motomatto - Posted - 11/01/2009:  10:59:04

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Hi there,

I'm looking for a good music creation program. The two I'm considering are TablEdit and GuitarPro and I wanted to ask everyone here their opinion.

Here's the list of things I want to do:
Create tabs for both banjo and guitar (obviously)
Create tabs from sheet music (piano/classical guitar) and transpose them into banjo parts. This requires a good transposer and the ability to move notes (tab) from string to string easily.
Create music with multiple parts for multiple instruments.
Eventually be able to scan in sheet music and transpose to guitar/banjo.

I think both TablEdit and GuitarPro has all these features (except scanning sheet music).

I wondering all of your thoughts. At the moment I'm thinking GuitarPro because I like the interface better and there's a really large archive of tab out there.

Thanks!
Matt

"Self preservation is a full time occupation"
- Ani Difranco

BC Bill - Posted - 11/01/2009:  11:25:30

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I have been with GuitarPro since it first came out. Originally, I loved it, but a new company took it over for version 5, and they really degraded it. They removed all of the print controls, which, for me rendered it nearly useless. I have switched back to version 4. There is a new version close to release (or, so I have been told) and they may bring things back up to par, however, they are going to have to convince me before I buy GP again,

Tabledit, on the other hand, continues to give the user more and more options, and greater control, The result is that there is a lot longer learning curve. However, that is more than offset by the range of options that the program offers. As well, there are a lot more tabs out there in Tabledit than in GuitarPro.

I have both programs, and I have had them both for years. Unfortunately, I would not even consider using GuitarPro in its current form.

Hope that helps,
Bill

email me at lakesidestudio@shaw.ca

motomatto - Posted - 11/01/2009:  11:34:41

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Hi Bill,

Thanks for the input. I hadn't realized that GuitarPro had issues. I've noticed a couple of bugs that I consider pretty annoying, but because I don't have the full version I haven't done any printing.

One of the reasons I've been leaning towards GP is that the amount of tabs for it is much larger. Not for banjo of course, because almost everyone here seems to use TablEdit.

Do you know of a tool a tool to convert between GP and TablEdit?

Thanks!
Matt

quote:

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Originally posted by BC Bill

I have been with GuitarPro since it first came out. Originally, I loved it, but a new company took it over for version 5, and they really degraded it. They removed all of the print controls, which, for me rendered it nearly useless. I have switched back to version 4. There is a new version close to release (or, so I have been told) and they may bring things back up to par, however, they are going to have to convince me before I buy GP again,
Hope that helps,
Bill

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"Self preservation is a full time occupation"
- Ani Difranco

BC Bill - Posted - 11/01/2009:  12:05:34

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Matt,

If you buy Tabledit, you get access to their 'registered users' page. There are routines on the TablEdit registered users web-site to convert PowerTab and Guitar-Pro files to TablEdit. I don't know how reliable the routines are, when I have wanted to convert in the past, it has been to go the other way - from Tabledit to GuitarPro.

I think you will find that most of the GuitarPro tabs out there are for Rock guitar, so that massive tab base shrinks quickly if your taste lies elsewhere. For some reason, acoustic musicians have tended to favor Tabledit. Mandolin Cafe has a massive tab database, and all of it is in Tabledit. As you have seen, Tabledit is becoming the program of choice here.

There are some excellent and complete tutorials on using Tabledit at:

el-kay.com/tabledit/


Bill



email me at lakesidestudio@shaw.ca

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Edited by - BC Bill on 11/01/2009 12:27:14

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 11/01/2009:  14:40:35

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I would take into account the way they work. With guitarpro you write out the notes and then start dividing them into measures. Tabledit starts with measure lines for your given rhythm (you can change rhythm at any time) and you fill in the notes, within the measures. Tabledit felt more natural for me so I bought that one.

I also like being able to distribute tabs that are anyone can play with the built in MIDI. Users don't have to buy Tabledit to play my tabs as there is a free program called TEFView that allows easy use of the MIDI and complete printing control. Instead of distributing tabs that only work on screen or only on printed page, my tabs can be used either way.




rsb.pricklypearmusic.net
Rocket Science Banjo - Advanced Clawhammer Techniques for beginners and long time players alike. Plus videos and 25-40 EZ Clawhammer Tunes.
& check out "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" at:
pricklypearmusic.net
banjo brad's great banjo site

Texasbanjo - Posted - 11/02/2009:  05:49:47

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Check out Sibilus (I believe that's how it's spelled), it'll do everything you want including putting the musical notation in. I have a friend who uses it for his students and for his personal use and it's great.

Let's Pick!
Texas Banjo

wildboar - Posted - 11/02/2009:  06:51:11

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I used the demos for both, and chose Guitar Pro becuase it allowed me to enter the tabs more easily (better interface). It can import Tabledit files fine, so I'm not missing out on any of the banjo tabs online. It may just come down to what interface you prefer.

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Edited by - wildboar on 11/02/2009 07:11:29

wildboar - Posted - 11/02/2009:  06:56:27

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quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

With guitarpro you write out the notes and then start dividing them into measures. Tabledit starts with measure lines for your given rhythm (you can change rhythm at any time) and you fill in the notes, within the measures. Tabledit felt more natural for me so I bought that one.

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Guitar Pro 5 provides measure lines automatically based on the time signature, and it also higlights (in red) any measures without enough notes to fill the measure properly.

wildboar - Posted - 11/02/2009:  07:30:58

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quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Check out Sibilus (I believe that's how it's spelled), it'll do everything you want including putting the musical notation in. I have a friend who uses it for his students and for his personal use and it's great.

Let's Pick!
Texas Banjo

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I didn't find Sibelius when I was shopping for a tab program. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll have to try out the demo.

Also, as for my Guitar Pro comments, I just read on their website that the Mac version is newer than the Windows version. I'm using a Mac, so if you are on Windows, you may have a different experience with it.

motomatto - Posted - 11/02/2009:  08:39:52

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I should note (and I think it may have been pointed out earlier) that GuitarPro is having a new version come out "soon".

They're in essence rewriting the software, which could be good or bad.

I point it out because if you buy GuitarPro now, they might come out with the new one right after. Upgrades aren't free, though I think you get a discount.

Sibelius looks great, but it's really pricey. I would choose that overall, because it's the most full featured, professional and mature software, but I don't feel like dropping over $300 for software.

Matt

"Self preservation is a full time occupation"
- Ani Difranco

salvatone - Posted - 11/02/2009:  08:54:01

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I haven't downloaded any tabs from the Hangout in a while. It used to be that Tabledit was the prefered format on this site by a long shot. Is that still the case?

Salvatone

Thor - Posted - 11/02/2009:  09:09:16

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Harmony Assistant will do all you seek (there is a sheet music scanning plug-in)... plus MUCH more.
myriad-online.com/en/docs/harmonydesc.htm
Free demo available.
One reasonable price-- free upgrades... for life. I bought mine in the mid-90s.

Imports .tef, finale, guitarpro, and MANY more formats.

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Edited by - Thor on 11/02/2009 09:10:06

Majorjer - Posted - 12/29/2009:  17:17:14

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Salvatone is correct. Stay away from programs like sibelius and Harmony assistant...primarily because they both have HIGH learning curves.
Tabledit is by far the very best and most of those like jack baker and Lee marcus use to faithfully produce some of the best tabs on here.

Banjocoltrane - Posted - 12/29/2009:  19:00:44

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I use Musedit. It will do everything you mentioned.

Personally, I chose it over Tabledit and the others because
1)I prefer it's rhythmic notation and appearance.
2)It allows me to write full paragraphs explaining the material, chord diagrams with lyrics, very easily
3)It's $40.00

I don't understand why people would design a music software program that can't even notate basic eighth notes like you would see them in professional sheet music?...I've seen TABS and sheet music created with some of these programs that are just horrible looking.
Musedit isn't hard to use. I was making Tabs and sheet music as soon as I got it.

Website is:
musedit.com/

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Edited by - Banjocoltrane on 12/29/2009 19:04:36

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 12/31/2009:  13:30:21

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Banjocoltrane
I've read you latest post several times and still don't quite follow. Are you saying that Tabledit and the others don't notate eighths and sixteenths correctly - as in to read correctly or as in to play on MIDI? I have little exposure to Guitarpro and any others but it seems to me they all notate correctly down to 64ths and possibly further. Am I missing something?

I have had a couple issues with triplets in tabledit, but I'm not even sure what they were now. Some things don't happen very intuitively until you get used to a program.

frenzy752 - Posted - 01/07/2010:  15:33:27

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You can take a look at Sibelius as it has alot of good features.
They also have a demo you can try. Hope that helps. Good luck:)

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Edited by - frenzy752 on 04/06/2010 01:05:46

BC Bill - Posted - 04/06/2010:  10:25:03

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Guitar Pro released a new version of their software yesterday . . .Version 6. As disappointed as I was with Version 5, I am impressed with Version 6. They have completely rewritten the entire package. The display and user interface are all new, as are the input system and printing utilities.

The primary strength of GP, in my opinion, has always been the intuitive, expansive, input system. It is even better in the new system. The printing utilities which were brutalized in version 5 have been upgraded and reinstalled in the new version. As well, you can build input templates for your favorite instrument and favorite screen layout. Press one key, and you are tabbing a drop 'C' tuned banjo. You can also build printing templates. This is a boon for anyone preparing tabs for students or for general distribution (either in hard copy or electronically).

I have only been using the new system for one day, and problems may arise as I get deeper into it. However, from what I have seen, Guitar Pro has significantly raised the bar for all tab entry software.

Bill

SteveMcBill - Posted - 04/08/2010:  01:32:13

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I have legal copies of TablEdit (Windows. Mac and Palm), Guitar-Pro (4 & 5), MusEdit, and Harmony Assistant, and also have demo versions of Sibelius and Finale.

What do I use for ALL my tabbing - TablEdit !! Why, because it fits best my way of working and, for my money, has the best interface for tab entry as well an excellent printing ability. I also believe it has by far the greatest number of tabs out there on the Net and certainly when it comes to acoustic instruments and music it far beats GP in this respect. GP has tended to become the program of choice for young electric players who play rock and/or pop single line riffs rather than more complex harmonised fingerstyle on various stringed instruments (TablEdit will also produce tab for harmonica, recorder, whistle, and many other instruments).

A program to convert GP and PowerTab files to TablEdit format can be obtained from the Registered Users page (it is also available out there on the Net at various sites). GP-5's abilities to import TablEdit files are poor - it didn't handle repeats well and mangled many of the other facilities in TablEdit. I have no idea how the new version 6 handles this facility.

TablEdit will also import directly a number of other file formats including TabRite, ASCII, Midi, ABC, NIFF Karaoke, Bucket O'Tab and others.

ALL updates to the TablEdit program are FREE for life whereas each version change in GP requires the user to purchase an upgrade. I know which business model I prefer. The TablEdit author (Matthieu) is also very amenable to suggestions for changes and/or facility additions to the software. I'm afraid my contacts with the GP authors (during version 5) have always resulted in terse and unhelpful responses.

There is a reason that TablEdit is so widely used amongst acoustic instrument players and that is that it is the best tool for the job out there (almost without exception at any price).

Various different tutorials for TablEdit can be found at:

el-kay.com/tabledit/

stephenseifert.com/tabledit-tutorials.html

tabledit.com/help/english/tutorial.shtml

Steve
stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/tab.htm

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Edited by - SteveMcBill on 04/08/2010 12:01:20

Tablaman - Posted - 04/22/2010:  02:14:54

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I just purchased Guitar Pro and to my dismay discovered that when you select open G tuning for the banjo that it notates and plays back the fifth string as though it was tuned to G from the nut not the fifth fret. When it notates the fifth string fretted at the 10th fret it puts up an F not a C. Notated from the 6th fret you get a C# not a G#. Am I doing something wrong or is this the way it is? Can someone help?

Thanks

Tablaman - Posted - 04/22/2010:  09:37:16

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I figured this out, and it is actually very cool. You can create custom tunings, and there are individual capos for each string. So what you have to do is tune the 5th string to D and add a capo to the fifth string at the fifth fret for standard tuning. Then you can save that tuning - works beautifully. I looked at the chord editor in TablEdit and I have to say that it appears rather weak. The chord editor in Guitar Pro can create any chord over any fret spread and suggest the most likely names for the chord. Also, the on board library of chords is way more extensive and sophisticated. I've also noted that you can assign any font you want to individual categories of headers etc. I'm sure that as I go on I will discover many more positive attributes to Guitar Pro6. It appears to be a very powerful program.

jim109b - Posted - 05/20/2010:  04:49:12

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tablaman

I figured this out, and it is actually very cool. You can create custom tunings, and there are individual capos for each string. So what you have to do is tune the 5th string to D and add a capo to the fifth string at the fifth fret for standard tuning. Then you can save that tuning - works beautifully. I looked at the chord editor in TablEdit and I have to say that it appears rather weak. The chord editor in Guitar Pro can create any chord over any fret spread and suggest the most likely names for the chord. Also, the on board library of chords is way more extensive and sophisticated. I've also noted that you can assign any font you want to individual categories of headers etc. I'm sure that as I go on I will discover many more positive attributes to Guitar Pro6. It appears to be a very powerful program.

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Wahaay!! BHO strikes again :)

I've been trying get an answer on the 5th string tuning problem.

GuitarPro support though is bad...I posted this problem a while back and no answer.

Despite the poor support, I've always liked GP5 and GP6 looks better and sounds pretty good if not up to BIAB (but that's not what its for). The sampled sound engine is much upgraded over GP5 and if you don't want to shell out for BIAB and can't stand listening to MIDI instruments for a backing, its a much cheaper option.

Nice one Tablaman, I'm off to try it

SteveMcBill - Posted - 05/23/2010:  02:38:23

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Well, I upgraded my copy of GP-5 to the new GP-6. It does look very different and the sound engine is now very good.

However, I had hoped that the abysmal file importation from other software would have been improved/re-written by the new team. Sadly, this does not seem to be the case. Importation of TablEdit and PowerTab files still has problems with section repeats and tends to generate 2 separate tracks for some of the bass notes which leads to note drop-outs on playback.

Look is modern; sound is impressive (especially for electric guitarists) but for me I will still be using TablEdit as my main tabbing engine despite the improvements in GP. If they FIX the Import problems then - perhaps I may do a little more in GP - I will keep up with the Updates and we will see. I'm afraid that until these are re-written/patched the 'attraction' of the sound is a small item compared to usability and accuracy.

Steve

jim109b - Posted - 05/23/2010:  11:47:56

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Yeah, I agree...they haven't really done much with the import side. Not their core focus I guess, and its rare to fine banjo tabs in GP so it is a bit of a negative for us lot.

banjobubby - Posted - 05/23/2010:  14:11:07

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i dont meen too sound rude or anything but you should really try not learning from tabs, the reason i say this is beacause you will be so much happier when you learn somthing by ear. that and somtimes you can even learn new lick and s*** you didnt even know you could do

jim109b - Posted - 05/23/2010:  15:56:22

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quote:

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Originally posted by banjobubby

i dont meen too sound rude or anything but you should really try not learning from tabs, the reason i say this is beacause you will be so much happier when you learn somthing by ear. that and somtimes you can even learn new lick and s*** you didnt even know you could do

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And I don't mean to be rude either, but with all due respect, this is a bit off topic

SteveMcBill - Posted - 05/25/2010:  02:26:34

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So, let's make it a priority for them to fix (the Import process that is).

If we all put in a request to GP Technical Support asking why the importation processes fall short and asking for them to be fixed/enhanced then perhaps it will happen !!

Get writing guys and gals !!

Steve
stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/tab.htm

BC Bill - Posted - 05/25/2010:  07:28:44

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I have been using Guitar Pro since it first came out. For years, I thought that it was the best tab software available. Unfortunately, I believe that the group that recently bought it out are not interested in music, they are interested in profit. Their customer support has been seriously degraded and their changes to the software are almost all cosmetic without consideration for the implications for musicians. I am heartbroken to see this happen. I loved the user interface and David's concern for constant and intelligent improvement of the program. I have purchased my last copy of Guitar Pro. I have it on my computer, but I never use it. I use version 4.

As awkward as the interface for Tabledit is, and as steep as the initial learning curve is, I believe that the program is still run by, and geared to, serious musicians and fretted instrument players. Since the release of Guitar Pro 5, I have been using Tabledit and Guitar Pro 4.

I don't see any hope for Guitar Pro in the future and that makes me very sad. I hope that I am wrong.

Bill

SteveMcBill - Posted - 05/26/2010:  07:41:18

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Bill

We each get used to using what we use and any other method then seems 'awkward'.

Me, I have used TablEdit since 1998 and I find the user interface easy and simple to use and very intuitive. For me GP has always been the 'awkward' one - I think we should be thankful that there is a choice of software out there to fit different folks.

What I am sad about is the apparent drop in user support and interest in the user by GP and also in the errors it includes when translating tabs from other software (e.g. TablEdit, PowerTab, etc.). Had the translation worked better then I might have been happier - I have purchased version-6 (having been an owner and very occasional user since version-3) but I doubt very much whether I will be upgrading beyond this version. I will stick to TablEdit - the author is very responsive to requests for change and or additional enhancement and that suits me down to the ground.

Steve
stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/tab.htm

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Edited by - SteveMcBill on 05/27/2010 05:17:19