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teebee - Posted - 03/24/2010: 17:08:29
Could be a clock!
Crowman - Posted - 03/24/2010: 17:12:59
Viper I got my copy the same way but it has not arrived yet, I had no idea it was online in pdf format? Thanks for the link rteale I will use it for the other books. Rudy that banjo you have in the classifieds is awesome and if I had the money it would be mine. Very good job and as I said before you do awesome work. Well I got by Lowe's today, and the poplar did not suit me, it had a little too much green tint in it for me. The oak was great, they even had a 3x3x36 piece for the neck but I passed and I am going to the Depot to get walnut now. I really am getting excited about this project as this is something I always wanted to do and hopefully it will turn out good.
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/25/2010: 06:30:37
What are the rest of you cutting your hardwood circles and inner cutouts with? I've been using my jigsaw but I dont get very clean circles.
Solo - Posted - 03/25/2010: 07:08:35
MountainBanjo, I'm just purchasing my wood now, but my plan is to use a use a rounter to finish the circles. You create a jig which will pivot around the center of the circle, which would make shaping the outer portion of the rim simple. This inner 6" circle is trickier, since completion of this cut would destroy the pivot point. I intend to complete this cut to within about 1/16" of full depth and complete it with a jigsaw.
I'd take my time, starting the bit with relatively shallow passes, lowering the bit conservatively to avoid burning. Most of my straight bits have some mileage anyway. And remember not to whack off those neck extensions.
Here's the jig you'll have to make:
woodworkingtips.com/etips/etip...00sn.html
Jim D - Posted - 03/25/2010: 08:03:46
Stanley used a "fly cutter" chucked into a drill press. He was sufficiently afraid of the possibilities of the cutter bar "flying out" and striking him that he worked with a 1" thick board stuffed into the front of his pants and extending upward to cover his chest area.
I never did figure out how he cut the neck tabs on the top and bottom pieces with the fly cutter.
teebee - Posted - 03/25/2010: 09:00:10
I found that I could cut all the circles on my bandsaw better than with a scroll saw or jig saw. It definitely isn't as good as a router, which I don't have and am scared of.
Layout the circles on plywood. Cut directly into the inner circle waste and cut the circle. Cut the outer curve and tab before or after. This leaves you with a saw kerf on a radius. Cut the top piece at 6 o'clock and other pieces wherever you want, like 5 o'clock and 7 o'clock. When you glue up the layers you can squeeze the kerfs closed or ignore them. They will be bridged by layers on top or below. It will be plenty strong and nearly invisible.
Crowman - Posted - 03/25/2010: 09:49:39
I know everyone may think I'm crazy already? But I want to do this project with hand tools only. My shop space is limited, funds are limited, and scared of power tools. My idea is to try and build it like they did in the old days in the mountains. I am looking at a purchasing a few hand planers, chisels, knifes and trying to do it like it would be done on the Woodwrights Show. Now I know you think I'm crazy. I need some input on this, please email me if you have any ideas for a true beginner. Going to get it done one way or other.
Keltic Cherokee - Posted - 03/25/2010: 14:56:43
I built mine from a kit from a company in Connecticut called backyard banjo. It sounds very good I have a pic in my homepage here. The pot is a mailing tube 9" in dia . You could look at my Pic and build one without a kit its deceptively simple, for something that sounds so good
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/26/2010: 07:41:05
quote:
Originally posted by MountainBanjo
What are the rest of you cutting your hardwood circles and inner cutouts with? I've been using my jigsaw but I dont get very clean circles.
I draw the inner circle, drill a hole maybe a 1/4 inch to the inside, and cut it out with a jigsaw. Yeah, really messy circles. Then I take a curved rasp, and hack away at it until I am right up to the line...finish it off with a curved file and sand. In lieu of the rasp, I also have a rotary rasp that fits in my drill press, or a sanding drum. Both make a little faster work of it. But a good rasp goes through walnut so smoothly and beautifully, I think I prefer to do it that way.
Edited by - Bisbonian on 03/26/2010 07:43:07
Crowman - Posted - 03/26/2010: 08:16:55
Must have been a crazy idea as no one has commented on the doing it by hand idea? My Foxfire 3 came in yesterday and I spent an hour or so reading the banjo parts. Very good information for sure. I'm going to pick up enough walnut to start my first one today, hopefully get started on it over the weekend. I guess the doing it all by hand will be forgotten once I start working on it? The jig saw and sanding drum way may be what I resort to myself as I alreay own both of them. Let's keep this post going and see everyones works in progress.
Steve Jeter - Posted - 03/26/2010: 08:29:08
quote:
Originally posted by Crowman
Must have been a crazy idea as no one has commented on the doing it by hand idea? My Foxfire 3 came in yesterday and I spent an hour or so reading the banjo parts. Very good information for sure. I'm going to pick up enough walnut to start my first one today, hopefully get started on it over the weekend. I guess the doing it all by hand will be forgotten once I start working on it? The jig saw and sanding drum way may be what I resort to myself as I alreay own both of them. Let's keep this post going and see everyones works in progress.
absolutely not crazy!! Thats what I wnat to do myself. I used to make indian flutes, everybody told me route them out,, no way,, I hand gouged them. glued them up { but I used store bought glue" and carved them into shape sith a spokeshave & knife. What you want to do makes perfect sense to me.
everybodys got their own way they want to do things. I have a friend who make the NA flutes too. He uses every electric device ever invented on them. and they sound great and honestly look better than mine. But thats his way.
Do it your way my friend ,, and I want to see how it comes out. Nothing wrong with either way
Steve
Viper - Posted - 03/26/2010: 08:53:58
quote:
Originally posted by Crowman
Must have been a crazy idea as no one has commented on the doing it by hand idea? My Foxfire 3 came in yesterday and I spent an hour or so reading the banjo parts. Very good information for sure. I'm going to pick up enough walnut to start my first one today, hopefully get started on it over the weekend. I guess the doing it all by hand will be forgotten once I start working on it? The jig saw and sanding drum way may be what I resort to myself as I alreay own both of them. Let's keep this post going and see everyones works in progress.
Not crazy at all. That, or I'm crazy too. I don't have any shop space as I live in an apartment. Hell, I don't even have all the tools I need yet. I plan on working mostly on my back stoop and letting the wood shavings fall down to the first floor neighbor's doorway.
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/26/2010: 09:18:59
Crowman, I'll third the "not crazy" sentiment. I like to do as much of it as practical by hand...hence the rasp. I do all the neck forming by rasp...that's the most fun part, for me. I just bought some new coping saw blades, to do a more intricate soundhole design, but they would be fine for a circle, as well. But for the big roughing out operations, I uses a bandsaw or the drill press. I've made several, and the fun of doing everything by hand wears off after a while. For your first one, though, go for it! It will be a great experience.
rudy - Posted - 03/26/2010: 12:17:31
Crowman,
I'll fourth the not crazy. Working with tool limitations can be good in the sense that it slows you down (prevents you from making the really fast and irreversable mistakes made with power tools) and gives you a feeling for the materials that you choose to work with.
quote:
...Heck, you could probably just about build a banjo with a pocket knife if you had to...
That's a quote from one of my websites. The sentiment is made to emphasize the possibilities of what you can do with limited resources. I'd map out a logical game plan ahead of time to prevent spinning your wheels on false starts and reduce the likelihood of the need to "fall back and re-group".
Working with hand tools really develops your appreciation of what you can accomplish with limited power tools. too!
I don't think I've seen a single episode of the Woodwright's Shop without Roy inflicting some sort of damage to himself.
Crowman - Posted - 03/26/2010: 18:49:23
Rudy the way my tool supply is at the moment building it with a pocket knife isnt too far from the truth. I basically have a cheap drill press, cheap jig saw and a small scroll saw which is about useless. No hand tools to speak of at all that would help on the project. I want to purchase a 12" band saw but funds are not there yet, and shop is so full I cannot walk in it as we store things in there now. When it gets warm and quits raining long enough I am going to clean it up and see if I can make room for a band saw. I have much to learn about this and the only way I am going to learn is to jump in and do it. I have the desire and I guess I can learn the skills, just hate wasting wood to do it :) Question before I buy the wood though, would it be alright to buy 1x3x36 pieces and laminate 4 pieces together to get the thickness for the neck? As that is the only way I can figure out how to do it with the wood selections that they have? The 3x3x36 piece does not look like it will have enough material for the peghead? any help would be appreciated on this.
Thanks
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/26/2010: 19:12:51
Crowman, it's pretty typical to glue "ears" onto the peghead to make it wide enough. You can use a couple of pieces of leftover from the main piece...usually cut from under the neck, and glue one to each side of the peghead area...usually after you cut the slope of the peghead. Or you could laminate 1x3s together, but you don't need all four of them to be full length..most of that is going to get cut off anyway.
Edited by - Bisbonian on 03/26/2010 19:13:14
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/26/2010: 19:26:20
quote:
Originally posted by CrowmanQuestion before I buy the wood though, would it be alright to buy 1x3x36 pieces and laminate 4 pieces together to get the thickness for the neck?
Yes, except you should only need 3 for the neck, and like Bisbonian said, the ears. I used 1x4 but 1x3 should work if you are careful-less room for error. And having just cut the angle of my peghead AFTER glueing the ears on (and I was using 15/16 thick stock) I can heartily recommend doing it his way instead, ie glue them on afterward. Sometimes I dont think ahead...but it all worked out OK. Unfortunately I wont be able to finish this one before I go away for a few weeks.
Crowman - Posted - 03/26/2010: 20:10:10
well I made a mistake typing again, small keyboards are hard on me and eyes aint what they used to be either. I meant to say 1x4x36 not the 3 inch. I was thinking that the 3 inch would not give enough room for the 15 degrees for the peghead slope? I understand about the gluing the ears on but the slope concerns me since I did not measure the wood to see if the slope would work? Don't know if slope is correct term or not? I got some work to do here tomorrow before starting but hopefully I can at least get it glued up this weekend.
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/26/2010: 20:40:46
You've got more than enough wood for the slope of the peghead. Make sure you have plenty of clamps! Be careful that the boards are snug together all along their length on all edges when you glue them so there are no gaps. Once they are dry make your fingerboard surface nice and flat if it isnt already. If you clean the glue squeeze out right away it should not need much, maybe a pass or two with a hand plane and/or sandpaper, then cut the peghead. Given your tool set I'm not sure what you will use for that...I used my trusty $99 Pro-tech bandsaw. I spose a handsaw will work but I'd cut it a bit proud and then shave it down unless you know you can cut it exact.
ronwalker49 - Posted - 03/27/2010: 03:19:20
Well fellows I have finally got my shop set up and yesterday started making a jam chuck...I'd like to say right now that Rudy's tip about a few grains of salt on glue surfaces before clamping is wonderful.....Sometimes it is the little things in life that will bring a smile to your face....Today I plan to mount a faceplate and turn the thing down, true up the face put some sandpaper on the face....Hoping to be able to use it as a sanding disk as well.. My space is only 6 X 12 and in it I have a 12" craftsman lathe, table saw, compound miter, 9'' band-saw, Drill Press, and two work benches....Kind of crowed but it will work for banjos (I think)....I will try and remember to take some pictures today....
Edited by - ronwalker49 on 03/27/2010 03:35:25
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/27/2010: 08:47:49
quote:
Originally posted by ronwalker49
...I'd like to say right now that Rudy's tip about a few grains of salt on glue surfaces before clamping is wonderful.....Sometimes it is the little things in life that will bring a smile to your face....
Yeah, I picked that up from his site, too. What a difference a tiny thing like that can make!
ronwalker49 - Posted - 03/27/2010: 12:06:31
A couple of pictures of my "little shop" and my best buddy here on earth....We been pickin together for forty years....
Edited by - ronwalker49 on 03/27/2010 18:16:43
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/27/2010: 16:57:18
That shop is an inspiration. Great use of space!
ronwalker49 - Posted - 03/27/2010: 17:19:04
When I went through maintainable school, our daughter and her family, Mother-in-law, and eight Yorkshire terriers lived with us....It was so noisy that I couldn't study....I built a wall across the end of my garage and made two rooms (one on top)....Insulated them and lined them with black plastic then dry-walled them...You could almost heat it with a match......It has a small air conditioner and a good bit of storage in the room above... Very cozy in bad weather...
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/27/2010: 21:25:15
Crowman, I did a bunch of hand work on a banjo today. In the Foxfire 3 book, one of the makers (I think it was Dave Sturgil) insisted that you can make the soundhole any shape you want. Well, somebody took him up on that, and asked me to build him one with an anchor shaped hole in the back (he had just gotten out of the Navy). So, I drew out the anchor on the back plate, drilled a few strategic holes that fit in with the design, and cut out the rest of the anchor with a coping saw. That turned out a bit rough, so I cleaned it up with my favorite rasp, and an assortment of needle files. Here's how it turned out:
Then I worked on the neck for a while, again with my favorite rasp. This is a different neck (maple, instead of the walnut one I am working on today), but the work is the same:
derwood400 - Posted - 03/28/2010: 04:46:07
Wow, awesome job on that anchor sound hole. I can't wait to see the finished product.
rudy - Posted - 03/28/2010: 05:48:54
Bis,
Nice anchor. you might want to add some cross grain reenforcement across the back side of the anchor cutout. That narrow section looks like a crack waiting to happen if the player is "large-bellied"!
ronwalker49 - Posted - 03/28/2010: 06:33:53
Wow...Great job Bisbonian, I was in the Navy......Got out in 1970...
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/28/2010: 08:13:05
Thanks rudy, I'm probably going to have to do that. I was real worried about it as I was cutting it out with the saw, and it held together really well, but over time.... I would put some sort of brace across the back, but the anchor just fits inside the "tone ring", so there is not much room for it to reach solid ground, so to speak. About the only alternative I can think of is drilling and installing a 1/4" dowel into that peninsula from the edge of the ring...and just the process might put that piece at risk. Maybe if I drilled the hole slightly oversized, or sanded the dowel down a bit. What do you think?
TheLastWord - Posted - 03/28/2010: 09:07:33
Really nice work Bis! Do you make these to order and if so, what is the price range?
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/28/2010: 10:18:34
gdtrfb24, while I am selling a few of these (this one is banjo number nine), I am doing it primarily as a hobby. I started selling them because I ran out of room to store them! My main aim in participating in this thread is to encourage those who want to make their own, by sharing what I have learned (am learning). And, since I make a pretty good living with my "day job", and there are lots of people making banjos for a living, I really don't want to step on their toes. So, I would say, first, check out some people like Nate Calkins calkinsbanjos.com/Calkins_Old-...Home.html , and John Huron noteworthyjohn.com/mtnBanjo.htm , Strum Hollow: strumhollow.com/about_us.htm , and Deep Creek Springs: deepcreekstrings.com/ . If none of that works for you, then ask me again :)
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/28/2010: 12:52:19
What are you folks finishing your banjos with? I used some sort of cheap generic hardware store stain on my first one but I dont seem to have any more around. It was kind of glossy but actually worked just fine. There is a chance I might finish up this week after all...maybe.
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/28/2010: 14:08:41
I really like Tung Oil...not the "tung oil finish", but the straight oil. Few coats, rub it between coats, and whenever it gets dry or worn off years down the road, you just put on a couple more coats. I've never used "Tru-Oil", but I read a lot about it here on the BHO, and it seems like it would work similarly. I don't add any stain...the tung oil darkens it a little bit, but the walnut looks really nice without any stain, I think.
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/28/2010: 17:14:54
Maybe I finished my first one with true oil...I noticed a bottle of it in the garage and I dont know what else I would have used it for. I also have straight tung oil. But I will want to stain again because its yellow birch which is quite nondescript. A nice walnut stain perhaps.
Thanks to some of the ideas above I got a sanding cylinder for my drill and that really helped even out the wavy edges of my circles. My pot is done except I need to cut a few notches for skin tacks.
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/28/2010: 18:53:06
Woo-hoo...send us pictures when it's done.
rudy - Posted - 03/28/2010: 19:39:46
Bis,
Not knowing what you have for tools limits my ability to offer a suggestion. If I faced a similar problem I'd add 2 or 3 flush inlayed "keys" across the grain. My tool of preferance would be a bisquit joiner set to a depth slightly less than the thickness of the back. I'd then cut a matching key to add to the curved slot and plane them flush after gluing. No bisquit joiner? You could do the same thing with a router and a 1/4" straight bit. No router? Plunge cut slots with a circular saw. No circular saw? Add keys in a slot produced by using a 1/4" wide chisel.
Anyhow, you get the idea of using what's on hand to add a cross grain reenforcement set in so it is flush with the wood surface.
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/29/2010: 08:01:37
Hmmmm...okay. I was thinking of doing something on the inside, along the lines of a guitar internal brace. Not flush. You think flush would be better? Cutting into it is kind of worrying me right now.
No biscuit joiner...do have a router, but I'd need to get a bit. Do have a table saw, but worry about cutting it blind. And the chisel...might be my best bet.
Edit: You were right, of course, rudy; flush is much better. I realized as soon as I played with a piece of wood that with it inset flush, the key could go under the tone-ring and the middle ring, and be nearly twice as long. First slot is cut (chisel), and working on the second.
Edited by - Bisbonian on 03/29/2010 08:45:29
Jim D - Posted - 03/29/2010: 08:45:04
If it were me, I'd use a flat brace of 1/8" oak with the grain perpendicular to that of the walnut. The brace would be shaped to cover about 80% - 90% of the vulnerable flange, and glued in place. That way, the brace wouldn't be visible from the back, but the entire area would be well supported.
The attached photo shows the brace as a black area. (Sorry for the poor photoshop work.)
Edited by - Jim D on 03/29/2010 08:45:54
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/29/2010: 08:48:19
Hey, thanks Jim D. That was something like what I was going to try, but when I played with the flush inset key idea, I realized the key could go much farther into the solid wood away from the anchor, and hopefully be even stronger. Pictures when done....
(Your photoshopping is about twice as good as mine :)
Edited by - Bisbonian on 03/29/2010 08:56:00
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/29/2010: 08:49:00
Well, both slots are cut, now, and a strip of walnut inlaid into each, glued, clamped. I'll take the clamps off this evening, clean it up, and post a picture.
Edited by - Bisbonian on 03/29/2010 10:19:55
rudy - Posted - 03/29/2010: 17:53:47
Bis,
Excellent. That's just what i had in mind.
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/29/2010: 20:03:35
Whew...picture in a few days...I have to go to bed, get up at 3AM for work...but it turned out great. Thank you so much, rudy for the suggestion and advice.
Crowman - Posted - 03/30/2010: 03:34:41
Well guys the banjo building had to wait awhile. My dad got very sick, very fast and I had to get him in the hosptial. He is in ICU now and hopefully be out to a PCU room tomorrow. We almost lost him Sunday night, but they did an emergency heart surgery on him and so far he is improving. I hope to update ya'll with good news tomorrow. Please pray for him. Thanks Ronnie
ronwalker49 - Posted - 03/30/2010: 03:38:58
Prayer sent from Ohio.....Best wishes for a speedy recovery....Rev Ron
Edited by - ronwalker49 on 03/30/2010 03:40:37
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/30/2010: 19:23:56
Getting closer....did my final shaping and sanding and stained everything today. Skin and tuners arrive tomorrow....hopefully I'll be playing it Thursday!
rustman - Posted - 03/31/2010: 01:47:55
Nice work all of you!
The time has come for me to decide the scale length for my fretless mountain banjo. The scale on my blueprint looks a bit long to me (like, when I compare it to my guitar's scale). I know it's much a matter of taste, but I'd like to hear what you think. What would you suggest to be a good scale length and why. I might imagine, that with a longer scale it will be easier to play in tune but you have to do a bit more work while plying. I will put flush frets and fret marks on the neck.
Crowman - Posted - 03/31/2010: 05:27:25
Mountain your banjo is looking good and I would like to see more pics when you are finished. Rustman I don't know much about scale lengths but a good friend suggested 24 1/2 for mine. I have not been able to get started on mine yet so I would be interested in knowing what you choose for yours.
Crowman - Posted - 03/31/2010: 05:33:55
Bis I am a little behind on catching up with the thread but I for one appreciate you sharing what you have learned with us. I need all the help I can get with my project. I am trying to pass the time as I am still in the hospital with Dad. Keep those posts coming.
ronwalker49 - Posted - 03/31/2010: 05:40:42
Crowman----How is your father doing...?
justbill - Posted - 03/31/2010: 07:05:31
Please be kind if this is a really dumb question, but I was wondering if it would be possible to scale up the size of the head and make a "mountain cello banjo".
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