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alfiedog - Posted - 01/14/2011: 14:45:44
Hi all, i have put a 5 Star Head on my EPI MB250 about 4 Months ago. The problem i have is i keep having to tighten the Head to get the desired Tone, perhaps once every 3 Weeks. Now this seems a bit Weird its as if the Head has a lot of Stretch in it, and it doesnt seem to have the"CRACK" i used to get when i had a Remo on. The other thing is the Head seems very Thick which i am sure would affect the Tone. Am i right in saying, the Thinner the Head the more Crack, or Rasp you get, and the Thicker the Head the Duller the Sound will become. I am going to get another Head Tommorow so any advise would be much appreciated. Thanks Folks.
impickin5 - Posted - 01/14/2011: 15:52:55
quote:
Originally posted by alfiedog
Hi all, i have put a 5 Star Head on my EPI MB250 about 4 Months ago. The problem i have is i keep having to tighten the Head to get the desired Tone, perhaps once every 3 Weeks. Now this seems a bit Weird its as if the Head has a lot of Stretch in it, and it doesnt seem to have the"CRACK" i used to get when i had a Remo on. The other thing is the Head seems very Thick which i am sure would affect the Tone. Am i right in saying, the Thinner the Head the more Crack, or Rasp you get, and the Thicker the Head the Duller the Sound will become. I am going to get another Head Tommorow so any advise would be much appreciated. Thanks Folks.
My experience has been just what you said. The thinner the head, the more "crack or rasp" you get, and the thicker the head, the "duller" tone you get.
Of course, overall setup has a lot to do with getting the optimum tone you are looking for.
jdog - Posted - 01/14/2011: 15:59:41
Thickness will kill what you call crack. That's the physics of the material. Think about hitting a hollow log vs. a solid log.
Roll Player - Posted - 01/14/2011: 16:07:07
An unfrosted white 5-Star head actually has a lot of crack despite the slightly thicker plastic. Iirc, Ralph Stanley used them on his archtop.
1four5 - Posted - 01/14/2011: 16:17:31
My experience with 5-star heads is that it takes at least 6 month before they get stable, and still keep stretching a little up to the first year.
Old Hickory - Posted - 01/14/2011: 16:23:13
What they said. The 5 Star is a mil or 2 thicker. BUT it can withstand a lot of tightening. I'd think that 4 months is enough time that it shouldn't need retightening, but maybe you you didn't tighten it enough in the first place. So crank 'er up as far as you feel comfortable.
You might also try thinning down your bridge a little. I used to think a thinned bridge and a 5 Star head was a pretty "crack"y combination.
alfiedog - Posted - 01/14/2011: 16:39:04
Setup on the JO is 110% co rods at neutral, kirshner t/p, new s/s lag bolt, shimmed neck, custom bridge, etc, etc. When the Tone slips i tighten the Head and it sounds ok, but after a few weeks it starts to sound dull. Its a medium crown head, so the Hoop is level with the top of the tone ring now. The question is how much stretch is in the head, i am gonna run out of thread on the tension brackets, if i have to carry on doing this. I really am thinking of changing back to a non frosted remo
alfiedog - Posted - 01/14/2011: 17:04:31
I Posted a Vid a couple of Weeks ago of this JO. Someone wanted to know what they sounded like. It explains everything that has been done to it. Its on my HP, and its Man of Constant Sorrow. Lead Break for Todd.
Old Hickory - Posted - 01/15/2011: 13:40:36
quote:
Originally posted by John3
you can bend the flange.
Been there. Done that.
alfiedog - Posted - 01/15/2011: 16:54:55
I put a new Head on today, its another 5 Star, but its half the thickness, and not frosted, and it sounds like a Barking Horse. Its got some real "Crack". I reckon the Frosted 5 Star i had on was a bit of a reject, it was stretching so much my Jo looked like an Archtop, THE TENSION HOOP WAS TIGHTENED THAT MUCH I HAD NO THREAD LEFT ON THE BRACKETS. I did read an article about reject 5 Stars on the Net, something to do with the Frosting.
Hotrodtruck - Posted - 01/15/2011: 17:11:55
A standard American frosted Remo.
YOMV
Mike
Old Hickory - Posted - 01/16/2011: 07:21:31
I tried one of those unfrosted ones briefly in the late 70s-early 80s. It was a bit too sharp for my taste. But that's exactly what it is -- taste. We're all entitled to our own. I always lightly sanded my frosted 5-Stars anyway. (Don't think I mentioned that before) Was told to do that by the man who built my banjo. I dunno. May try the unfrosted type again some day. Glad you found something that works. And, yes, you could have just had a bad one.
Frisco Fred - Posted - 01/16/2011: 08:14:10
Does this mean, if I get me one of those Keith Black superchargers and put it on my wifes Suburban, It will hit 300 MPH?
Or is it possible that combinations are part of the equation?
Old Hickory - Posted - 01/16/2011: 09:08:30
quote:
Originally posted by alfiedog
THE TENSION HOOP WAS TIGHTENED THAT MUCH I HAD NO THREAD LEFT ON THE BRACKETS.
So now that that head's off the banjo, can you look at the mounting band really closely to see if the head is pulled out or torn at all? I don't see how the a medium crown head could be tightened with the hoop down that far and still sound or be loose unless there's a physical problem somewhere.
Edited by - Old Hickory on 01/16/2011 09:08:58
alfiedog - Posted - 01/16/2011: 09:38:39
No the Head was supposed to be a Frosted 5 Star, but it didnt have the Logo on. As you must know this type of head is attached to the Tension Band a lot different then a Remo is, a Remo is just bonded into the slot in the Band, so its real easy, to pull out if you over tighten it. No this Head appears to have stretched to so the Crown height is nearly twice its original depth.
Old Hickory - Posted - 01/16/2011: 09:43:53
Yes. Mounting band on a Remo is an epoxy-filled U-channel. 5-Star, First Quality and other Ludwig heads have a crimped band that grips the head.
I've heard their thicker mylar could take a lot of stretching. Your case is ridiculous!
alfiedog - Posted - 01/16/2011: 10:18:08
Thats exactly why i have replaced it. I dont know how far it would have stretched, before it stabalized, but it was very thick, and a lot heavier then the new non frosted Head i have replaced it with.
The Pope - Posted - 01/16/2011: 10:35:28
Frisco Fred...
Only if you're running 100% nitro!
steve davis - Posted - 01/16/2011: 10:57:19
I never tighten my Remo head enough to pull it out of its mounting.
G# to A head tension will not hurt a head or flange.
Frisco Fred - Posted - 01/16/2011: 13:17:34
quote:
Originally posted by The Pope
Frisco Fred...
Only if you're running 100% nitro!
Well, even if I could get 98% nitro, the only thing that would be going 300 MPH would be the Suburban's crankshaft leaving the county.
alfiedog - Posted - 01/16/2011: 13:24:51
I have only had 1 Remo Head pop out of its Flange when i tightened it. It was on my Fender which i no longer own, and it was the Head that came with the JO, it was one of the Remos that doesnt say USA on it, so i presume it was an Asian Cheap Job. It came out of the Flange before the Head was anywhere near tight. But i did rescue it by removing the Flange completely then putting Epoxy Resin in the Groove re-fitted the Head, and Crimped it all the way round with my small Bench Vice. That Head was fantastic, i really tightened it and it Howled.
Tomcat - Posted - 01/24/2011: 11:05:51
The five star takes awhile to strerch out but when it does you can tighten it enough to park a truck on it, and it gives as much crack as you'll ever want.
Emiel - Posted - 01/24/2011: 12:34:45
quote:
Originally posted by Tomcat
The five star takes awhile to strerch out but when it does you can tighten it enough to park a truck on it, and it gives as much crack as you'll ever want.
Maybe enough crack, but the Remo top-frosted has more pop than the Ludwig (Five Star) top-frosted (which has a bigger bass response).
