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XXXris - Posted - 04/30/2011: 11:33:15
Hi Everyone:
Boy this Buckbee banjo is finickey to set up. I thought it was all done.... The flesh hoop is just a little too small, and so it is starting to slip beneath the rather bendable tension hoop. The Buckbee luthiers made the flesh hoop with a lap-joint that was bound together using only the finest twine. I'll have to take off the head and make it a tad bigger....
So, the question of course is how do I re-set a skin head that is already trimmed? It will be difficult to get this to fold up underneath the tension hoop as I will only have a half-inch or so to work with. The head will still fit, it is just getting it on there... I'm sure some of you have tricks for this one!
Many thanks,
Chris
mralston - Posted - 04/30/2011: 11:55:56
Some suggestions:
1. If you can live with the less-than-perfect appearance and if the banjo is stable (i.e., head is tight enough, etc.), then the best fix might be to do nothing.
2. If the top of the tension hoop is now down near the head, you might find something (like 1/8" x 1/8" metal rod) that you can bend around the pot and place on top of the flesh hoop so that the tension hoop will sit properly. A slipping flesh hoop is a pretty common problem, and it's why I always replace the round, skinny flesh hoops with 1/8" x 1/8" brass rod, which is pretty inexpensive stuff. This fix might be accomplished without taking the head off the flesh hoop.
3. If you need to take the flesh hoop out of the hide (either to re-use the existing flesh hoop [not recommended] or to replace the existing hoop with an 1/8" x 1/8" hoop), then you have a trickier challenge. I've re-set heads by wetting them, draping them over the pot, placing the flesh hoop in place, and then using superglue to tack the head roughly every inch around the perimeter. To have this work, you need to visually estimate how far up the head needs to lap, plus keep the head pretty wet while you're working with it. The tacking works and I've salvaged a few heads this way, but I don't know if tacking with superglue will make it impossible to take the head off the flesh hoop if you mis-guesstimate the lap on the head.
4. Worst case, get a new head and start over with a better flesh hoop.
Nuts - Posted - 04/30/2011: 12:00:27
If it was mine I would ditch the round flesh hoop wire and start completely over with 1/8" square stock for the flesh hoop, a new skin and write this one off as a learning experience. Square stock will behave much better and allow you to pull the skin tighter than with round wire.
jbalch - Posted - 04/30/2011: 12:02:01
I've had that problem before. In one case, I was able to solve it by removing the head and simply rotating it around to a different position on the rim. I placed the head so that the part which tended to pull out was positioned at the end of the fingerboard. The fingerboard pressed the tension hoop close to the rim and would not allow the flesh hoop to slip under.
The rim or tension hoop might be a little out of round. The flesh hoop might be out of round too. Before trying to re-set the skin. I'd see if there is a way to spin it around on the rim for a better fit with the tension hoop. You might even be able to re-shape the flesh hoop a little without removing the hide.
(I'm linking this to the Hide Heads group banjohangout.org/group/hideheads)
I borrowed your photo to mark it up a bit. It looks to me like one or the other of the hoops might be out of round . I hope maybe you can fix the problem by re-aligning the two hoops.
XXXris - Posted - 04/30/2011: 20:22:18
Thanks folks! Here's the real problem: this banjo has already eaten TWO heads (with unrelated issues). I'm just not putting another head into it, as that would be about half the value of the instrument! This banjo is lucky that (a) it sounds really nice and (b) fireplace season is over.
John: Yes, everything is out of round! The pot is much rounder than it was when I got it.... The tension hoop is one of the very thin floppy ones. It's not as bad as it looks here; the distortion is caused by it pulling down some when the head slipped up.
What about setting the head without the tension hoop? Wet, put on the flesh hoop, then use a strong rubber band or something until it dries? Then put on the hoop again. I know, this is getting silly.
Chris
jbalch - Posted - 05/01/2011: 06:42:12
What about loosening everything...and placing some type of shim between the flesh hoop and the rim (at the point where it tends to slip under)?
I'm still looking for a solution that does not involve removing the skin from the flesh hoop. Frankly,. I think that it will be difficult to re install.
carlb - Posted - 05/01/2011: 10:31:51
quote:
Originally posted by jbalch
What about loosening everything...and placing some type of shim between the flesh hoop and the rim (at the point where it tends to slip under)?
That's just what I did, but on the entire flesh hoop (copper sheet bent in half).
carlb - Posted - 05/03/2011: 10:23:00
quote:
Originally posted by jbalch
I'm still looking for a solution that does not involve removing the skin from the flesh hoop. Frankly,. I think that it will be difficult to re install.
I forgot to say in my previous post that I did remove the flesh hoop, hammered the copper on and then replaced the flesh hoop on the same skin (do not wet it; leave it dry) without any problems. I had removed the flesh hoop on another banjo, once before and replaced it over the dry skin without any problems. The folded over portion of the skin stayed tight so re-installing the flesh hoop was relatively easy.
Jonnycake White - Posted - 05/04/2011: 08:37:50
Save those old heads for banjo ukes or mountain banjos.
Edited by - Jonnycake White on 05/04/2011 08:38:21
XXXris - Posted - 05/04/2011: 19:45:58
quote:
Originally posted by Jonnycake White
Save those old heads for banjo ukes or mountain banjos.
I put the first busted head on my mountain banjo. Gave the second one away to a banjo uke player. I've had enough!! (I'm working on this over the weekend, I'll let you know what happens.)
XXXris - Posted - 05/22/2011: 13:31:09
Well, here is one solution; I tried several other methods, which only ended in cursing.
This one actually worked: I took a piece of thick twine, wet it, tied a slip-knot to make a loop, and then put the loop of twine around the pot, tightening it as much as possible. Then, re-wet the head, enlarged the flesh-hoop, and placed the head/flesh hoop on the rim where I thought they should go. I butted the twine right up against the bottom of the head/flesh hoop, and then working my way around the hoop, gradually rolled the twine up onto the hoop/head, holding the head in place. (See picture.) There was very little head to work with, but this wasn't too difficult to do, and it dried fine. Minimal cursing occurred during this operation.
Chris
vintagewells - Posted - 05/22/2011: 16:14:14
Excellent solution.
I was going to suggest putting a ring of veneer around the top of the rim to bring the flesh hoop out all the way around. But that may cause the flesh hoop to pop out from the outside.
