makes it fall apart tender (pull apart), but I REALLY like when the pork still has a little structure and can be chopped into cubes (I am not much for making sandwiches, I like to put the pork on top of rice).  I like the mouth-feel of the slightly firmer pork.

---

 Yep, that's the 160 to 180 degree range.  You can slice it, or chop it. 

KE - Posted - 09/26/2011:  07:15:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by feldspar1333

(snip the great pic of the chowhounds)

Ken - I have read about brining pork, but have always found that the butts are so moist, tender and flavorful...  what's to be gained by brining?

Along those same lines....  I have never mopped my pork....  am I missing out?

Kurt

---

Two reasons I offer: additional flavor throughout the butt and moisture.  Smoke only penetrates about a half-inch, but give the brine 12-24 hours and it permeates the butt.  My brine mix is 1 part salt, 1 part brown sugar, 8 parts water plus a reasonable quantity of dry rub spices, liquid smoke and some bay leaves.  Yeah, I know, real bbq'ers don't use liquid smoke -- but I do.  It's the same darn stuff collected from smoking, and if you can permeate the meat all the way through, why not?  After smoking on a Weber, I finish in an oven at 225 without foil wrap.  I think the additional moisture from an isotonic solution helps keep it moist for the 12 or so hours in the low oven.

I don't like to mop. It's just a personal choice, again for two reasons (not counting laziness): I don't like to open the oven while cooking, and I prefer the dryish carmelized (from the brown sugar) crust you get from a very generous coating of rub into all the cracks and crevices.  I do tend to select butts that are well trimmed of the fat cap to get an all-round crust that doesn't come off with the fat cap and can penetrate into the meat.  I find there's plenty of internal fat for flavor in the butt.

Mopick - Posted - 09/26/2011:  07:27:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by KE

quote:

---

Originally posted by feldspar1333

(snip the great pic of the chowhounds)

Ken - I have read about brining pork, but have always found that the butts are so moist, tender and flavorful...  what's to be gained by brining?

Along those same lines....  I have never mopped my pork....  am I missing out?

Kurt

---

Two reasons I offer: additional flavor throughout the butt and moisture.  Smoke only penetrates about a half-inch, but give the brine 12-24 hours and it permeates the butt.  My brine mix is 1 part salt, 1 part brown sugar, 8 parts water plus a reasonable quantity of dry rub spices, liquid smoke and some bay leaves.  Yeah, I know, real bbq'ers don't use liquid smoke -- but I do.  It's the same darn stuff collected from smoking, and if you can permeate the meat all the way through, why not?  After smoking on a Weber, I finish in an oven at 225 without foil wrap.  I think the additional moisture from an isotonic solution helps keep it moist for the 12 or so hours in the low oven.

I don't like to mop. It's just a personal choice, again for two reasons (not counting laziness): I don't like to open the oven while cooking, and I prefer the dryish carmelized (from the brown sugar) crust you get from a very generous coating of rub into all the cracks and crevices.  I do tend to select butts that are well trimmed of the fat cap to get an all-round crust that doesn't come off with the fat cap and can penetrate into the meat.  I find there's plenty of internal fat for flavor in the butt.

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 The last one I did before this I trimmed the fat cap off myself.  And I rubbed it all over.  It was great to have all that bark.  That's the way I think I may start doing it. 

pandjlocke - Posted - 09/26/2011:  08:22:04

quote:

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Originally posted by Mopick

quote:

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Originally posted by feldspar1333

I have been using a basic Brinkman smoker (thanks Paddy), and always cook over a full pan of water for the entire smoke.  Like you, I also don't trim all the fat cap off.  The butcher I get it from trims it down pretty close, and I leave the remaining half inch of fat on there....  I love the taste of that fat, even if it means the bark will just slide off that section of the butt.  I chop it all up anyway.   Yum.

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 I wish I had a nickel for every time I've used a Brinkman water smoker.   I've smoked turkey's in that thing in a blowing Missouri blizzard.  LOL, I remember trying to put foil around the bottom to keep the cold wind out.  Those things are great! 

Hey Paddy, do I have your rub recipe?  You sent me a recipe for BBQ sauce a long time ago.  The rub I used on this one was basically paprika, salt, garlic powder, course ground black pepper and a little cayenne.

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I'm on it.

My discoveries on brining pork. Butts for pulling? No. Less fatty roasts. By all means. After brining, pork will smoke with a more dense texture, similar to a ham. It's great for slicing and mighty tasty, too. That texture does not lend itself to pulling well, though.

KE - Posted - 09/26/2011:  08:30:52

Hmmm . . . must be the difference in cooking method.  My brined Boston butts fall apart and shred with little effort -- as long as they are cooked to 190-200F.  Basically, you cannot slice the meat because it falls apart when you apply a knife.

Edited by - KE on 09/26/2011 08:31:43

bilge rat - Posted - 09/26/2011:  09:31:07

I smoke pork butts often. I never brine pork..but always chicken/turkey. 1/2 cup salt & 1/2 cup sugar and 1 gallon of water and anything else you enjoy.

225 degrees for 18 - 20 hours is usual. Dry rub to start, but I never foil the butts. For sure, if I was going to foil, it is not early, but later after the smoke has been absorbed. Occasional misting with apple juice/vinager keeps them moist.

Pull the pork at 200 degrees...killer dinner.

ron

bilge rat - Posted - 09/26/2011:  09:38:55

Banjotom2..if you are in Elizabethtown and want to go to a cool Smoking-BBQ store...check out Meadow Creek BBQ in New Holland, PA. about 45 minutes from E-town.

Lots of grills, smokers, BGE's and supplies.

ron

pandjlocke - Posted - 09/26/2011:  09:55:10

quote:

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Originally posted by KE

Hmmm . . . must be the difference in cooking method.  My brined Boston butts fall apart and shred with little effort -- as long as they are cooked to 190-200F.  Basically, you cannot slice the meat because it falls apart when you apply a knife.

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I may try again. I always brine my turkeys and love the moisture retention and flavor. I also brine ribs before smoking. As I recall, I was having digital thermometer issues about the time I brined the butts. Internal temp may not have been high enough for a pulled product. I know my new thermometer is accurate.

KE - Posted - 09/26/2011:  10:05:23

quote:

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Originally posted by pandjlocke

quote:

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Originally posted by KE

Hmmm . . . must be the difference in cooking method.  My brined Boston butts fall apart and shred with little effort -- as long as they are cooked to 190-200F.  Basically, you cannot slice the meat because it falls apart when you apply a knife.

---

I may try again. I always brine my turkeys and love the moisture retention and flavor. I also brine ribs before smoking. As I recall, I was having digital thermometer issues about the time I brined the butts. Internal temp may not have been high enough for a pulled product. I know my new thermometer is accurate.

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The interesting thing about cooking a half-dozen butts at a time the way you do would be to experiment with one or two of them.  Sample, and if you like the result, keep it.  If not, blend it in with the others and nobody could tell the difference.

My next experiment will be the Cuban mojo citrus marinade that Randy mentioned.  Maybe some Aleppo pepper in the rub.

Mopick - Posted - 09/26/2011:  10:21:29

quote:

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Originally posted by KE

quote:

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Originally posted by pandjlocke

quote:

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Originally posted by KE

Hmmm . . . must be the difference in cooking method.  My brined Boston butts fall apart and shred with little effort -- as long as they are cooked to 190-200F.  Basically, you cannot slice the meat because it falls apart when you apply a knife.

---

I may try again. I always brine my turkeys and love the moisture retention and flavor. I also brine ribs before smoking. As I recall, I was having digital thermometer issues about the time I brined the butts. Internal temp may not have been high enough for a pulled product. I know my new thermometer is accurate.

---

The interesting thing about cooking a half-dozen butts at a time the way you do would be to experiment with one or two of them.  Sample, and if you like the result, keep it.  If not, blend it in with the others and nobody could tell the difference.

My next experiment will be the Cuban mojo citrus marinade that Randy mentioned.  Maybe some Aleppo pepper in the rub.

---

 What I did what more of a brine.  I had half a bottle of sour orange juice from last time I made cuban style pork.  I didn't add any lime juice or jalapeno but I will next time. 

Cuban Mojo Sauce recipe

courtesy of the Cocina Cubana Club founded by Pascual Perez & chef Sonia Martinez

The authentic mojo is made with juice from sour oranges. It still has that little orangy taste, but its very acid and tart. You can come close by mixing equal amounts of freshly squeezed orange juice with lime juice (*). If you live in areas with large concentration of Latinos you will probably find bottled Mojo (Goya brand makes one) or their produce department might have the slightly bumpy, thick skinned sour oranges. This recipe makes one cup.



1/3 cup olive oil

6 to 8 cloves garlic, thinly sliced or minced

2/3 cup sour orange juice or lime juice

(or equal portions orange juice and lime juice)

1/2 tsp ground cumin

Salt and freshly ground black pepper, to taste



Heat the olive oil in a deep saucepan over medium heat. Add the garlic and cook until fragrant and lightly toasted. Don't let it brown or it will be acrid tasting, just about 30 seconds should do it.



Add the sour orange juice, cumin and salt and pepper. STAND BACK; the sauce may sputter. Bring to a rolling boil. Taste and correct seasoning, if needed



Cool before serving. Mojo is best when served within a couple of hours of making, but it will keep for several days, well capped in a jar or bottle, in the refrigerator.



Use with Cuban sandwiches, boiled yucca, grilled seafood and meats, fried green plantain chips, etc.



I have seen recipes for mojo using cilantro in it, but that is not traditional to Cuban Cuisine.



(*) I prefer to add more lime juice than orange, as I like it very tart.  

pandjlocke - Posted - 09/26/2011:  11:45:21

Here is my main rub recipe. It works fine without the orange peel and lavender, but I juice a lot of oranges and dehydrate the peels. I like the added "what's that flavor?; can't quite put a finger on it" effect it has on the rub. Also, I have around fifty lavender bushes in my front yard, so why not? It's free. Here's the recipe:

Paddy's Orange Dry Rub

This is a good rub for pork, beef and chicken.

1/2 cup chili powder (I use a combination of ancho, New Mexico, and a bit of cayenne)

1 cup brown sugar, firmly packed

2 tablespoons ground cinnamon

3 tablespoons ground cumin

3 tablespoons ground dried orange peel

1 tablespoon black pepper

2 tablespoons oregano

3 tablespoons onion powder

3 tablespoons garlic powder

2 tablespoons kosher salt

2 tablespoons Ground Coffee

2 teaspoons ground allspice

2 teaspoons Lavender

Mix all ingredients together. Rub generously on meats about 8-10 hours before barbequing. Also can be used as a wet marinade with the addition of vinegar or citrus juice, olive oil, wine and water.

dpeacock1 - Posted - 09/26/2011:  12:30:27

Cooked a boston butt & whole pork loin yesterday over oak and hickory coals on my 12 year old model 84 Lang Cooker. Wife Cindy made slaw, potato salad, and deep fried slices of yellow squash and okra(from our garden) rolled in corn meal. The pork was coarse chopped and mixed with a little homemade eastern, NC bbq sauce. (Cider vinegar, coarse salt, coarse cracked black peppercorns, crushed dried ceyenne pepper(from the garden) to taste and made several weeks previous).
langbbqsmokers.com/

Shared with some close friends around our kitchen table, it was a fine Sunday evening.
Doug