Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/08/2010:  08:00:00

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Here we have one of the most popular and widely disseminated fiddle tunes in D Major. It has found a safe home in bluegrass, in G-tuned banjo, whether in G or D, and even before that in old-time music.

The Battle of New Orleans, the Jimmy Driftwood classic, popularized by Johnny Horton, is based on it. You can't go wrong with this tune, and today is the big day to honor the brave men who fought, and all the men who died this day in 1815. Nice historical link here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_New_Orleans

It has Celtic overtones, like Old Dan Tucker, which it resembles, and can be combined with other tunes, and I play it at sessions here in Ireland, and it's well-known, though people are always sketchy about the melody when you get to the second part.

It's got so many variations, so I wanted to come up with a middle-of-the-road arrangement that everybody can play together, on both sides of the Atlantic in both hemispheres.

I got the idea for the pinches (second part) from Earl Scruggs and my old teacher Tony Trischka, who first showed it to me back in the 80s, but not like this, though similar, with a steady stream of notes in the first section (no quarter note in measure three).

It was once known as General 'Jackson's Victory', but sometime after his Presidency it was changed to the present title, leaving his name out (strangely). It sounds great on fiddle, banjo, mandolin, guitar, whistle, fife, you name it. Everybody gets to take a crack at this one. For more on the tune itself, go here and scroll down:
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/EIB_EMY.htm

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 01/08/2010:  10:09:05

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Tom ...and Don Borchelt....

I got up this morning thinking about 'Eight Of Jananuary' and 'Battle Of New Orleans'.....(well, I also remembered today is Elvis' birthday )..

You guys have done a great job of posting information and links about 'Eight Of Jan' and 'Battle Of New Orleans'. I am not yet through reading and listening to the links but I have to tell you I love Jimme Driftwood singing his 'Battle Of New Orleans'.

Thanks Tom and thanks Don Borchelt!

Phil

Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/08/2010:  10:21:21

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Thanks, Phil,

For a fuller discussion, a fascinating précis about the historical battle and the times, later politics, links and MP3s, see Don B.'s very illuminating thread, and go to the links:

http://www.banjohangout.org/topic/167518

Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/09/2010:  09:33:33

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Here is pretty much the same melody, this time in G Major. Notice how I have kept the third (or second full) measure a steady stream of eighth notes, replacing the quarter note with two notes to keep it flowing.

It just feels comfortable in G this way, though you could leave out the D note (open first string) and hold the E (9th fret of the third string) for the value of a quarter note.

Feel free to create your own variations or make the second part Scruggsier if you want to get away from strict melody and use some slides, hammer-ons or pull-offs. This version uses much less single-string work than the version in D.

It works as an up-the-neck melodic tune for a beginner or intermediate player, playing the bare bones melody (straight). It's very satisfying to play straight melody, though I have added some spice in the form of raggy syncopation at the top of the second part.

This is more fiddle tune melody than melody as sung, which is of course simpler and less notey. (Don't try to sing the simple melody and play this at the same time, unless you want to torture yourself and those around you.)

Editor's note: I came back and made some minor revisions to this tab, getting more mileage out of the G-chord position because it sounds better and is more comfortable to play. I started playing it uptempo, which automatically made me adjust my fingering. I like to go by what my *picking-hand fingers* want to play, who know better than my brain. Feel free to change the fingerings; there are plenty of ways that work. };^>

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 01/09/2010 15:15:15

fixdent - Posted - 01/09/2010:  10:03:34

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I have a hard time figuring out the chorus part. I guess because it is more of a melodic style. "We fired Our guns and the British kept a-comin" I have not found anything that I can do.

--
Gordon

g3zdm - Posted - 01/09/2010:  10:18:44

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The chorus does work if you get the timing right.
Chorus starts at the beginning of the 3rd line in the G version.
The 1st note on that line corresponds to "we" (or "and we").
"Fired" is one syllable in terms of the timing.
The first 2 notes of the 3rd bar on line 3 (short note, then pinch) corresponds to more than 1 syllable
("And there wasn't" is covered by those 2 notes).
And so it continues......

minstrelmike - Posted - 01/09/2010:  15:35:43

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There is an excess of words to this in the song book Rise Up Singing.

My favorite verse:

Well we marched back to town in our dirty ragged pants
And we danced all night with the pretty girls from France;
We couldn't understand 'em, but they had the sweetest charms
And we understood 'em better when we got 'em in our arms.

g3zdm - Posted - 01/10/2010:  07:41:02

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Thanks, Mike; I like that extra verse.

There are also several satirical or political parodies based on hurricane Katrina and the ensuing chaos (including one by Ray Stevens).
My favourite (though politically incorrect and maybe offensive to some)
can be found by seaching for "Battle of New Orleans parody Katrina" on Youtube.
I removed the direct link as some objected.

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Edited by - g3zdm on 01/10/2010 12:44:16

Ol Lefty - Posted - 01/10/2010:  09:10:19

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Mr. British Penguin-while you have a right to link that disgusting variation, I find it worse than "politically incorrect," and were I an administrator, I would delete your post and suspend you. OUR First Amendment gives you the right to approve such conduct(however, forum policy may lawfully prohibit it: I do not know about the rules in that detail). I consider your conduct to be far more offensive than if you had used the most graphic scatological or crude sexual language that is prohibited. I cannot let your ignorant cruelty to go unchallenged-no matter how many of my other fellow members may disagee with my position. J. E. Mike Tobey

Unplugged - Posted - 01/10/2010:  09:27:18

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ol Lefty

Mr. British Penguin-while you have a right to link that disgusting variation, I find it worse than "politically incorrect," and were I an administrator, I would delete your post and suspend you. OUR First Amendment gives you the right to approve such conduct(however, forum policy may lawfully prohibit it: I do not know about the rules in that detail). I consider your conduct to be far more offensive than if you had used the most graphic scatological or crude sexual language that is prohibited. I cannot let your ignorant cruelty to go unchallenged-no matter how many of my other fellow members may disagee with my position. J. E. Mike Tobey

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I second the emotion of Ol Lefty here. That link indeed goes wayyyy beyond the PC issue is just blatantly nasty, politically small-minded, and unpatriotically divisive. Not worthy of a BHO thread. And one of the reasons we don't have the Religion and politics sections no more....

Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/10/2010:  10:50:50

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I have tabbed slavishly here, re-working this tab (several times) to make it even Scruggsier, to teach a great tune and to offer some important history. I hope no mod deletes this thread or these tabs because of questionable song parodies or filks, which some folks, understandably, find outrageous and worthy of binning.

So, let's get it right lads: Taste, tone and timing!

Here's a bluegrassy version for serious Scruggs players. The verse may actually be harder than the melodic versions (here in D and G) because one has to use the little finger quite nimbly, in Scruggs style, also picking up fingers at times, as Earl is fond of doing. I also tried to keep to a Southern Scruggsy right hand, while capturing as much of the melody as possible.

I'm trying to stick close to the fiddle-tune melody while putting in familiar roll patterns that lend themselves to Scruggsy "drive" - a balancing act to be sure! See what you think. Drive is not limited to Scruggs-style but familiar roll patterns and fretting-hand work go a long way to getting into a familiar groove.

In the second part, I've avoided melodic playing and gone more in the direction of ol' Earl and maybe even OT, using hammer-ons, slides and pull-offs, also Scruggs-style pinches in deference to Earl.

I don't think Earl Scruggs would have any problem playing along with this version if I were to sit down next to him and play him my arrangement. And it's really fun to play, very satisfying.

Again, do pay close attention to the up-the-neck position in the verse. The fingerings are subtle and capture the heart of the melody in a very Scruggsy way.

Okay, let's focus on the *tune* and keep the political satire and gross filks out please. This is no adult material thread and certainly no place for abhorrent or provocative videos.

No one needs to be suspended, just 86 the video, imho, which goes beyond the rules of this forum and social decorum. Please, just a bit of coolness. If one can't write the lyrics down, please don't link a video using inflammatory language, politics aside.

Let's forgive each other ... now, lest we forget, turn the other cheek, and move on, as men do. I see a clash of cultures here, but remember who won the war. We don't need to notify lawyers, Shakespeare or immigration. Enjoy!

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 01/10/2010 16:33:33

g3zdm - Posted - 01/10/2010:  12:45:48

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I removed the direct link as I want this excellent thread to remain.
I just suggested what to search for instead in my edit.

Some nice variations in the new 2nd part, Tom.

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Edited by - g3zdm on 01/10/2010 14:12:38

dubtom - Posted - 01/11/2010:  15:32:00

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Don't suppose there's an audio available for this tune? I know the song is listed in tabs but not this version. I always find it easier to learn a song if I can hear it,gives me an idea of timing etc and how it should sound. It also helps with my less than perfect understanding of tab.

Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/11/2010:  16:44:43

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quote:

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Originally posted by dubtom

Don't suppose there's an audio available for this tune? I know the song is listed in tabs but not this version. I always find it easier to learn a song if I can hear it,gives me an idea of timing etc and how it should sound. It also helps with my less than perfect understanding of tab.

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Tommy, that's the right question to ask. I hear you. I'm in Ireland and I give lessons, Scruggs, Reno, Stanley, Crowe, Emerson, Keith, melodic, Irish tunes, jazz tunes, blues, back-up, etc., catered to your playing level, goals and particular needs - but I need to hear you play. Then I can really help you.

We can do audio or video in person - no problem. I'll be in Dublin before too long. I'm developing a band there, the Bluestack Mountain Boys. We play at Le Cirk. They were calling themselves the Bluegrass Brothers but we had to change that because there's a family band from Virginia using that name (the Dowdys), great band too.

Please find my schedule on http://www.myspace.com/tomhanwaymusic

At your service. Send me a private message please. I believe I can help you.

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 01/25/2010 06:12:13

Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/11/2010:  20:37:37

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 01/25/2010 07:20:55

pasturepicker - Posted - 01/12/2010:  05:09:44

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Good tabs Tom! I used to play the tune in G (Trischka's melodic book) but my son learned it in D on the fiddle. Your tabbed version in D is fairly easy and the melody is right on the money. In the first measure, I found it easier to fret the 5th string on the 7th fret with my thumb rather than the first string. Thanks for sharing your tabs.

AD3AD3AD3 - Posted - 01/12/2010:  05:13:56

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Thanks for the TABs.

Tom Hanway - Posted - 01/13/2010:  13:13:13

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quote:

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Originally posted by AD3AD3AD3

Thanks for the TABs.

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Sure thing, my mom's favorite soft drink, remember it? Of course use different fingerings if it sounds better to you or is more comfortable. Variations in fingering tend to create new possibilities to follow up with. There are no mistakes, only different pathways and journeys.

In the first full measure, wrapping the thumb around the seventh fret works beautifully. Yet, the A-note that is sounded here may sound brighter played then its counterpart on the first string. It has a noticeably different timbre and may be “ringier” and louder, which is not necessarily a bad thing if you want it to poke out a bit.

In D Major, the reason I use the blocked position, barring with the index at the seventh fret and fretting the third string at the ninth, is for uniformity of tone (timbre). It's mellower and the first measure is even all the way across. My Stelling SwallowTail Deluxe is plenty bright with the Scorpion bridge. In any case, I was going for evenness in tone and volume.

In the first full measure, the F# on the first string and the A on second strings have a similar "roundness" to them in terms of timbre, which the fretted fifth string does not have –having more tension and a brighter sound. The E note that follows on the third string would have a duller timbre than the fretted fifth, so by fretting the first instead of the fifth, these three consecutive notes have a uniformity of tone. I use this position all the time, so I’m used to it, like a favorite pair of work boots.

Having said that, I love your alternate fingering and I have no reservations using it also, fretting with the thumb, and it's a great suggestion that opens up more variations, actually unlocking the door to a whole mini-universe of variations. Let’s go inside this realm a bit deeper.

Having an even tone is always an important consideration but there are others. Variation is high on my playing agenda, especially when we get into old Celtic approaches to ornamentation, which include (1) melismatic, (2) intervallic and (3) rhythmic variation – all operating in the land of Monroe’s “ancient tones” – that is, the four Celtic modes: Ionian, Mixolydian, Dorian and Aeolian.

The first type of variation involves the substitution of a series of higher and lower notes for a main note, or leading into a main note with a grace note; the second type involves substituting a different note – often quite higher or lower – for the basic, more commonly note; the third type involves substituting a different rhythmic figure, e.g., a triplet, for a basic note or a group of notes. This last type of variation may involve lengthening, shortening or leaving out a note. Let’s try them.

In 4/4, by using the thumb on the fifth string and having the first string open, the next note occurring on the third beat, an F# on the 7th fret, can be struck as a quarter note, doing a pinch on the first two strings with the first string played open. This is a natural place to accent, setting up a pattern, because the third beat may be accented (played as a quarter note) in the next measure and most often in the fourth measure, where it resolves to D. Don't pinch too hard, but for God's sake let the banjo ring out. We are no longer going for evenness in tone/volume but playing more dynamically and rhythmically (rhythmic variation).

So, just using the thumb (fretting hand) creates other possibilities for variation. I’m all for it! One could add triplets too, a melismatic-rhythmic variation. I have done that in one spot while avoiding playing triplets across three strings, which tends to give tunes a bouncier hornpipe feel.

Instead I’ve used a wide palette of variations and combine them to create interest (hopefully). When music is too predictable it can become dull. Likewise, when music is too unpredictable, it also can become boring, a “flurry of meaningless fill notes played by some insensitive jerk with no taste” to quote a fellow BHO poster (Steve Davis).

It’s helping the listener along while letting them get inside the melody, teasing them with unexpected surprises – now that creates interest. That’s the real point of variation and improvisation – to pull and hold a listener’s interest, not to bore or confuse them so they stop listening. It has to be familiar enough, yet unfamiliar enough to reel them in (pun intended).

Here I make (1) “melismatic variations” in the form of grace notes, using slides and pull-offs, (2) “intervallic variations” by moving away from the normal melody, substituting higher and lower notes, also developing a series of either ascending or descending note patterns, and (3) “rhythmic variations” in the form of syncopation, also by making two eighth notes a quarter note (as in the first full measure), or by making a quarter note two eighth notes (as in measures 6 and 10, on the third beat). The pinches, sometimes straight, sometimes syncopated, serve as examples of combined intervallic-rhythmic variation.


In this arrangement, I have doubled the parts, also breaking them up into units of four measures each, indicated by a heavy bar line, putting in variations that sound good to me after all these years playing the tune.

Within the A and B sections, the order of parts can be moved around any way you want, but here I start with the simple before moving to the more complex. One can go back to playing the tune’s structure as AB, instead of doubling both sections.

The tune structure here is actually A1, A2, A3, A4; B1, B2, B3, B4. These are not the only variations, obviously, but these are what I like to hear and play.

Bottom line: It’s about playing the sounds that you want to hear, not about playing variations just to play them, or an abstract exercise.

The technique serves the music, which is why I have incorporated modern (TIM and TIMI) fingerings (associated with Noam Pikelny and Chris Pandolfi). One could also use the old TITI or TMTM (or other) patterns, but these becomes harder and harder the faster you go.

Greater speed and accuracy can be achieved with TIM and TIMI patterns, plus they really come in handy once you start playing triplets and variations across strings.

Feel free to make your own fingering choices if these prove too weird.

In Celtic styles, pre-planned variation is the springboard for more personal and spontaneous variation – what we call improvisation.

Freedom to improvise in a Celtic style does not come free, but requires focus, discipline, hard work and perseverance. Believe and enjoy!

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 01/14/2010 19:07:00

ewertj - Posted - 01/16/2010:  22:23:23

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Awesome tune study, thanks so much!

5stringpicker2 - Posted - 01/17/2010:  07:19:13

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Love this song, been playing it since the early 70s. Great one for up the neck melody and down the neck chorus playing.

(I )===='---<::)