R.C - Posted - 10/11/2009:  05:25:04

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hey,
i was wondering if ya could tell me how long if would take to learn cripple creek from the start?like with no experience what so ever of banjo.
its one of the songs i hear again and again in regards to learning how to play.
i am hoping to get my banjo in the next 2 weeks and would like to have something prepared for it so i can start straight away eg tabs.
i will only have half an hour - one hour a day to play banjo due to school work etc
any advice would do me the world of good!
Róisín

Gold Star GF-85 - Posted - 10/11/2009:  05:37:35

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Depends on many things, like:
1. Do you have a teacher or are you going to get a teacher?
2. Do you have a book to work from/DVD/Video, on line lesson?
3. Banjo Hangout Tabs
4. How much you apply yourself on a regular basis.....etc.

It is a basic beginner song, not hard but you will need some type of starting point, and if you don't have access to a teacher there are many good methods of learning out there.

Good Luck and Welcome to BHO.



Big John,
1987 Gibson Earl Scruggs Standard
1986 Stelling Sunflower

Texasbanjo - Posted - 10/11/2009:  06:06:16

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Different people learn at different rates. Maybe you learn fast, maybe you'll learn slow, but you will learn.

Take it slow and easy, work on timing, tone and technique and not speed.

It's going to take quite a bit of practice for you to feel comfortable wearing picks, you'll have to get used to doing rolls and making chords. You'll have to work on hand position, fretting, etc., so there's no real "quick fix" to learning banjo (unless, of course, you're a talented young person who just soaks it up).

Let's Pick!
Texas Banjo

KANINJACK - Posted - 10/11/2009:  06:06:17

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It took me a couple of days to memorize it, via Murphy, and a month or so more to get it to where I really like the way I played it, tone, speed, etc. That was the first song I learned, however, at the same time I was putting a lot of time in on rolls, pinches, etc.

fixdent - Posted - 10/11/2009:  06:16:10

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order the "murphy method" vols 1 and 2.

That will get you going in quick order.....especially if you don't have a teacher...

--
Gordon

pickingfive - Posted - 10/11/2009:  06:16:47

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I learned it in about two hours using The Murphy Method Vol. 1 Beginning Banjo VHS, (see http://www.murphymethod.com/) and like Kaninjack, about another 10 hours to get it smoothed out and a little faster pace on playing it. However, I am not that skilled/gifted at playing the banjo, and as others have said, it depends on the person's abilities as to how long it takes to play it. I would strongly recommend you learn to pick the five string via the "by ear" method rather than by tablature.

pickingfive

Axeman79 - Posted - 10/11/2009:  07:11:43

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Róisín,

The rate of perfecting Cripple Creek are likely an individual thing as many have said here. I thought however, that I'd give you my experience as an example using the Scruggs method and Scrugg's book, without little outside help. The first several sections of the book are dedicated to teaching the chords, rolls, rhythm, and techniques used in Scrugg's version of Cripple Creek. By the time you finish those sections, you should be able to play the song through slowly. Speed would be a matter of continued practice. I have been very methodical and have been concentrating on learning the chords and techniques, which are foundational. I expect that from start to completely playing Cripple Creek slowly will be about two months...practicing from 1/2 hour to 1 hour per day.

If you just want to learn the song without detailed learning of the chords, rolls, etc., I imagine you could trim that time considerably.

Axeman

If the minimum wasn't good enough...it wouldn't be the minimum.

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 10/11/2009:  07:49:01

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Cripple Creek although considered a beginners tune takes a fair bit of time and practice to nail it.

The tune has a number of elements which include slides, hammer-ons and pull-offs. It's the second tune on Murphy's beginner banjo Vol 1 the first lesson being Banjo in the Hollow where some elements used in Cripple Creek are taught.

If you are a quick learner and have three hours a day to practice you could learn both tunes in two weeks maybe less.

There are other versions in tablature which might be easier that's assuming you can read tab.

Regards Tam

Picking a Fender FB 58 and PROUD to describe myself as a Student of the Murphy Method

Oalbrets - Posted - 10/11/2009:  08:10:05

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It takes less time to learn the song the beginner way then it does the advanced way. The main thing here is how much time you want to pratice the song. Thats how you make progress. Pratice, Pratice, Pratice

Poverty Ridge Bluegrass

minstrelmike - Posted - 10/11/2009:  08:42:53

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It will take you anywhere from 1-3 hours just to figure out how to get everything working together. Then it will take a month or more to try to get enough speed so it sounds like a song. Then it will take a lifetime to play it the way _you_ really want.

I try to avoid teaching rank beginners bluegrass arrangements right off the bat. They are too complex. If you want to start right now, practice doling the forward roll with your right hand just by tapping on your leg. TM TIM TIM (with no spaces or pauses). I encourage folks to strum chords and learn songs that way while practicng the forward roll and once you have it up-to-speed, then you start adding in left-hand fingering for chords and licks (which comes surprisingly fast because both hands have learned to sync up by strumming).

But most folks don't do that.
If you are set on learning Cripple Creek first, start with the B part. That part is the only reason I can figure why folks think it is a good tune to start on. The first part is tricky, doesn't tend to use standard rolls, and requires considerable finger stretches. The second part is easier but requires slides in the middle of rolls (not a beginner technique) but at least you can play it with the square roll which I don't think requires any effort to learn.

Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html

Richard Dress - Posted - 10/11/2009:  09:24:28

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I think Mike is giving good advice.

gdoc - Posted - 10/11/2009:  09:34:03

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Looking back when I first learned, I agree with Mike also.... but having fun is most important and if that's learning a song you like, then that's the right thing for you. One piece of advice I found long ago when teaching, was getting the students to NOT WATCH their right hand. It ain't going anywhere, and if you look at it, you try to spread your fingers out to see the strings instead of keeping then close to position.

gdoc

Oalbrets - Posted - 10/11/2009:  09:43:51

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Good advise guys, when I started learning the banjo I had all kinds of songs I wanted to learn. I didn't know just how difficult the banjo was until I started. Well a lot of things changed when I picked it up and tried to learn. I found a teacher and that was the best thing I ever did. I think people don't realize how much time and pratice it takes to even learn one song on the banjo. I sure didn't.

Poverty Ridge Bluegrass

OldFox - Posted - 10/11/2009:  10:01:52

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Cripple Creek is a tune most people learn early, but as has been said it isn't a tune that is easy to get right for a beginner. In fact I could never seem to get it to sound right until I began to concentrate on the melody. When you begin to get lmore control of your right hand, and the left, as Mike has advised, and begin to play it, try and concentrate on the melody early on.

All the best,
OldFox

Every workplace should have a Banjo Break

R.C - Posted - 10/11/2009:  13:40:45

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wow thats loads thanks alot!
but yeh i am going to have to teach myself using internet etc. will probably buy a book depending on which are sold in my area.
the time i have to practice is quite short but i am dedicated to it so hopefully i'll have it down before say march.thats the deadline i have set anyway weither or not thats achievable is another thing haha

Róisín

OldFox - Posted - 10/11/2009:  14:16:32

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If you dedicate 1/2 hour a day you certainly should have CC well in hand long before March, as well what you learn will be more easily applied to other tunes. Also I don't think many people can stick to one tune alone for that long so you will be learning others as well. You will find that there is always something to learn and it's so much fun that you will be finding ways to get more time in.

OldFox

Every workplace should have a Banjo Break

ramjo - Posted - 10/11/2009:  15:02:01

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Congratulations, Roisin, for aiming to be a banjo player. You seem to be really dedicated, and that's a large part of the battle. Cripple Creek is an appropriate beginners tune, but I would encourage you to listen to what Joel Mabus has to say about playing it. Joel is a clawhammer player, but I believe his advice applies to all styles of playing Cripple Creek. There's a sample on his website from his recording of this tune on Banjo Monologues: http://www.joelmabus.com/05%20-%20a...nologues.mp3 Check it out. And have FUN.

RAM

R.C - Posted - 10/12/2009:  12:41:30

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thanks oldfox but yeh i have to focus on getting one song done at a time. i would like to have a good idea on the song first before i try to introduce other songs into the mix.there is a song that i am hoping you lot would know but it is usually played on the feadog (tin whistle) here but i have heard it being played on the banjo and it sounds pretty good.so i will find out the name and see what you all think!!!

Róisín

555Glenn - Posted - 10/12/2009:  14:19:12

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Most of my students can learn it and chuck it in 3 months

Check Out www.TheBluegrassAcademy.com

Moonpie50 - Posted - 10/13/2009:  10:01:53

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I have been playing about 1 month using the Murphy Method. I am playing banjo in the hallow, Cripple Creek, Cumberland Gap, Bile the Cabbage down, and now learning I saw the light. All I have ever played in my life was an accordian but quit that after a few months, and a dulcimer which I picked up for the first time in march 2009. I am a 50 year old female and decided I was going to do something that I always wanted to do and not let people discourage me doing it. So I am learning how to play music. My goal is to be good and to be able to play with other people in jams, or at church maybe. This is something realistic and in fact I feel like I am doing well. Music has been an unbelievable experience for me so far. It makes you grow as a person socially and spiritually. I will never give it up!

Moonpie

kingfisher78 - Posted - 10/13/2009:  12:22:59

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quote:

---

Originally posted by R.C

hey,
i was wondering if ya could tell me how long if would take to learn cripple creek from the start?like with no experience what so ever of banjo.

i will only have half an hour - one hour a day to play banjo due to school work etc
any advice would do me the world of good!
Róisín

---

In my favourite (beginner/learner) banjo book, cripple creek is the last tune, so don't expect to learn it straight away. There are a few simpler tunes that could be learnt first.

As for practice time. One of the kids here has started guitar lessons. Her teacher says to practice 20 minutes a day. I'm trying to get her to split it up (or add more time) by doing 5 minutes before school and 5 minutes after school. Chuck in 5 minutes at bed time as well.
If (not often) we are watching TV ,I pick up my banjo and play. There's a couple more minutes each add break.

Shane.

Richard Dress - Posted - 10/13/2009:  13:57:18

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5 minutes a day? That's a pretty heavy commitment. Think of all the good stuff on TV that will be missed.

5stringpicker2 - Posted - 10/13/2009:  14:06:30

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Totally depends on which version you choose to learn the most basic version should take you less than a week to play it through at a slow pace and not miss any notes or strings. I would however take the 2 weeks you have b4 getting your Banjo to learn the various rolls associated with Scruggs picking If only going through the motions .

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Oalbrets - Posted - 10/14/2009:  07:55:51

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Moonpie, you have been playing a month an know 4 songs is very very good. Keep up the good work and most of all have fun. You are doing great.

Poverty Ridge Bluegrass

Moonpie50 - Posted - 10/14/2009:  23:31:33

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Well thank you I am proud of my accomplishments so far. But actually it is the MURPHY METHOD. I you follow it as she says to do it works. It is all foundational teaching. I am going to work through every banjo/jam videos she puts out. I am convinced it works.

Moonpie

kingfisher78 - Posted - 10/15/2009:  01:07:53

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Dress

5 minutes a day? That's a pretty heavy commitment. Think of all the good stuff on TV that will be missed.

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I guess you're missquoting my message. She rarely watches TV (as stated), nor does she only practice for 5 minutes a day (as stated).
The point I was making (and I thought was clear) is that if you don't have a lot of time then steal 5 minutes here and there. It all adds up.
For me, I couldn't play for more than 30s at a time to start with. Now I can play for minutes at a time when my arthritis allows, but I pick up my banjo dozens of time a day.
Today I've picked up my banjo('s) a number of times (so far) and I did a little guitar and banjo mandolin, as well, just for kicks.

Róisín, as good as it is to set goals (CC), don't forget to enjoy the journey.

Shane.
http://members.dodo.com.au/~spdeering/

fixdent - Posted - 10/15/2009:  05:25:16

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quote:

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Today I've picked up my banjo('s) a number of times (so far)

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I'm with you shane...I have a muted practice banjo sitting in the living room, and pick it for 5 minutes at a time when I'm waiting for supper, work, tv program. I use it as my time to see if what I have been memorizing in a song is paying off.....no tab to look at.

Then usually about 10pm I get an hour to practice while my wife is watching the news...or 'her' tv program.

I also think Richards's comment about being a heavy commitment...was ment as a jest (joke).
--
Gordon

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Edited by - fixdent on 10/15/2009 05:27:11

R.C - Posted - 10/15/2009:  09:49:54

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ah yeh i know what ya mean! it took me a fair while to even get an idea on what kind of banjo etc i wanted and seeing as music is such a big deal here (ireland) i know well i'll enjoy it but getting to that stage does take a while! i tried guitar and its taken me almost 2 year to learn one song as i was getting annoyed with my progress. i set my goal this year and managed to complete it and now my focus is on the banjo as well!
i have a huge desire to learn masons apron,irish tune, but this will take at least a couple years for me to get that skilled at the banjo. most of yee might know this song and know the difficulty in it!
also many are saying to get the murphys method thing.this is not possible for several reasons but thank you for the suggestions!!!

Róisín

swirlypillow - Posted - 10/15/2009:  11:56:03

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Dress

5 minutes a day? That's a pretty heavy commitment. Think of all the good stuff on TV that will be missed.

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There's always one, every thread...

R.C - Posted - 10/20/2009:  06:34:16

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yes i wish they wouldnt post "funny" comments like that. trying to learn like not get unhelpful posts like that one from richard

thetexan - Posted - 10/20/2009:  07:29:36

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As a beginner it may take you 20 or 30 hours of dilligent practice to get it down, depending on how much of a beginner you are. It's almost an impossible question to answer since there are so many factors.

But here is a fact you can count on. The more experience you have and the more of the banjo 'language' (meaning licks, runs, chords, etc.) you know the less time it will take. Cripple Creek is made up of many standard licks. An experienced player who has never heard of CC before can pick it up in minutes if not seconds because he recognizes what he is hearing, the licks that make up the song. And since he is adept at those licks he simply starts putting them together on the spot.

So as you learn concentrate on listening to and learning as many of the fundamental building blocks of the banjo language and you will be able to pick these songs up more quickly.

tex

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Edited by - thetexan on 10/20/2009 21:50:28

R.C - Posted - 10/22/2009:  08:15:25

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thanks tex thats actually really helpful!
i tried to play guitar but i seriously suck at it so i am doubting weither i should pick up banjo or not at the moment. also banjo's are extremely dear here.

Róisín

R.C - Posted - 10/28/2009:  07:09:28

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changed my mind haha i'm going for banjo.i was listening to masons apron again from ashkay (spelling may be wrong) and i just love the sound of it!
also there is this beautiful version of when irish eyes are smiling on this . really makes me want to run out and buy a banjo! :P

Róisín

backtothefuture - Posted - 10/28/2009:  07:23:22

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Róisín......IMO....as a music teacher (not a great banjo player by any means)....I'll share what I've found.

My first song was CC. After a while I moved on to another song, never really fully mastering CC (meaning playing up to speed). But every time I picked up the the banjo, I played CC as well as whatever else I was working on. IMO, it's good to do something else and come back to what you were doing, in this case, Cripple Creek. I think you will progress faster this way, and not get as bored. Over time, the mistakes will be fewer, and the speed will be faster, from muscle memory.

Again....what worked for me might not work for others.

.

Dennis

barbbanjo - Posted - 10/28/2009:  19:03:01

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Roisin, it seems to me like my first few tunes came a lot slower than they do these days. It might take someone 2 days to learn a tune and it may take you 2 weeks. Just getting the notes down is only the first step. Then you need to get the rhythm and phrasing so it sounds right. I'm a very big fan of Murphy Henry's DVDs. Once you learn the notes from her you can practice playing it slowly along with her to get the phrasing down. It is sooooo much easier than trying to learn it by tab. Good luck!

I missed the post that you can't get Murphy. Wow! I hope you can get a good teacher or online teacher? Maybe I'd better go back and make sure I've got your whole story!

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Edited by - barbbanjo on 10/28/2009 19:07:17

R.C - Posted - 11/13/2009:  12:48:15

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hey barb,
yeh for some reason we dont have a wide selection of banjo dvd's/teachers/books around here which is extremly annoying since i have to spend my days trawling through the internet looking for things.

i have got my banjo and have startted to learn the rolls and i know a chord, C :P
but even finding chords it awkward at the moment.

i have been looking at cripple creek and boil them cabbage down (not sure if i got that right) and i think that if i switch between them i wont lose interest or get frusterated with my progress.

sjyokel - Posted - 11/13/2009:  13:01:43

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quote:

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Originally posted by R.C

yes i wish they wouldnt post "funny" comments like that. trying to learn like not get unhelpful posts like that one from richard

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Ouch.

Richard's a good guy with lots of good advice to offer.

IMHO, it helps to have a sense of humor around here.

R.C - Posted - 11/14/2009:  06:28:20

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but it doesnt help when your trying to find good advice and you have to spend time reading through all the "funny" ones just to get it.

i've no problem with having a laugh and a good sense of humour but seems kind of pointless just to post that without any advice or useful comment along with it

Plunklover - Posted - 11/15/2009:  09:23:34

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I like Richard's attitude.

A good sense of humor is an excellent addition to learning anything.

Learning to spot the humorous in a situation -- including frustration at not learning something -- can be a way of putting things in perspective, backing up, and trying something with a new approach that may work for you. Doing those things will lead to greater achievement in whatever you're trying to learn. And it's gentler on your psyche.

Teachers are often just trying to keep up with the ones who can spot the funny in things. Grim students usually require more intervention when they don't get it.

Did you ever notice how many string band musicians like to tell jokes on stage?

(. . . oh boy, I hope the grim ones get this. Strapping on the kevlar now . . . )

BC Bill - Posted - 11/15/2009:  09:49:57

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If you are having trouble finding instruction and info, and you are already relying on the internet, I suggest trying Tony Trischka's Banjo School.

http://www.tonytrischkaschoolofbanjo.com/

There has been a lot of discussion of the site here on BHO, and there are quite a few BHO regulars enrolled. Banjo News Letter gave the site an excellent review in the current issue. Tony is one of the most respected players/teachers in the world, and the revolutionary approach to on-line learning that is being used by ArtistWorks, is fantastic.

I really recommend that you browse it and see if it interests you.

Bill

email me at lakesidestudio@shaw.ca

R.C - Posted - 11/15/2009:  13:23:20

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thanks i'll check that out! i started cripple creek last night and i am actually surprised how quickly i picked the first bit up!
having a small bit of trouble with the middle part but i'll get it soon hopefully!

do you have to use the picks? i find it easier to play without them.i can move faster and make very ittle mistakes just using my bare fingers .

rickeym - Posted - 11/15/2009:  13:34:35

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I think it's best to start with picks in the beginning. The sooner you do, the quicker you'll get used to them. They will feel awkward in the beginning, but in a few days you will adjust.

quote:

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Originally posted by R.C

thanks i'll check that out! i started cripple creek last night and i am actually surprised how quickly i picked the first bit up!
having a small bit of trouble with the middle part but i'll get it soon hopefully!

do you have to use the picks? i find it easier to play without them.i can move faster and make very ittle mistakes just using my bare fingers .

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backtothefuture - Posted - 11/15/2009:  15:42:37

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quote:

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Originally posted by R.C



.....do you have to use the picks? i find it easier to play without them.i can move faster and make very ittle mistakes just using my bare fingers .

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Picks just take getting used to. Do you have to use them? Well, I looked at the topic of this thread and it says, "Bluegrass (Scruggs) Styles." So I would say "yes" to picks. Earl plays with picks, right?

Really....after a while, you will feel like that's the only way to play. In other words....you'll get used to them.

.

Dennis