Slingerland - Posted - 10/29/2010:  09:44:33

I am the new owner of a Dayton banjo uke. Being a Ohioan, it is a bit more exciting.

Besides this banjo uke I have only seen one other made by Dayton----at this site.

eaglemusicshop.com/details1.as...banjo.htm

Mine is basically the same, only has a resonator. I know the basic Dayton Banjo Co. story and have seen tenors, 5 strings, mandolin banjos, and mandolins made by them. Has anyone seen other examples of their banjo ukes?

I will post pictures of mine when it comes in.

Thanks for the help!

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/29/2010:  12:05:02

If they moved to Sioux City, Iowa in 1922, why does the one in your link say Dayton, Ohio when it's circa 1930? They must have just opened a new production facility in Iowa and not moved all operations. Both are within one day rail travel (early 20th century) from Chicago. Perhaps it's only a corporate address and not the city of Mfg.


I just noticed also that they changed their name from Dayton Stringed Instrument Co. to Dayton Banjo co. in 1920. The plate on the one in the link says Dayton Stringed Instrument Co.. Does that make the instrument pre-1920 or did they continue using the tags with the old name?


Other than the tension hoop with holes for the hooks, it looks an awful lot like an Unknown maker Banjo Uke I recently purchased. Same peg-head shape, same peg-head veneer, same ebony nut etc. I'd be curious to know how the tension hoop is made, meaning a solid piece or one that was riveted under the tail-piece.

Edited by - TwoTrax on 10/29/2010 12:14:36

Unknown Banjo Ukulele

Slingerland - Posted - 10/29/2010:  12:31:43

Thanks for the response.

I bet that the shop on the link I had posted uses 1930 as an estimate. That may resolve your question, but maybe not. Dayton rim construction was usually a block technique, but I am not sure about the ukes.

Your banjo looks like a Slingerland to me....can I see a photo of the back?

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/29/2010:  13:04:33

Paul,

I just read this (3rd paragraph in particular):

Dayton banjos were designed and patented in October 1920 by Charles B. Rauch who
established the Dayton String Instrument Co., in Dayton, Ohio, U.S.A. and was running a
successful teaching business there and conducted the Dayton Mandolin Club. In addition
to banjos, Rauch made and sold most of the fretted instruments.

In 1922 the Dayton range of banjos was improved by having the hoops made of curly and
blrds’-eye maple.

Early in 1923 the company moved to Sioux City, Iowa, where Rauch launched the "New
Construction Dayton Banjos"; which had 12" hoops and were fitted with a round metal
perchpole and an extension fingerboard. Instead of the normal banjo pegs they were fitted
with machine heads,a’la’ guitar.
An advertisement of the time mentions a "fine line of tenor-banjos, mandolin-banjos,
guitar-banjos, ’cello--banjos and ukulele-banjos" in this NEW construction".

Here's the back pics plus one as comparrison to an S-V....(I thought Slingerland too, but unsure):

Unknown Banjo Uke & Stromberg-Voisinet Banjo Uke

Unknown Banjo Ukulele

Unknown Banjo Ukulele

Unknown Banjo Ukulele

Slingerland - Posted - 10/29/2010:  13:20:52

Interesting...My uke has an extended fingerboard and is marked on the peghead "The Dayton". I bought it with only seeing one small photograph of it. Either way, I will be surprised when it comes in.

I don't think yours is a Slingerland. The neck and heel don't look like any Slingerlands I have seen. Nice banjo either way!

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/29/2010:  13:34:57

Here is another interesting item I found. I found it in some genealogy and it says it may have come from a Xenia, Ohio newspaper....no definite date but estimate very early 20th century. Please note the entertainers (Gibson Mandolin Club) and guests (Chas. B Rauch).

ARTICLE BELOW:


A Genuine Surprise.

A pleasant and complete surprise was given Chas. W. Adams Thursday evening at his home, 25 Hershey street, when a number of friends gathered in honor of his birthday and also in honor of Miss Adele J. Duval, a visiting cousin from Kansas. Music by the Gibson Mandolin Club, games and refreshments were among the pleasures of the evening. Those present were, Miss Ilo Crider, Miss Frances Hewitt, Miss Grace Baker, Miss Esther Waymire, Miss Isabelle Wolf, Miss Grace Defenderfer, Miss Bertha Randall, Miss Viola Hicks, Miss Bessie Wolf, Miss Elsie Clemmer, Miss Carrie Guckes, Miss Estella Kilo, Misses Edna and Eleanor North way, Mrs. H. G. Henley and Lucile Henley, Mr. and Mrs. Louie Adams and son, Adelbert Adams, Mr. and Mrs. Chas. B. Rauch, Harry E. Bausman, Chester Engle, Thomas J. Henley, Berlin Hous, Byron Ricketts, E.C. Maeder, F.E. Gard, M.H. Albyn, Jno. F. Kilmer, C. F. Driehurst, James F. McGrew, Thomas Whelan, Charleton S. Baker, Dan Ehrhart and Will Potsmith.

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/29/2010:  13:44:03

Chas B. Rauch also shows up in the 1908 "Iron Molders Journal" under "Dayton, Ohio Chapter".

Slingerland - Posted - 10/29/2010:  13:58:39

Great stuff...thanks for sharing. Xenia is close to Dayton.

My banjo uke was found outside Chicago. Close proximity to both Dayton and Sioux City.

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/29/2010:  14:04:25

<<I don't think yours is a Slingerland. The neck and heel don't look like any Slingerlands I have seen. Nice banjo either way!>>

Thanks, but the pictures are deceptive. It's NOT worth what I have into it. Sure, it's a playable piece but it never was top of the line. In fact it was probably bottom of the line selling for $3 or less. It's better now than when it was new. That took some work that they didn't bother with at the factory. It was cheaply made with parts from many makers. The only decent part of it is the neck although it was never sanded smooth when originally finished. I had to replace the tuners and 2 frets, that don't match the rest but at least they're usable (I used mandolin fret wire, smallest I could find). I had no worries of de-valuing it.

Slingerland - Posted - 10/29/2010:  14:12:20

I've got a half dozen or so of those "cheap" ukes. I think they are under rated. I used to be able to pick them up real cheap, but price prices are pretty high right now.

beezaboy - Posted - 10/29/2010:  17:19:40

FWIW here are two Dayton ads from the Cadenza (microfilm).
The one with crossed banjo mandolins is May 1923.
The one with the crossed tenors is July 1923.
Maybe something in there to add to the research.

Cadenza May 1923

Cadenza July 1923

Slingerland - Posted - 10/29/2010:  19:20:33

Thanks, John.

I think mine is pre- Sioux City, based on the style of tuners.

I wonder how many banjos they sold?

Here is a Dayton banjo-mandolin on eBay. Notice the extended fingerboard as indicating the "new" Dayton. The serial number is 739 and the label says Dayton, Ohio.

I think I am going to start documenting a serial number list and info for Dayton banjos. Like John does for the orpheums, if someone hasn't done it already.

Slingerland - Posted - 10/29/2010:  20:05:15

So I have recorded all of the Dayton made instruments I know of so far...which is 12. I've contacting 2 Hangout members directly and plan on contacting John Bernunzio, because I know he has sold at least 1 in recent memory.

I am collecting all possible data I can for each instrument. I hope to track the evolution of the instrument production. I don't think anyone has done this yet for Dayton.

Any contributions anyone has is welcome and appreciated! I will post a running list in the near future.

Edited by - Slingerland on 10/29/2010 22:29:28

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/29/2010:  22:18:52

John and Paul,

The address in the ad says "General Sales Office, Sioux City, Iowa". Maybe the move to Sioux City was only the "General Sales Office"?

Tim

Slingerland - Posted - 10/29/2010:  22:26:34

Thanks! I had that thought as well, but who knows.

Edited by - Slingerland on 10/29/2010 22:26:51

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/29/2010:  23:25:25

Paul,

So far I've counted seventeen (17) listed below:

Yours and the one in the link plus An A Mandolin and a B Mandolin owned by Ann & Phil Case don't know #s.

Banjo Mandolin #1506

Five String banjo (26 frets) #809

Style B Mandolin #1124

Style B Mandolin #1125

Style B Mandolin #1135

Style B Mandolin #1134

Style A Mandolin #384

1912? Banjo Guitar #590

Banjo Mandolin #739 on ebay now

4 String Tenor #917

Mandolin #138

Mandola #1046

Dayton Heart Mandolin #???

Edited by - TwoTrax on 10/30/2010 00:07:13

Slingerland - Posted - 10/30/2010:  03:10:00

Tim-thanks for the help!

I believe that Phil Case's are 138 (style a) and 1134 (style b)

source...mandolincafe.com/forum/showthr...-Mandolin

I did not record the guitar/ heart guitar on that link because I don't have serial number information for them

Can you please tell me your source for-

917 (I think I know where you got it, but not sure)
590
1135

I have the rest from your list.

Thanks very much for the help!

Edited by - Slingerland on 10/30/2010 03:21:22

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/30/2010:  11:11:17

I'll go back in my history and dig up those links for you. Going to be gone most of the day but will make every effort to do that later tonight.

Slingerland - Posted - 10/30/2010:  11:13:56

Thanks...I know where you got 917, but not 590 or 1135.

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/30/2010:  11:24:48

#590 vintageinstruments.com/museum/...page.html

Just after a quick search. Also found this one but can't make out the number; mandolincafe.com/forum/attachm...237770013


Still have to find 1135..................it was 3 AM this morning when I found it but haven't located it yet in my history, just need to dif deeper.

Style B Mandolin #48 vintageinstruments.com/photos/...label.jpg

Edited by - TwoTrax on 10/30/2010 11:50:18

Slingerland - Posted - 10/30/2010:  11:37:15

Thanks for 509.

I found that mandola and read the numbers as 301. Does that look right?

Slingerland - Posted - 10/30/2010:  11:37:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by Slingerland

Thanks for 590.

I found that mandola and read the numbers as 301. Does that look right?

---

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/30/2010:  11:56:34

Could be 301 I couldn't be sure.....I am going now but will be back 2nite.

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/30/2010:  16:23:28

I've stumped myself as to where #1135 came from...maybe it's the dreaded oldtimers. So that one can't yet be verified.

I found a mention of a banjo #989 here on BHO at banjohangout.org/archive/114220

Did you see the #48 I mentioned?

Slingerland - Posted - 10/30/2010:  20:26:50

Thanks for 989. I've got 48.

Thanks!

gary schattl - Posted - 10/30/2010:  23:03:37

I have a Dayton 11 7/8 " pot # 420.It originally had a 17 fret tenor neck(which I still have) It just says THE DAYTON on the peghead.I have not deceided what inlays to use for the fretboard asd I haven't seen any besides dots.I will duplicate the Dayton logo for the peghead.When I got it ,the metal heel cap was missing and I could not find one so I threaded the new neck for the brass dowell and it fits very well and looks original although it still looks original.I have all the parts except for 1 hook and nut but I think it is a generic style of the day and can be found when I get ready to complete it.More pictures on my home page under gary schattl dayton banjo project

Slingerland - Posted - 10/31/2010:  05:37:57

Thanks for getting back to me Gary. I've added it to the list! Does the metal tag say Chas. B Rauch? Or does it day Dayton String Instrument Co.? With this serial number, I bet it says Chas. B. Rauch.

Edited by - Slingerland on 10/31/2010 05:39:32

DENNISNDODIE - Posted - 10/31/2010:  06:09:47

I have a 4 string tenor with the fingerboard that extends over the head the metal plate inside the block rim says The Dayton mfd by Chas B Rauch no. 971 Dayton Ohio. It has a metal hoop tone ring the heal has a metal plate on the bottom,one co ordinator rod,24 brackets, friction pegs uses a 1 inch bridge. The fingerboard is rosewood and also very thick the binding is broken. It sounds ok but would like to put a brass tone ring on it. My wifes boss gave it to me after his brother left it to him knowing Im a banjo nut. Dennis

Slingerland - Posted - 10/31/2010:  06:18:23

Thanks Dennis!

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/31/2010:  17:37:06

Sorry Paul, the elusive #1135 seems to be some kind of game my mind was playing at 3 AM. I can't find it again although when I did I thought it coincidental at the time, it fit right in there with #1124 & #1125 & #1134..

By the way with #1124 and it's mate, the website stated they were consecutively numbered, but did it actually say the other was #1125? Or could it be #1123?

I have found mentions of people owning Dayton instruments but none that Identified the instrument specifically or its serial number. You'd have to contact the individuals if you could even track them down. Some mentions were 5 or 6 years old. And you'd have to join a handful of forums just to see if those members are still active.

gary schattl - Posted - 10/31/2010:  17:51:23

If anyone has an extra metal heel cap,I have a neck for it and would like to buy it.

Slingerland - Posted - 10/31/2010:  17:57:13

Tim- I appreciate your continued support in the progress. You will be definitely be cited with special thanks on the database.

1135- I will cross it off the list for the time being.

1124 and 1125- I've contact Mr. Levinger and it is 1125.

I am a member at Mandolin Cafe and am waiting for responses there.

I have contacted several of the big dealers, who all were more than willing to cooperate. Only problem is that no one has had all that many of them.

I've contacted Jim Bollman who gave me a serial number for a 5 string that sold on ebay that I didn't have. He had a banjo mandolin, but part of the serial number was not legible (so I won't include it in the list). He pointed me in the direction of the Roy Acuff collection who apparently has a couple Dayton instruments.

Bob Smakula is putting me in touch with someone here in Ohio who owns one. He also pointed me in the direction of Phil Case (who I already have documented), but contacted anyway.

Elderly had a banjo rim that they had the sn for. They also had a banjo mandolin, but no serial number (not on the list). They did have a heart ukulele that I recorded (no sn though). The rarity of that item I felt deserved to be included. I included the heart guitar posted in a mandolin cafe post as well under the same logic.

Gruhn had a Style A mandolin that I recorded.

I am waiting to hear back from several other dealers.

I am up to 21 serial numbers plus 2 other instruments (the heart uke and heart guitar). I also listed the Premier guitar that is on eBay.

TwoTrax - Posted - 10/31/2010:  23:14:28

You should take a look a the 1920 census. I couldn't find it online for free but, Ancestry.com will let you have it for $. Charles Rauch is in there, I just don't have access to the whole doc. You would find out his occupation and employer if any and if he had any employees.


In the census I believe the town is listed as Montgomery.

I found this, I believe this to be the correct person but the census can confirm or deny this; Charles Rauch was born on 28 January 1867 in Germany. He married Johanna Schmidt circa 1899. Charles Rauch and Johanna Rauch appeared with Herman George Rauch (son) in the census of 12 January 1920 at 1330 Carlisle Ave, Dayton, Montgomery, Ohio, USA. Charles Rauch died on 18 March 1927 at Dayton, Montgomery, Ohio, USA, at age 60.

It seems his instruments are tagged in different ways, i.e. The Dayton by Chas B Rauch or Dayton String Instrument Co, etc. That's why it may be beneficial to investigate the man and his movements and business ventures. Did he make for others? Where did he learn his trade? Where were they sold? Where are they now?...........Lot's of questions on the front end of any investigation.

He was the founder of the Dayton Mandolin Orchestra, but where did that talent come from? Dayton Historical Societies? Old Dayton Business Directories? Dayton Newspaper microfilms? Dayton Museums? Montgomery County resources, genealogy groups, etc. Sorry, I'm a turn every stone kind of person when I need to know something.

Slingerland - Posted - 11/01/2010:  05:29:23

Thanks for the advice! I will eventually pursue those avenues.

On one of the patent documents for Rauch, one of the witnesses is listed as "Lucille Rauch". I did some research, but couldn't find any info about her.

I have free access to the 1920 census, I just have to get to the historical society to access it.

TwoTrax - Posted - 11/01/2010:  11:27:39

Paul, Thanks for the name Lucille........The Charles Rauch in my last post is not the correct person.

Chas B Rauch was born abt. 1883 in Ohio. In the 1920 census he is listed as 47 y.o. and born about 1883. Lucille was his wife aged 41 y.o. Two unrelated females also resided with them, Gladys Hess 22 y.o. and Myrtle Fogle 33 y.o. (boarders possibly).

CITED SOURCE: beta.familysearch.org/s/record...VNk8%253D

Edited by - TwoTrax on 11/01/2010 11:29:22

Slingerland - Posted - 11/01/2010:  12:56:21

Great! Thanks so much for the link!

Slingerland - Posted - 11/01/2010:  12:56:22

Great! Thanks so much for the link!

Oh, my banjo uke came in today. sn 3072- by far the highest sn so far. It is also sweet as can be.

Edited by - Slingerland on 11/01/2010 13:19:29

TwoTrax - Posted - 11/03/2010:  12:18:49

2 days and no pics? I'm dying to see it.

Slingerland - Posted - 11/03/2010:  13:07:54

Lol...sorry. I have pics on my camera, which for some reason is not working. I just shipped the banjo off to Dan Knowles for some minor repairs. I do a lot of restoration myself, but for this, I decided to let a pro handle it.

Here is the photo I bought it from.



It is very heavy for its size. I think it is going to sound nice when it is playable. This banjo has the highest serial number recorded so far (3072) and is 1 of 2 banjo ukes documented. I paid $220 shipped for this uke and a ca. 1905-115 Washburn potato bug mandolin.

Edited by - Slingerland on 11/03/2010 13:09:34

TwoTrax - Posted - 11/03/2010:  22:01:38

Thanks Paul.

It reminds me of the high end names like Ludwig and Lange. That's one heck of a deal. How's the mando? Any serious issues?

Slingerland - Posted - 11/04/2010:  04:54:27

Yeah..It is a style 225, which is sort of middle of the road for Washburn. It has a repaired crack in the back and some small cracks in the top. I'm not sure what I want to do with it yet.

Slingerland - Posted - 11/04/2010:  18:21:24

Considering that my house is overflowing with instruments, I decided to list it on eBay. I have had 100+ instruments go through my hands this year.

shop.ebay.com/pdolce/m.html?_n...sid=p3686

beezaboy - Posted - 01/25/2011:  04:45:02

Dayton 764 is on ebay.
cgi.ebay.com/Ca-1910-DAYTON-Ba...e6129bb60

Reminded me about the impression I had of the one I owned - Skinny necks.