mojo_monk - Posted - 03/19/2010:  10:01:38

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So I've begun putting together a blog dedicated to sharing relatively simple 2 finger thumb-lead arrangements of songs/tunes for those who may be interested. Just like my playing, it's in its "infant stage" so I'm looking for some feedback before I get ahead of myself. I've noticed some interest in the style and figured, why not (humbly) try to fill the niche?. Ultimately, I hope it becomes a place where folks can share their own arrangements as well (with full credit given of course).

As it stands, I've posted three tabs (hosted off-site), with plans of eventually posting .pdf and .mp3 versions as well. The tabs were made using TablEdit in the absence of other options.

Any and all comments/suggestions/pious indignation are welcome and appreciated.

Now [gulp!] for the unveiling: 2ftlbanjer.wordpress.com/

-Sean

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Edited by - mojo_monk on 03/19/2010 10:02:39

Adam Kiesling - Posted - 03/19/2010:  10:12:56

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Hey Sean

Looks great! I've lately been messing around with thumb-lead myself, and I think your blog will be a nice resource.

Adam

ekistl - Posted - 03/19/2010:  10:20:07

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Looks very good. I like it. Nice presentation, tasteful graphics, interesting information. Well done so far.

mojo_monk - Posted - 03/19/2010:  10:33:50

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Thanks fellas!

stevel - Posted - 03/19/2010:  10:34:28

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yeah, looks great. i've just ventured into this style a few months ago.

i'm assuming that's a picture of roscoe holcomb on the homepage?

mojo_monk - Posted - 03/19/2010:  10:39:33

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quote:

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Originally posted by stevel


i'm assuming that's a picture of roscoe holcomb on the homepage?

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It is!

For now it seems to work, but I've got a few things in mind...

ramjo - Posted - 03/19/2010:  10:55:56

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Looks great Sean. I'm sure this blog will help you fulfill some of your grad course credits, and that your time spent there has only a positive impact on your studies. ;-)

I always thought that one day I'd try to overcome my phobia of finger-style banjo and attempt re-wire my neurons to accomplish something like cripple creek that way. Maybe visiting your interesting site will pull me in.

jsmapr1 - Posted - 03/19/2010:  11:58:52

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Looks good. One quick suggestion. It wasn't obvious, to me at least, that you need to click on the song title to get the download. I thought that link was just the post title.

mojo_monk - Posted - 03/19/2010:  13:36:57

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quote:

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Originally posted by ramjo

Looks great Sean. I'm sure this blog will help you fulfill some of your grad course credits, and that your time spent there has only a positive impact on your studies. ;-)

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doh! BUSTED!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by jsmapr1

It wasn't obvious, to me at least, that you need to click on the song title to get the download. I thought that link was just the post title.

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Good call...I can definitely see how that could cause confusion. I'm on it.

-Sean

g-hog - Posted - 03/19/2010:  14:41:57

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Thanks... looks great!

derwood400 - Posted - 03/19/2010:  17:07:27

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This is really great Sean. Thanks so much.

omiimii - Posted - 03/19/2010:  17:23:27

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this is awesome! i love thumb lead playing and there isn't enough info
out there! you should try to get hunter robertson to tab out b.f. shelton's
darling cora for you. it's a really great and weird thumb lead piece.

i now have a new website to add to my small list of favorties (the bho
obviously tops that list) from one of my favorite posters! thanks!

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 03/19/2010:  18:05:29

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Even though I really don't use tabs, inasmuch as I like to come up with my own versions of anything I play...usually not all that accurate from a melody point of view. (I think I tend to conceive of melodies as bass lines, that I embellish.)

However, I am a long time two finger-picker and thumb lead guy (including sometimes in claw-hammer style), so I think this is a really nice idea, and I'm really glad to see you doing it.

I don't quite understand how banjo playing became so compartmentalized into the claw-hammer/bluegrass dichotomy...there are so many other great ways to play the instrument...like two finger picking!

Personally, the longer I've been playing, the more I'm finding myself sliding between various styles and techniques in the same song for different emphasis and greater dynamics. When I first tried to do that it was a real challenge to go back and forth between claw-hammer and finger-picking...especially thumb-lead finger-picking. But now my hand seems to operate with a mind of its own, and sometimes I have to concentrate on not switching styles.

chip arnold - Posted - 03/19/2010:  18:08:15

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Hi Sean, I like your tabs. I have a (small) suggestion. On Bald Headed.... the 7th and 15th measures switch to index lead and use a 2nd string hammer to buy the 1/8 of a beat needed to make the switch and that works well. But then in the next measure you're going back to thumb lead with a thumb note on the 2nd string. This leaves you having to play two 1/8 notes in a row with your thumb which is all but impossible at speed. (Last note in the I lead measure & 1st note in the T lead measure) But if the first note of the 8th and 16th measures is played as an index note, you can still make the 1/4 note pinch which follows giving you the whole 1/4 beat of the pinch to switch back to T lead.

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 03/19/2010:  18:33:49

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By the way, that link you provide to the history of Cripple Creek sure is an interesting site...I found it once before by accident...I'm glad to run into it again, and just spent the better part of the evning reading all kinds of interesting stuff. Now I gotta play me some banjer!

stevel - Posted - 03/19/2010:  20:16:21

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quote:

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Originally posted by omiimii

this is awesome! i love thumb lead playing and there isn't enough info
out there! you should try to get hunter robertson to tab out b.f. shelton's
darling cora for you. it's a really great and weird thumb lead piece.

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Pete Seeger has tab for B.F. Shelton's Darling Corey in thumb lead style using the tuning f#-DF#AD in his book "How to play the 5 string Banjo". Adapting it to g-CGCC isn't that hard if you know the melody. I play this song in the g-CGCC tuning in clawhammer style, but often use a thumb lead style for the intro.

just an fyi.....

Bisbonian - Posted - 03/19/2010:  22:08:44

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Thank you, Sean!

mojo_monk - Posted - 03/20/2010:  05:06:50

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@ Chip: I've been messing around with your suggestions (thanks, by the way) and gotta say that while I see your point about all of the thumbs in those 2 measures, I don't find them to be too difficult. I could possibly include an alternate pattern as an addendum at the end of the tab for those who might find the using the index more helpful. Good call.

@ Marc: glad you enjoyed that site. All of that information sure is insightful, but how about those wild paintings?! I Dali took inspiration from murder ballads, I think he would've developed a similar style

@ stevel: the book has been requested from the library. Thanks for the lead.

@ everybody else: thanks so much for the feedback! Looks like I'm moving in the right direction...

-Sean

stevel - Posted - 03/20/2010:  06:54:55

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Sean- there are also a fair number of 2-finger thumb lead tunes in Art Rosenbaum's - Old Time Mountain Banjo (now out of print) if you're looking for more material.

not sure if your library has it or not. but i purchased a copy of it from AbeBooks. (sp?). it was a little pricey, but my copy is in near mint condition, and the book is considered one of the "must haves" for old time banjo instruction.

cheers.

mojo_monk - Posted - 03/20/2010:  07:32:17

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quote:

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Originally posted by stevel

Sean- there are also a fair number of 2-finger thumb lead tunes in Art Rosenbaum's - Old Time Mountain Banjo (now out of print) if you're looking for more material.

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That is the book that got me into this whole mess!!!

The basic picking patterns I include in the section of the blog titled "About the Style" are straight outta Rosenbaum's book. I've thought about running his 2FTL arrangements through TablEdit, but am having some reservations about ripping them off note for note. I'll see what I can do as I definitely think his tabs (or even the gist of them) would be a great addition to the site.

- Sean

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 03/20/2010:  07:34:02

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quote:

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Originally posted by stevel

Sean- there are also a fair number of 2-finger thumb lead tunes in Art Rosenbaum's - Old Time Mountain Banjo (now out of print) if you're looking for more material.

not sure if your library has it or not. but i purchased a copy of it from AbeBooks. (sp?). it was a little pricey, but my copy is in near mint condition, and the book is considered one of the "must haves" for old time banjo instruction.

cheers.

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Old Time Mountain Banjo is out of print? Quick someone, reprint it...it's a fantastic book...It opened up the whole world of old time banjo for me (I got it when it first came out!).

mojo_monk - Posted - 03/20/2010:  07:39:34

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quote:

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Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg

Old Time Mountain Banjo is out of print? Quick someone, reprint it...it's a fantastic book...It opened up the whole world of old time banjo for me (I got it when it first came out!).

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There was a three-page discussion about this very subject a couple months ago:banjohangout.org/forum/topic.a...ichpage=1

- Sean

Dan N - Posted - 03/20/2010:  08:14:18

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That's a nice web site and a great idea.

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 03/20/2010:  22:28:25

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About Cripple Creek-My wifes mother was born & raised in Wayne, West Virginia. Wayne is sort of a misnomer though, as it was the nearest town. They lived near Miller's Fork and Beech Fork. When I was dating my wife, Ma asked if I could play Hipple Creek. She said "You cain't be a banjo picker if you cain't play Hipple Creek." I told her I could play Cripple Creek, and asked if it was the same tune. She told me to play it, and said it was the same tune, but she knew it as Hipple Creek. Your notes are the only other reference I've ever found to that title. I'll have to spend some time reading that history. Thanks for starting the site, it looks to be some good fun.
Paul

mojo_monk - Posted - 03/21/2010:  05:31:04

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quote:

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Originally posted by rendesvous1840

. . . but she knew it as Hipple Creek. . .

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Hey there Paul, the only other person I've come across who called it Hipple Creek is Clarence Tross of Durgon, WV. Check him out: tinyurl.com/yja8ceb

-Sean

janolov - Posted - 03/21/2010:  08:47:19

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I think the blog is a very good initiative. We thumbleaders have to be more visible and audible. I hope you will update the blog often!

By the way, I don't understand the comments Chip had. I had no problems playing your arrangement.

However, when playing Cripple Creek (or shall we call it Hipple Creek) I noticed that the left hand was moving up and down, for example the thumb playing on the third string: first first fret, then fifth fret, and then third fret. I have found that it is often more easier to use the third string: third string fifth fret, second string fifth fret and second string third fret. You use more fingers but you don't have to move the left hand. I realized this possibility when Hunter demonstrated Darlig Cora in the triple C (or C#) tuning, compared to Pete Seeger's version in the open D tuning. Hunter frets on the fourth and fifth position with the left hand on a fixed position, while Pete is moving from first to ninth position within a few measures.

chip arnold - Posted - 03/21/2010:  09:28:38

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My comment was that the thumb was used on two 1/8 notes in a row. This is always hard to do at any significant speed. Play it again jan and see if maybe you're getting the note before th pinch with your index.... Or maybe I'm just old and slow :-)

janolov - Posted - 03/21/2010:  09:47:51

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quote:

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Originally posted by chip arnold

My comment was that the thumb was used on two 1/8 notes in a row. This is always hard to do at any significant speed. Play it again jan and see if maybe you're getting the note before th pinch with your index.... Or maybe I'm just old and slow :-)

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The basic TITI pattern is notated as 1/16 notes. In the 7th and 15th measure (of Baldheaded End Of A Broom) there is only 1/8 notes so you have a lot of time to switch between the fingers. When I played I also found that the first string notes in th 7th and 15th measures can actually be played by the thumb instead of the index.

mojo_monk - Posted - 03/21/2010:  11:32:04

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quote:

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Originally posted by janolov

I have found that it is often more easier to use the third string: third string fifth fret, second string fifth fret and second string third fret. You use more fingers but you don't have to move the left hand.

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Excellent observation! It flows much better with the 5th fret notes...I'll change the tab ASAP.

Thanks to Chip and Jan for the suggestions regarding the tabs. Many hands make lite work.

I'll be adding a few more in "alternate" tunings in the next few days..."Willie Moore", "Omie Wise", and maybe "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down"

- Sean

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Edited by - mojo_monk on 03/21/2010 12:12:50

harvey - Posted - 03/21/2010:  11:54:00

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This looks like a great idea, Sean. Jan-Olov very kindly sent me some 2-finger tabs a while back (thanks again, Jan-Olov!), but I must confess I haven't yet managed to devote some serious time to it. This is yet another encouragement.

steve j. - Posted - 03/24/2010:  13:31:35

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shoot its great,, Im gonna learn Lazy John tonight
Steve

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 03/25/2010:  22:17:28

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Sean, thanks for the lead on Hipple Creek. It's a piece of family history that we have never found any coroboration of in the past. My wife will get a kick out of it, and she doesn't even play banjo!
Paul

mojo_monk - Posted - 04/14/2010:  14:38:56

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So, I've had the site up for about a month and here are the tunes I've tabbed out so far:

DGBD tuning:
Bald Headed End of the Broom
Chased Ol’ Satan [aka Starry Crown]
Cowhide Boots
Cripple Creek
Lazy John
Skillet Good and Greasy

gDGCD tuning:
Cluck Old Hen
The Cuckoo Bird
Little Sadie

gDGAD tuning:
Willie Moore

gCGCE tuning:
Sugar Hill

I've recently added a .pdf section and am in the process of recording .mp3's of each arrangement. Hopefully those who have stopped by the site are enjoying it as much as I am putting it together.

-Sean
2ftlbanjer.wordpress.com/

omiimii - Posted - 04/14/2010:  22:24:02

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quote:

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Originally posted by mojo_monk

So, I've had the site up for about a month and here are the tunes I've tabbed out so far:

DGBD tuning:
Bald Headed End of the Broom
Chased Ol’ Satan [aka Starry Crown]
Cowhide Boots
Cripple Creek
Lazy John
Skillet Good and Greasy

gDGCD tuning:
Cluck Old Hen
The Cuckoo Bird
Little Sadie

gDGAD tuning:
Willie Moore

gCGCE tuning:
Sugar Hill

I've recently added a .pdf section and am in the process of recording .mp3's of each arrangement. Hopefully those who have stopped by the site are enjoying it as much as I am putting it together.

-Sean
2ftlbanjer.wordpress.com/

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you sir are awesome! this is a really great resource that is sorely lacking in our
community. now whevenever we get folks asking about thumb lead, we have somewhere
to send them!

mojo_monk - Posted - 04/15/2010:  04:45:32

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quote:

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Originally posted by omiimii

you sir are awesome! this is a really great resource that is sorely lacking in our
community. now whevenever we get folks asking about thumb lead, we have somewhere
to send them!

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Well shucks Thanks for the kind words Allan!

I'm trying put together some type of historical piece about two-finger playing (rather than simply saying "old timers do it"). It's the end of my semester so I have bigger fish to fry, but I'm hoping to have something in the next month or so. I think it'll be a good addition.

- Sean
2ftlbanjer.wordpress.com/

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Edited by - mojo_monk on 04/15/2010 04:48:42

bagunhe - Posted - 04/16/2010:  19:33:06

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Labor of LOVE!
BTW, who is the fiddler at piano in Little Sadie topic? It's not Gaither Carlton, is it?
Bosco

mojo_monk - Posted - 04/16/2010:  20:44:51

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quote:

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Originally posted by bagunhe

Labor of LOVE!
BTW, who is the fiddler at piano in Little Sadie topic? It's not Gaither Carlton, is it?
Bosco

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Yep. Gaither Carlton. The picture comes from here:
clarenceashley.com/images/gallery/

- Sean

stigandr5 - Posted - 04/19/2010:  08:35:48

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Thank you so much for providing this resource!

-Nathan

mojo_monk - Posted - 04/19/2010:  09:07:11

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quote:

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Originally posted by stigandr5

Thank you so much for providing this resource!

-Nathan

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No problem, Nathan. I'm gad you like it!

- Sean

David M. - Posted - 04/21/2010:  13:12:39

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This is great! Thanks, Sean. Since the Chammer is giving me such trouble, and I'm a guitar fingerpicker, this 2 finger is about all I can do at this point. It's fun stuff, and more needs to be promoted about it.

David M. - Posted - 04/21/2010:  13:18:54

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quote:

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Originally posted by jsmapr1

Looks good. One quick suggestion. It wasn't obvious, to me at least, that you need to click on the song title to get the download. I thought that link was just the post title.

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What is the download? Is it a sound file? Maybe I'm missing something...

robertsart - Posted - 04/21/2010:  15:44:31

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Hey Sean-

Real nice site! That's the great thing about the web. We can all find a little spot to claim as our own and invite everyone in... It's awesome when lots of folks show up!

Thanks for the fine resource!!!

Scott

mojo_monk - Posted - 04/21/2010:  15:47:26

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quote:

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Originally posted by David M.

What is the download? Is it a sound file? Maybe I'm missing something...

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No worries David, this is a comment about how the site was initially set up. Since then, I've changed things around and everything seems to be a bit more "user-friendly". Let me know if you have any suggestions.

I'm glad folks are enjoying it. It sounds like it's an easier transition into banjo-picking for fingerstyle guitar players than the clawhammer technique. This is not a value statement about which technique is better (I'm still a clawhammer addict by the way)...it's just an observation based upon the feedback I'm getting from the site.

I'm in the middle of writing papers and studying for final exams these days, but this summer I'm hoping to arrange 3 tunes a week. The list of potentials keeps getting longer...check back often.

- Sean
2ftlbanjer.wordpress.com/

mojo_monk - Posted - 04/21/2010:  17:21:30

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quote:

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Originally posted by robertsart

Hey Sean-

Real nice site! That's the great thing about the web. We can all find a little spot to claim as our own and invite everyone in... It's awesome when lots of folks show up!

Thanks for the fine resource!!!

Scott

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I couldn't agree more! Thanks for the kind words.

-Sean

BobTheGambler - Posted - 04/28/2010:  20:35:37

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Great site, thanks a lot for putting it up. I just finished practicing some Roscoe Holcomb stuff before checking Banjo Hangout tonight, and I'm excited to have some more thumb-lead stuff to try out.

notserp89m - Posted - 04/28/2010:  20:57:18

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Mazel, i've been attempting 2 finger for quite a while without any instruction. Thanks for the site, now i might actually get it.

mojo_monk - Posted - 04/29/2010:  03:47:46

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My pleasure!

- Sean

mojo_monk - Posted - 09/16/2010:  09:00:05

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So, being a full-time grad student with two jobs has made it really difficult to find time to post anything on the Thumb-Lead Banjer site...

UNTIL NOW!!!

I recently posted tablature and sound files for Cumberland Gap as played by the late Stella Wagoner Kimble of Carroll County, Virginia. Check it out if'n you'd like to. I plan to get another one or two up there in the next couple days, including an entry-level arrangement of I Wish I Was a Mole In the Ground.

Thanks to everybody who continues to send positive feedback my way and I'll do my best to post more often.

Here's the site: 2ftlbanjer.wordpress.com/

-Sean

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Edited by - mojo_monk on 09/16/2010 09:00:35

Greg Adams - Posted - 09/16/2010:  09:04:05

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I would love to see the tap you produced, but I don't have the software to read the file. Any way you might be able to post it as a pdf?

Thank you,
Greg