Gomer - Posted - 08/28/2009:  07:46:51

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Anybody tired the taller bridges? Is it for tone or for playabilty or for sinking a shekel or two in the Good MR. Veerman's pocket?

"ever searching for that special post-war / pre-submerged sound"

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1four5 - Posted - 08/28/2009:  07:55:47

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One you climb to the top, you'll never climb back down. I LOVE mine. POW!!! I also like the breathing room, much less head hitting for my sloppy playing

Dean

silvioferretti - Posted - 08/28/2009:  08:05:41

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I used 11/16" Snuffies for about 10 years (OK, that's not "the top"), then went back to 5/8"s around 1992 and I'm staying there. I have a .656" bridge on my Scorpion, but that's as tall as I can stand. To my ear tone gets less warm and less round with taller bridges, and my right hand feels way up in the air, so I don't see why I should climb to the top again.

"If you''re gonna have a vice, try to find one that will keep you outta jail and maybe alive a little longer" - Alvin Youngblood Hart.

Silvio Ferretti http://www.scorpionmusic.com
http://www.redwinemusic.net

Thor - Posted - 08/28/2009:  08:22:46

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I believe Scott Vestal's Stealth was the first "production" banjo to use a 3/4" bridge as stock.

I would think that he based this decision on right hand playability as well as tone for the Stealth. However, the actual design of the Stealth may have figured into it -- since it's a shorter scale, the bridge is slightly closer to the center of the head which alters the tone, so a higher bridge may have been a way to achieve the overall tone that he was looking for.

As Silvio says, if his tone gets less warm and round with a taller bridge, perhaps on the Stealth, this is offset by the bridge location. I think my Stealth has a very warm, round tone-- other people have actually commented on this when they hear my banjo (but my banjo is also all walnut)

I wouldn't expect the exact same results on a standard scale banjo with a 3/4" bridge.
Plus, if I were to attempt going from 5/8" to 3/4" on a "standard" 5-string banjo, I would definitely have the heel recut so that I could have the action where I like it (~ 3/32" at the 12th fret)

It took me a day or two to get used to it, and also being radiused, I *really* like the playability for the right hand.

Even though I have pretty long fingers, I don't think I would go much higher (like Béla's 1" bridge).

note: I'm not a luthier, so I can only speak from speculation and personal experience.

youdye - Posted - 08/28/2009:  09:08:01

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Is the air thinner up there?

Mike Montgomery

4+1=Hootnanny!
O==''={::}

desert rose - Posted - 08/28/2009:  09:12:07

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Requests for 3/4 bridges increased enough that last year I had tooling made to match my normal tooling to make these in production.

Before Id have to literally hand make one but started getting more requests so I had no choice but to tool up.

I have a couple pros who use them and wont use anything shorter

I have after a lot of testing decided that 3/4 is the limit, any taller and the potential benefits to tone are negated by the excessive weight of a 1 inch bridge

Scott

Desert Rose Musical Instruments
www.desertrosebanjo.com

xnavyguy - Posted - 08/28/2009:  11:25:36

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Based on my experience, building and testing bridges last year, I agree with Scott about the difficulty with the excess weight of taller bridges. When I built these two 3/4" prototypes for Dean (1four5) and Hazen, I was a bit shocked when their weights came in at 3.3 and around 3.5 grams, respectively. A lot of the weight is due to the ebony in the caps, something I don't usually use for bridge caps. We had tested, with good results, some very heavy (3.5 grams) bamboo bridges last year but I was still a bit doubtful these things would perform. The radiused bridge wound up with a 7/8" string height for the middle string. These are vertical grain bridges and I expect the vertical grain orientation keeps these things from going tubby like you might expect a standard bridge to do. I haven't actually heard these things on a banjo so I have to depend on Dean and Hazen for their experience on whether or not they work.



Jerry

"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we''re here we should dance."

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Edited by - xnavyguy on 08/28/2009 11:26:53

Bill Rogers - Posted - 08/28/2009:  11:31:37

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Gary Sosebee made me some 3/4" for my Weymann, which has a poorly set neck and action too low for clawhammer with any shorter bridge. They work fine. I thinned them down, which I do anyway with many bridges.

Bill

Hankulator - Posted - 08/28/2009:  11:54:31

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after all my experimenting around i like the snuffy smith .656. i don't have the time or money to try all the bridges out there (even though i'd like to).

Hank

Bart Veerman - Posted - 08/28/2009:  12:12:09

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Picking wise: for three fingers style players it's usually a playability question while for clawhammer players it shouldn't really make any difference. It's pretty easy to find out whether your fingers like that height - slide a popsicle stick under an 11/16" (2 of them for a 5/8") and there's your 3/4" height.
Sound/tone wise: they tend to be a little heavier so you gotta watch out you don't loose out on the treble.
My own fingers just don't work at those altitudes, they much prefer 9/16" but hey, that's me, the shekelician


Bart.
"may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion"

free clawhammer and three finger tabs
royalty free original banjo tunes

1four5 - Posted - 08/28/2009:  12:53:12

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quote:

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Is the air thinner up there?

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Is that why I'm alway out of breathe when I'm picking lately?

Dean

bluemule_77 - Posted - 08/28/2009:  13:30:51

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I use a 3/4" rosewood Lamson bridge. My 1987 Reiter fairly demands an 11/16" or better. With the 3/4" bridge and a fairly tight (but not overly tight) skin head, action is usually around 5/32" at the 12th fret.

BM

Gomer - Posted - 08/28/2009:  21:50:00

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Thank you kindly.

"ever searching for that special post-war / pre-submerged sound"

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stormoveroklahoma - Posted - 08/29/2009:  18:52:11

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11/16" is way more comfortable for my hand.

The wave of the future for banjos is Stainless Steel frets (never wear out) and compensated bridges for overall tonal harmony all over the fret board. I got my compensated bridge from Arthur Hatfield right here at the hangout. He used to charge twenty dollars a bridge probably still does. Mine is 11/16" high and is the best sounding bridge I have ever had on my Gibson.

I always used Snuffy Smith bridges until mathematically I realized that all banjos need compensation for the B and G strings either at the nut or bridge or you have to pull and or push the notes to correct pitch with your left hand. I prefer compensated bridges to all the pushing and bending I used to do.



Storm

Gomer - Posted - 08/29/2009:  20:02:49

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Mr Tracey, I pretty much agree. If you take a look at my home page photos you will see what Bart Veerman came up with after a good deal of time trying to recking the compensation for each string. When I look at your Hatfield, they look the same to my eyes.

"ever searching for that special post-war / pre-submerged sound"

( )=====’==::

xnavyguy - Posted - 09/02/2009:  06:01:08

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When I was building Dean & Hazen's tall bridges with the very wide string spacing, shown in the photo in my earlier post, I had started another one that I broke while I was building it. Monday, I decided to put it back together and finish it. I radiused the top, slightly with the middle string height at 7/8". Since I was still curious about the feel and performance of such a tall and heavy (3.3gram) bridge, I asked Art to bring his Fender Artist over to my house yesterday so we could try the tall wide bridge out. The bridge we replaced is the one just below the upper right bridge in this photo which has a Texas mesquite base capped with purpleheart, weighing in at 2.4 grams, 5/8" string height with standard (42mm) string spacing.



We did not leave the tall bridge on the banjo for very long but it was on the banjo long enough that we were able to determine that it did work and there was no compromise in the overall performance of the banjo.

If anything, the maple/ebony tall Dam bridge may have been slightly better balanced than the mesquite Wave but might not have been quite as clear in the middle part of the neck. The Waves aren't the most powerful of Art's bridge designs but they sure have a "sweet" quality that is pretty hard to beat.

Even with the wide string spacing, all 5 strings covered the fretboard. Both Art and I took turns playing the banjo and I couldn't tell that the wider string spacing, in any way affected my ability to accurately pick the strings, but then, even on my good days, I'm not that accurate anyway. Neither did I notice the additional 1/4" of height. I would bet, though, that for someone who is more experienced than me, it could take a bit of getting use to the much taller bridge.

I suppose, bottom line, that there are some upsides to having taller bridges and wider string spacing. In the end, it is going to come down to the preferences of the individual picker. The big shock for me, with this little test was the fact that we increased the mass of the bridge by 50% with no compromises to the tone of the banjo.

Jerry

"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we''re here we should dance."

plunknplinkntwang - Posted - 09/02/2009:  15:50:45

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gomer

Anybody tired the taller bridges? Is it for tone or for playabilty or for sinking a shekel or two in the Good MR. Veerman's pocket?

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Sort of both - Playability further towards the neck which improves the tone. Also the combined reasons that 1four5 & Bill Rogers gave.

too old to be cool - too young to realise

Roll Player - Posted - 09/02/2009:  17:14:29

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quote:

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Originally posted by xnavyguy

When I was building Dean & Hazen's tall bridges with the very wide string spacing, shown in the photo in my earlier post, I had started another one that I broke while I was building it. Monday, I decided to put it back together and finish it. I radiused the top, slightly with the middle string height at 7/8". Since I was still curious about the feel and performance of such a tall and heavy (3.3gram) bridge, I asked Art to bring his Fender Artist over to my house yesterday so we could try the tall wide bridge out. The bridge we replaced... has a Texas mesquite base capped with purpleheart, weighing in at 2.4 grams, 5/8" string height with standard (42mm) string spacing.

We did not leave the tall bridge on the banjo for very long but it was on the banjo long enough that we were able to determine that it did work and there was no compromise in the overall performance of the banjo.

If anything, the maple/ebony tall Dam bridge may have been slightly better balanced than the mesquite Wave but might not have been quite as clear in the middle part of the neck. The Waves aren't the most powerful of Art's bridge designs but they sure have a "sweet" quality that is pretty hard to beat.

Even with the wide string spacing, all 5 strings covered the fretboard. Both Art and I took turns playing the banjo and I couldn't tell that the wider string spacing, in any way affected my ability to accurately pick the strings, but then, even on my good days, I'm not that accurate anyway. Neither did I notice the additional 1/4" of height. I would bet, though, that for someone who is more experienced than me, it could take a bit of getting use to the much taller bridge.

I suppose, bottom line, that there are some upsides to having taller bridges and wider string spacing. In the end, it is going to come down to the preferences of the individual picker. The big shock for me, with this little test was the fact that we increased the mass of the bridge by 50% with no compromises to the tone of the banjo.

Jerry

"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we''re here we should dance."

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Just my take on this taller bridge: I did feel that it had a slight muting effect compared to the shorter bridge, that is, there was a slight loss of volume, maybe 2 or 3 db, and slightly weaker mids. To my surprise, this heavy bridge did not have excessive sustain, like a typical heavy conventional bridge, and the tone was good.

For my right hand, which is pretty small for a guy, the extra height and wider string spacing felt uncomfortable, not enough to make the banjo unplayable (if the action were adjusted appropriately), but it's definitely not my preference.

Art

The trouble with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.

Mopick - Posted - 09/03/2009:  04:41:44

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I recently purchased a .656 Kateyz bridge with Crowe spacing to replace the 5/8 that came on my Gibson. I like it OK, but it seems like the Crowe spacing puts the strings too close to the edge of the neck and I have a tendency to push the first string over the side. I'm thinking of going back to the 5/8. I figure they knew what they were doing in the factory when they built the thing. It's like my Jeep Wrangler. I have bigger tires on it than came with it, but I haven't lifted it. My friends put 6 and 8 inch lift kits, spring over axle conversions, 44 inch tires. All that changes the engineering, the pinion angle, the pittman arm, track bar, everything. I keep mine pretty close to factory and it does good. I may not go through the deep mud those guys go through, but I don't tear up stuff as much either. LOL.

I live in the mountains.....
The mountainous region of Central Florida.
Sugarloaf Mountain; 312 feet above sea level.

Randy

1four5 - Posted - 09/03/2009:  07:33:14

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I fell in love with the 3/4" bridge the first time I went to that height. It works better with my long fingers and hand mechanics. The ever so slight change in vertical pick angle smoths out my playing, and as mentioned, better playability and less headhitting towards the neck. The real proof for me however,was going back and forth between my two banjos, one with the 3/4" bridge and 2" string spacing, and the other with the 5/8" bridge and 1 7/8" spacing. I did this for about 3 weeks, and the difference was undeniable for my preferences (I did this on purpose). Going from the tall wide bridge, to the shorter closer bridge was hard and uncomfortable and took a good 10-20 minutes to settle in and play clean. Going from the shorter closer bridge, to the tall wide bridge was like being set free and I was playing cleaner and more enjoyable immediately. After several weeks and a consistant outcome, last weekend I re-setup my second banjo with a 3/4" bridge (still with 1 7/8" spacing max because it's a traditional sized fretboard) and I liked the outcome right away. I does sound better, but I don't know if that's because of the banjo or my improved right hand mechanics. It's still not as comfortable to play as my other banjo (with the 2" spacing), but the taller bridge certianly helps. I'm definately a convert. But, if I had smaller hands it could be a totally different story. And I run into the same thing Randy does if I go any wider spacing on my traditional banjo... the strings get too close to the edge and I'll pull them off.

Dean