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slc - Posted - 02/23/2011: 23:28:19
From the Hamblen Collection, a collection of tunes originally played by David Hamblen (1809-1893) and notated by his grandson A. Porter Hamblen.
There are no historic recordings of this tune that I'm aware of and I learned it entirely from the page, and on the fiddle - each a laborious process for me! Many of the melodies in the Collection require a certain amount of 'creative interpretation', but I play this one pretty close to the score.
Christian Wig has this melody on his CD, "Chadwell's Station" (which is also the title of another Hamblen tune he plays), and it sounds great.
This particular recording is to replace an earlier attempt which was terrible in terms of recording quality - hopefully this one is a little better!
Stefan
tom elder - Posted - 02/24/2011: 04:18:33
Mighty pretty,i read once somewhere it's not the fiddle tune so much as what the fiddler brings to it.Maybe this is how a tune gets names such as Hamblen's Number?
Edited by - tom elder on 02/24/2011 04:20:10
Frailblazer - Posted - 02/24/2011: 05:38:28
A beautiful tune and wonderfully played Stefan! I love the resonance you get as the melody is played across open strings.
- Ric
rjs808 - Posted - 02/24/2011: 08:08:20
Very nice! I enjoyed it.
stigandr5 - Posted - 02/24/2011: 09:24:22
This sounds excellent! I found an item for the Christmas list.
slc - Posted - 02/24/2011: 10:17:25
Thanks all!
stigandr5 - For the Christmas list it's a little more complicated, since this Collection isn't in print. I had to do a rather arduous process of getting it scanned at the Library of Congress. Here's a superb description of the tunes and the process:
singingwood.com/HamblenCollect...ndex.html
tom - Most of the tunes in the above collection do have names, and many of them are standards we already know and play. But some have been learned only out of the Collection (such as Chadwell's Station). A few don't have names other than 'untitled tune' and this is one of them.
One of the interesting things about this music is that I suspect the grandson made some errors in his notation (disclaimer: I'm NOT an expert - I can just barely read notation!), in particular how he wrote out modal and minor tunes. If you played the tunes literally some would sound very odd indeed (and not in a good way) - but if you shift to 'modal' suddenly the tune makes sense. Some of the tunes have traditional counterparts which support this.
Frailblazer - I think that 'resonance' you mention is from a trick I do: I use my middle and index fingers to play alternate (not adjacent) strings simultaneously - i.e., strike the 1st string with my middle and the 3rd with my index (same for the 2nd and 4th strings). It makes a nice drone/chord note (without the messiness of a strum) while melody can be played on either string. I try not to overdo it, but it's especially nice for tunes with descending notes on the 1st string, like in Waynesboro. I've been thinking of doing a video of this technique.
banjoike - Posted - 02/24/2011: 11:23:26
Wonderful playing!!!
banjoike - Posted - 02/24/2011: 11:23:39
Wonderful playing!!!
Frailblazer - Posted - 02/24/2011: 14:26:02
quote:
Originally posted by slc
I've been thinking of doing a video of this technique.
That would be neat Please do!
- Ric
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 02/24/2011: 15:07:01
You said: "If you played the tunes literally some would sound very odd indeed (and not in a good way) - but if you shift to 'modal' suddenly the tune makes sense."
What do you mean by "shifting to modal"?
slc - Posted - 02/24/2011: 16:53:23
Marc - A good example is 'The Jolly Blacksmith'. In the Hamblen Collection it looks like the attachment. It's an 'A' tune, with an 'A' signature, starts and ends on 'A'. But actually the tune is modal (Dorian??) - it both sounds better with the 'G' and 'C' notes flatted, and the tune is related to a very similar traditional tune called The Route (so I hear), and that's also played modally. So the author is writing the notes out in A Major for an A Minor tune...
There are several other examples in the Collection, and it's up to the reader to decide which sounds 'right'.
Personally it makes a kind of sense - after all it's in 'A' dammit - why mess around with all those fancy notey tricks when it's in 'A'? It's only when simple-minded fiddlers like myself painstakingly try to work out the tune from the music that it's a problem.
Does that make sense? I'm afraid my half quarter of music thirty years ago isn't making me feel very confident about all of this...
stigandr5 - Posted - 02/24/2011: 17:13:02
What tuning did you have your banjo in for this piece?
slc - Posted - 02/24/2011: 18:51:00
I'm in A-modal (G-modal with a capo). I had first worked it out in regular A (G tuning, capoed up), but I liked the darker sound of modal. And that C# note (first note of the first part) sounds a little more dissonant (in a good way) than if it's allowed to ring freely (in a bad way) on the open 2nd string in major tuning. But either tuning will work for the purposes of figuring it out.
slc - Posted - 02/28/2011: 07:17:36
I wrote out some tab for this tune - my first attempt! And I'm tweaking the name slightly, calling it 'Hamblen 12' instead of 'Untitled Tune on Page 12 of the Hamblen Collection'. I think this will be less confusing and anyone familiar with the Collection probably will understand it's meaning right off.
Looking over the tab, it looks pretty easy - very few fancy notes are needed to get to the heart of the melody. I'm labeling it "intermediate" since it's a little weirder than "beginning" but I think a beginner could work most of it out pretty easily.
I also created a MIDI file of the tab (generated from the tab - TablEdit is amazing), and am attaching the original MP3 I made a week or so ago. That way everything is in one tidy place.
Note that to get the MIDI you need to get it from my (very short) tab list - I couldn't figure out how to upload it here.
I thought TablEdit was great, but was a but overkill for what I needed, and simple on-page text notes weren't easy - thus the different format. Being my first effort, please let me know any gross errors or confusions.
Edited by - slc on 02/28/2011 07:21:07
carlb - Posted - 02/28/2011: 07:49:18
Jaybird in the Hamblen collection is almost exactly what John Summers played.
slc - Posted - 02/28/2011: 09:52:08
[apologies if this is a duplicate post - I wrote something, but it's not showing up. Note to self: don't use iPad for posting forum comments!]
Carl - yeah, there are quite a few 'standard' tunes in the Hamblen Collection. I haven't worked out any of them so can't compare to how they are played now. However most of the other ones I've experimented with have a distinctly Irish/Scottish feel to them, and I get the feeling these were tunes from the melting pot of mountain music in the 1800's. One has to remember that the music was transcribed years after the grandfather David Hamblen died in 1893, so it's filtered through the memory and playing style of the grandson. But it's interesting to speculate how much is a true reflection of that place and time.
One tidbit - when I was checking the death date for David Hamblen: there's a quote from a nephew describing Three Forks of Cumberland:
quote:
"This tune was my favorite of all dear Uncle David's library and I believe it is the hardest tune to put on paper I have ever tackled. This haunting melody will come to you as you play it. Tune your violin with D and G strings up (to E & A). David called it "Italian Key". I am mailing you as perfect a photograph of Uncle David's playing this tune as it would be possible for me to make. You know it has been a long time since I sat at his knee to record it and he pronounced it perfectly. Let us hope nothing has slipped."
I have never heard of cross-tuning a fiddle described as "Italian Key". I wonder if there really was an Italian influence in old-time fiddling?? And references to 'photograph' and 'record' and 'pronounce' probably aren't about cameras and devices (in the late 1800's), but are metaphors for learning by ear.
vrteach - Posted - 02/28/2011: 11:17:57
Fantastic rendition, Stephan. I think I'll see if I can work it out with my mandolin-playing friend.
michael6 - Posted - 02/28/2011: 11:24:00
Nice work!
slc - Posted - 02/28/2011: 11:50:41
Funny coincidence Erich - I was *just* going through my RSS feeds and had checked out yours before coming back and seeing your comment here. Definitely let me know how it works out with your friend - it's really fun on the fiddle and in a session. Once you get into the groove that extra beat in the 3rd part generates a nice whiplash effect back into the A part - not obvious when learning or playing slowly. I had posted a banjo+fiddle version here earlier but have since deleted it - it was just too awful to be 'on record'.
vrteach - Posted - 03/01/2011: 07:01:05
Thank you , thank you! I had a great deal of fun last night with this tune--never played anything like it before. I'm mighty glad you shared it with us.
Mark Johnson - Posted - 03/01/2011: 07:08:12
Hi Stefan... great job indeed, it's a lovely arrangement and well played. Now we need to work on the name... just Hamblin #12 maybe? "Untitled Tune from Page 12 of the Hamblin Collection" is a bit unwieldy.
Kudos,
Mark
vrteach - Posted - 03/01/2011: 07:24:53
I just titled it Hamblen 12, like Stefan did, but maybe Hamblen #12 would be better. Whatever it's called, it's really fun.
Stefan, I just realized that I spelled your name wrong in my first post above, sorry. Wish I could go back and fix it.
By the way, Garry Harrison used to have a series of pages on the Hamblen family, but he had it on the Dear Old Illinois site, which has been closed down. Too bad, he had a series of pictures of the 2-point fiddles that Williamson Hamblen built and the reproductions that Garry had made.
Ah, a search finds that he now has some information about the fiddles on the New Mules site:
newmules.net/cd/instruments.html
but the link to the page formerly on dearoldillinois.com is, of course, broken.
This is a close up (pulled from the New Mules' site) of the Hamblen-style Garry made in 2007, and played on some of the Hamblen tunes included in the New Mules' cd.
Edited by - vrteach on 03/01/2011 07:37:31
slc - Posted - 03/01/2011: 08:02:01
I'm absolutely tickled that it worked out! I'd love to hear a recording of it some time! For this tune the basic melody is pretty simple so it's completely accessible for a beginner, don't you think? One can dress it up of course but that's just for fun and profit, as they say.
Was the MIDI file helpful?
By the way, if a fiddler plays it there's an added slide that works well (which doesn't work so well on the banjo): in the third part, after the slide C -> C# (3-4 on the banjo tab), the fiddle can slide *down* C -> B. Maybe it would work on a fretless banjo, but for mine I bend that B note a bit instead. These tweaks aren't in the original music by the way - more my attempt to differentiate the C part from the A part, to 'justify' it some as a separate part (if that makes sense).
Thanks for that extra info - I had NO idea it was out there, or that people were even aware of the original instruments much less making copies of them. I'll explore that goldmine when I have a little more time.
Totally agree on the title. 'Hamblen #12' it is. Unfortunately I couldn't go back and change the topic title, but at least I was able to upload the mp3 with the new title...
I have another one from the Collection (this one has a name, fortunately) that I just love, but unfortunately I have to jump octaves on the banjo. If I post it I'd *have* to include the fiddle part. Better start practicing...
Still feeling happy :-)
vrteach - Posted - 03/01/2011: 09:51:06
I'll attach the recording that I did last night. It will be interesting to see if I can remember what to do when I next get a banjo in my hands.
I didn't use the midi, but rather learned from your mp3 plus some hints from the tablature. The biggest hint from the tab for me had to do with the structure of the tune, without that it would have taken me much longer to figure out that there IS a C part. At first hearing the tune seems almost structureless.
With some tunes I have to learn them bit-by-bit, and this is one of them. I imported your mp3 into Audacity, and first identified the run-throughs of the tune. I then picked one run-through to serve as my model, and then labelled the parts so that I could easily select them and have them play in a loop. Sometimes I slow it down, but I prefer not to and this time it wasn't necessary.
I'll include a screen shot of my Audacity session that I used to learn this tune. I say "learn" but I may not have gotten the B part right. There is some other tune that I have played that is similar but different, and that has a longer B which I keep on wanting to dive into. For that matter, it might be more generally wrong--I haven't compared it to what I had used as the model! I always wait a while before I do that, dunno why.
Edited by - vrteach on 03/01/2011 09:57:13
slc - Posted - 03/01/2011: 13:55:16
Sounding really good! One thing about that second part - the first phase jumps from the G on the 1st string to the high A note (I found this very awkward at first), then the second time through it 'lingers' on the G note. The third time through goes straight up to the high A and stays there. If I were to play guitar I'd chord it something like this: A A A G A A A A, maybe with a transiting G->A on the second chord. You're totally right about the third part - it IS almost structureless (I love tunes like that, the way they seem to come into focus after a while!). I do a few tricks to make it different which come through pretty clear in the MIDI (I was surprised at how well that turned out, thanks to TablEdit I think), most importantly play the first notes as full quarter notes with little extra stuff (OK, I have chord thing I do but that's it).
I like the way you're using Audacity. A friend of mine uses 'Transcribe!' a lot so I bought it on his recommendation. It's totally great - especially the way it preserves all the markers and slow-downs without messing with the mp3 - but most of the time Audacity would have been fine.
vrteach - Posted - 03/01/2011: 14:14:44
Yeah, I can play the second part just as you do (or very very close) right after I hear you, but when I get around to it in the entire tune my memory is smudged.
Transcribe! does look like fun. And it works on Linux--I guess I'll try the trial download.
slc - Posted - 03/07/2011: 13:03:45
Erich - just saw the update about this tune on your site - so cool you're working it out! I first figured it out on the fiddle btw; reading music is always painfully slow for me, but harder still on the banjo. Maybe I'll post that version (with all the standard apologies) somewhere, for comparison.
From the one session I've been in so far with this tune (with a banjo player), I can tell you it's a LOT of fun to play :-)
I like how you post your works in progress on your site. How people figure out tunes can seem somewhat magical at times, and hearing snapshots of the process is really illuminating.
slc - Posted - 03/07/2011: 23:43:25
OK here's a fiddle version. I worked this tune out (or something like it) first on the fiddle then later on the banjo, so I consider it somewhat more accurate for how I imagine the tune.
I'm somewhat hesitant to post my fiddle playing, but what the hey everybody seems nice here :-)
vrteach - Posted - 03/08/2011: 06:54:22
Cool, I like it. It also helps me hear what I'm missing, if you know what I mean. Are you in standard tuning?
I, of course, started this tune on banjo from your banjo version. But on the weekend I gave it a try on fiddle. I'm probably a permanent novice on the fiddle but I'll post it anyway. I tend to gain some good will with my banjo playing, so I can expend some of that good will with the fiddle.
I'm pleased to hear that what I play is recognisably the same tune you play, but I certainly will be revising. Thanks for posting; this is my current obsession tune.
slc - Posted - 03/09/2011: 09:57:08
Thanks Paul! To me Julianna Johnson is the *perfect* tune. Simple yet interesting, good trance potential, lots of drive, room for improvisation - both with low drones and on high notes. It's been somewhat overplayed out here so I don't hear it in sessions much, but it's one of the few I can start on the fiddle, and I'll sometimes impose it anyway :-)
Erich I think learning how a tune "really" goes from banjo is really hard, unless the banjo player is making a serious effort to play all the melody notes. The banjo is mostly a supporting instrument for the melody (with a few wonderful exceptions of course. Adam Hurt's CD comes to mind) - although it obviously has a unique role separate from, say, the guitar. An extreme comparison and some hyperbole, but learning from banjo is almost like trying to learn from the guitar... Anyway, lots of discussion potential on this topic!
When I learn new tunes from *recordings* at home I'll usually try it on a fiddle, maybe pull out the banjo to get the overall shape (or if there's banjo tab available). In a session of course I always use the banjo since my fiddling can't keep up, and I can improvise while working it out. But I rarely feel like I "got" the tune unless I work it out on the fiddle (which partly explains why I really know so few tunes...)
