gmohrs - Posted - 10/22/2010:  22:40:15

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What are they exactly? What purpose do they serve other than just being compact? The most obvious difference is the pot size, as far as I can tell. Is there a certain scale size that they tend to conform to? Are they tuned like a full size banjo or are they tuned to a higher register? And lastly, how can they sound? Good enough for regular general play or is it just the right choice when you are looking to save some space?

Sultans of Claw - Posted - 10/23/2010:  06:58:09

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Hi, Greg, I don't have the answers to all of your questions, but I can tell you about my Saga pony.

It was my first banjo, and probably not the best first choice for an absolute novice like myself setting out to teach himself to play without a teacher, but hey, it was within driving distance so I could check it out in person and the price was right!

It has a full size pot and a C scale neck. When I first got it I tried to play it in standard G, but it just didn't sound right, but when I tuned it up to an open C, it sounded much happier. Moving on to Nylgut Minstrel strings added further to what I think is its intrinsic nature. One of Don New's Fir Spillway Dam Bridges has opened the higher playing positions to exploration and makes it sound as good as it ever has in my hands.

It is what I call my "away" banjo, as it stays in another home in another city and saves me from carrying a banjo back and forth -- but it would be easy to travel with.

In fact, it's with me this morning, so comfortable to sit on the sofa and play; it always seems to whisper to me that we don't spend enough time together, and that I really should take it back home!

Sound is always hard to describe, but I would call it dry, crisp and raspy, perfect for some moods and tunes, but probably one that is best heard as a solo instrument.

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Edited by - Sultans of Claw on 10/23/2010 06:59:39

banjered - Posted - 10/23/2010:  09:28:15

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It's like a regular bajo with a capo thrown across the fifth fret so the gDGBD goes up to cGCEG. I like it because I like to play the regular G pattern for songs but the pitch of C is much better for my voice. Though the banjo is pitched five frets up, I sing in a lower pitch.

I got my Saga10P from Janet Davis who for an extra 80 dollars or so will put on better tuners. I also put on a Renaissance head and a moon bridge and nylgut classicals. As such it is a very solid instrument that I am quite pleased with. TC

deuceswilde - Posted - 10/23/2010:  15:06:27

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I don't know where the name "pony banjo" comes from, we don't call our banjos "horse banjos."

S. S. Stewart invented the Banjeaurine in the late 19th century, a full description on its design and use can be read in The Banjo Philosophically.

Here is one in proper use played by Carl Anderton, I'm on the regulation banjo.

youtube.com/watch?v=F3nqI2fP9hI

Saw VI

Dan Gellert - Posted - 10/24/2010:  13:42:02

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AFAIK, during the 19th c., "pony banjo" referred to the banjo analogue of a 1/2-size violin, with a pot a couple of inches smaller than standard and a neck proportioned to match (not as short a scale as the Saga). They were made from well before the banjo orchestra era, and I believe were primarily intended as standard-pitch banjos for small players.

The Saga 10P, and similar "travel" banjos, which are 5-stringers with tenor-banjo-length scale, are NOT pony banjos in that sense, but are precisely a re-invention of the banjeaurine (a 5-stringer tuned a fourth higher than the standard).

Sultans of Claw - Posted - 10/24/2010:  20:00:19

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Is it just my eyes playing tricks on me, or are the pots on the old banjeaurines larger than regulation size?

Thanks for the link, Joel!

deuceswilde - Posted - 10/24/2010:  21:45:57

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sultans of Claw

Is it just my eyes playing tricks on me, or are the pots on the old banjeaurines larger than regulation size?

Thanks for the link, Joel!

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The early versions that Stewart made were large with fingerboard extensions. He later made a 11" version, but continued production of the older style. Carl's was made in the mid 1890s.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 10/25/2010:  14:24:18

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Unfortunately all the production pony banjos made today come out of one of the worst Chinese plants. The necks are not shaped correctly for a banjo and the cheezy tension hoops have a quarter inch high sharp lip around the rim - nearly cut my arm off.

I sent my Saga pony back to Elderly less than an hour after receiving it. I bought it based on seeing an older Korean Saga pony at a festival - I was about as disappointed as one can get. I was just a year or so too late.

gmohrs - Posted - 10/25/2010:  19:51:33

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Just saw this in the classifieds
banjohangout.org/classified/17940
Opinions?

deuceswilde - Posted - 10/25/2010:  20:03:03

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quote:

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Originally posted by gmohrs

Just saw this in the classifieds
banjohangout.org/classified/17940
Opinions?

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This was intended to be tuned to concert pitch, not a fourth higher.

$800 seems kind of high judging from the wire string damage. These "Dobson" banjos were made "for the trade" in the Buckbee factory and quality is hit and miss. There is a new fad loosely based on a Dobson patent going on now, so these banjos are cool.

At that price, I'd have to have it in my hands first.

gmohrs - Posted - 10/25/2010:  20:28:38

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Thanks Dueces. Forgive my ignorance, but I'm assuming "concert pitch" would just be "standard" tuning (whatever that happens to be)? What did you see that led you to determine the string damage?

deuceswilde - Posted - 10/25/2010:  21:29:28

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Yep, that would be standard tuning.

Look at how high the strings are- the neck has been "sprung." Many of these Buckbees have one piece walnut necks, that is to say, the neck and dowel are of the same piece of wood.



The tailpiece has been stretched out. Anytime you see an add for a 1900 or earlier banjo that says "tailpiece missing," that means that it was broken by wire strings at one time.



I could be wrong about this one, but it looks like the fifth peg has been broken out and the split wood shoddily patched.



Nevertheless, there is something going on with that fifth peg-



It also looks as if some kind of lacquer has been applied to the fingerboard. In fact, the whole neck looks glossy, like it has been sprayed as well.


Also excessive wear to the frets, something that is not normally caused with gut strings.

Sultans of Claw - Posted - 10/26/2010:  06:23:13

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quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

Unfortunately all the production pony banjos made today come out of one of the worst Chinese plants.

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Deering makes one: deeringbanjos.com/goodtime-parlor

banjered - Posted - 10/26/2010:  09:52:49

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I wondered if Woodchuck and other(?) might claim that the Saga10P was bascially a bunch of crap but as I said previously:


I got my Saga10P from Janet Davis who for an extra 80 dollars or so will put on better tuners. I also put on a Renaissance head and a moon bridge and nylgut classicals. As such it is a very solid instrument that I am quite pleased with. TC

I've had this banjo for over a year now with no major problems in its basic structure. But I did replace the tuners, strings, head, fifth string pip and put a Rickard brass no-knott for the tail piece. So if you don't mind doing all that work on your own banjo, get the Saga 10P. Out of the box they indeed do have quality control issues which I hope they fix soon. The Korean model was more solid, thicker rim, better tension hoop but had similar flaws. All in all, I prefer the Chinese model with its thinner 1/4" rim as compared to the Korean 5/8" rim, better tone. FWIW &YMMV. TC

Sultans of Claw - Posted - 10/26/2010:  10:19:23

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I've got one of the Korean models, but yeah, I could see the potential for sound improvement with a thinner rim. I am very pleased with the neck, though. I did go with 5 Star pegs and it already had a replacement hoop and brackets when I bought it. I would like to get one of Bill's fine looking tailpieces and try a Ren head as well.

trapdoor2 - Posted - 10/26/2010:  11:43:40

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quote:

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Originally posted by deuceswilde

I don't know where the name "pony banjo" comes from, we don't call our banjos "horse banjos."

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Stewart used the "horse" metaphor to great effect...cf. "Special Thoroughbred".

I don't have my catalog handy but I think Stewart introduced his "Pony Concert Banjo" in the mid 1890's mugwumps.com/stewart/sss_pony.jpg

It was to be tuned dGDFA, oddly (now that I think about it), an octave higher than "Briggs tuning".

"pony", per se, has always indicated a diminutive form...the designation seems natural to me.

deuceswilde - Posted - 10/26/2010:  15:09:27

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I was being cute.