delle - Posted - 08/27/2008:  12:11:29

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Hello,

it is hard for me to bring this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7stjwPjk8s0 in conjunction with the tab in Dan's "Festival Tunes" book.
Will it come with the speed ?

r/Delle

BANJOJUDY - Posted - 08/27/2008:  12:40:06

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quote:

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Originally posted by delle

Hello,

it is hard for me to bring this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7stjwPjk8s0 in conjunction with the tab in Dan's "Festival Tunes" book.
Will it come with the speed ?

r/Delle

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I find it so weird that you are talking about Chinese Breakdown because I've been diddling with it for the past day!

I came upon Dan's YouTube video when I did a general search for Chinese Breakdown, but he is playing in double D (very nicely) and our local band always plays it in double C. I checked out the short video with Adam Hurt, Marcy Marxter and Cathy Fink, and they are also playing in double C.

I love Dan's version and am playing it in double C, which is merely the same tuning he has without the capo raised. I can keep up with Dan, but now I want to CLUCK when I play. Hence, I asked Dan in an earlier email if he would be including cluck instruction in his February workshop in Arizona.

Speed is not nearly important when learning a tune as just playing the right notes. Speed comes eventually, and I hate it when I sound rushed, so just play it.

Judy

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oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/27/2008:  13:23:33

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I've never met a fiddler who played it in D. I suggest you stick with C.

If you are interested in what I say and would like to know more, it ony cost the price of an email. Write me at:
oldwoodchuckb@yahoo.com
and I will send you a copy of the entire Rocket Science Banjo with all the text now in PDF, plus all the exercise tabs and jpgs as well as "25 tunes" (which is now up to about 38) in banjo tab, playable with the MIDI built into your computer, so you can play along at whatever speed you choose to set.
put RSB in the subject line.
I neither keep nor re-use your email

You can watch the videos for some Rocket Science Banjo subjects starting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdRuf4X0X7g
Banjo Brad is hosting How To Mold A Mighty Pinky adn other material at
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

Clawdan - Posted - 08/27/2008:  13:54:12

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Ah guess so, perhaps we haven't met. Dan here. You've met one now. Bob Carlin also plays it in D on Bangin and Sawin and I guess he isn't too well known (don't remember who fiddled that on there sorry). Stacy Phillips writes it in his Phillips Collection of Traditional American Fiddle Tunes volume 1 (Mel Bay 94711) in D and credits it (I am assuming in that key) to Lyman Enloe. He (Stacy) also comment, "This tune is also played in C." Some of you may also recognize this by its recorded name of "The Merry Go Round Went Round" or remember it from the schoolyard play party chant, "My mother was a steamboat, my father was a duck..." or that's all folks Merry Melody tune.

As to reconciling my version in OTFest Tunes... book vs. video (after all that was Delle's question) I will have to see the video again (sorry, on dial up here in rural Ohio) and comment after that. I can guess however, that as is often discussed, the "written" version of any tune is just a guide and the "up to speed, played for max variations" - as it would have been at the camp it was filmed at (clawcamp west 2008 - yes Judy, we'll cluck a bunch at this years). Then there is always the possibility I played the wrong tune (or mis-titled what I played) but I would hope someone would have said something by now.

Play nice ,
Dan "Ain''t no bum-ditty" Levenson
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Get started right with Dan''s Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch - Book and DVD (Mel Bay Publications)

BANJOJUDY - Posted - 08/27/2008:  14:13:22

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For me, Double D tuning and A tuning is always easier than Double C and G tuning.

Why? The friggin neck is shorter, the frets are easier to reach, and my left arm doesn't tire.

So, when I have the opportunity to stay in one tuning, I will choose either double D or A - and if nobody is playing with me, it doesn't make a rat's ass bit of difference. I just give the guiartist a capo and tell him to live with the tuning. As long as nobody is singing a tune, why should it matter what tuning it is in?



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Have you visited the Tune of The Week area
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J-Walk - Posted - 08/27/2008:  15:04:58

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Hmmmm... I just watched that video and Dan is playing in Double D tuning.

BTW, I'm the person who recorded and posted it. It was a Clawcamp West in February. I don't think Dan played anything in Double C tuning that entire weekend.

Don Borchelt - Posted - 08/27/2008:  15:23:54

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This is what the Fiddler's Companion had to say on the subject:

"CHINESE BREAKDOWN [1]. AKA and see "Georgia Bust-Down," "Georgia Breakdown." Old-Time, Breakdown; Canadian, Reel. USA; New Hampshire, Va., Alabama, Arkansas. D Major (Messer, Miskoe & Paul, Phillips). Standard. AABB (Messer): AA'BB' (Miskoe & Paul). The tune was recorded from Ozark Mountain fiddlers by musicologist/folklorist Vance Randolph for the Library of Congress in the early 1940's. Sources for notated versions: Kyle Creed (southwestern Va.) [Brody]; Lyman Enloe [Phillips]; Arthur Mitchell (Concord, N.H.) via Omer Marcoux [Miskoe & Paul]. Messer (Anthology of Favorite Fiddle Tunes), 1980; No. 19, pg. 20. Miskoe & Paul (Omer Marcoux), 1994; pg. 22. Phillips (Traditional American Fiddle Tunes), Vol. 1, 1994; pg. 49. Alcazar Dance Series ALC 202, Sandy Bradley - "Potluck and Dance Tonite!" (1979). Brunswick 221 (78 RPM), Jack Reedy & His Walker Mountain String Band (reissued on "Music From The Lost Provinces"). County 762, Lyman Enloe- "Fiddle Tunes I Recall." Decca 5069 (78 RPM) {1934}, The Stripling Brothers (Ala.). Folkways FA 2492, The New Lost City Ramblers- "String Band Instrumentals" (1964. Learned from Earl Scrugg's older brother, Junie, and altered from then). Fretless 136, The Arm and Hammer String Band- "Stay on the Farm." Marimac 9000, Dan Gellert & Shoofly - "Forked Deer" (1986. "Inspired by an old McGee Brothers record"). Okeh 45103 (78 RPM), Scottdale String Band. QRS 9010, Hoke Rice. Rebel 1545, Curly Ray Cline- "Why Me Ralph?" Rural Records RRCF 252 (1970), Curly Fox (Ga.). Romeo 5345/Conqueror 8241 (78 RPM), Carolina Ramblers String Band. Rounder 1133/1134, Ed Hayley - "Grey Eagle, Vol. 2" (a four-part version). Voyager 340, Jim Herd - "Old Time Ozark Fiddling." Victor Records (78 RPM), the Skillet Lickers (1934).

CHINESE BREAKDOWN [2]. Old-Time, Breakdown. USA, Va. C Major. Standard. AA'BB'. A recognizable version of "Chinese Breakdown" [1], especially in the structure of the tune. Brody (Fiddler's Fakebook), 1983; pg. 67. Mountain 301, Kyle Creed- "Blue Ridge Style Square Dance Time.""


"My first stringed instrument was a cigar box banjo where I cut and turned the pegs and strung the wires myself." - Carl Sandburg
Check out my webpage.

Clawdan - Posted - 08/27/2008:  15:35:15

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Hi folks,
Site working again, so perhaps I can clarify some. I called Judy to chat and we came onto the subject so I asked her to link the video. (We have dial up here in rural ohio - only thing available other than satellite but Mc C says he'll change that - one can but hope). Upon listening it sounded low to me, but over a phone line and Judy said C, so that's why we posted what we posted. ANYWAY, take Jwalk's word for it as he recorded and posted it, he was there. I'm sure we'll all double check it with at reference note in any case just to be sure (hey, you know what they say, just cause you are paranoid... - I even wanted to make sure that was the right tune name! Hey, I'm tired. Lots of driving this month but that's another thread).

Bottom line, Delle, you are a bit unclear as to what you are unable to "reconcile" but somehow we got on key, when you in fact never mention that and I hope we have cleared THAT up.

I have several thoughts in any case. If there is a key mismatch (vid to book) it is not intentional rather situational. I go to the tuning needed to play a tune and key is incidental unless playing with a fiddler who has dictated the key, or a song in which case we pitch to voice. As we posted a bit earlier, there is a reference cd with the book for banjo versions and reference filed free at mel bay for the fiddle line (which plays the standard notation one) and that would be the reference for the tab WITH THE FOLLOWING NOTE: (quoted from the text on page 7) "So, I decided what would serve you best is a single interpretive composite version of each tune played on the banjo at moderate speed. These are enough like the written versions to let you hear how the tune goes but hey are NOT an exact playing of what has been written...."

These are the only reference recordings one should expect to go with the book version though by sheer coincidence you will likely find others. My versions are based upon the common playing at the time of the writing. You do point out the variety of music - even versions of a tune under a title - that makes it so interesting and open to variation and interpretation. The written material, as has been stated, is but a starting point to this wonderful music. Everybody plays it a little different as we put our mark on such a wonderful standard.

If you have more specific questions, please, feel free to elaborate here and I'll address them as well as I can within the context of the written material. Great discussion by the way.

Play nice ,
Dan "Ain''t no bum-ditty" Levenson
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Get started right with Dan''s Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch - Book and DVD (Mel Bay Publications)

BANJOJUDY - Posted - 08/27/2008:  15:39:29

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Dan and I had a little discussion about the tuning. He cannot get onto YouTube with dialup, so he asked to hear it over the phone, and it was difficult to figure out anything at that point.

Jaywalk - you are correct. He (Dan) is playing in D on the video, although it was hard to tell what key it was in while I was watching because he is not using a capo, and I was playing along without a capo and just going up and down the neck to harmonize - hence, I could have been in C or D or Q for all I know (Yes, I am blonde -sorry).

Here's why you tune to certain tunings in the first place:

1) Play with the fiddler if you are playing with one
2) Tune to the vocalist's favorite key
3) Play to make it easiest on the fingering for the banjo player.

# 3 doesn't get used unless # 1 and # 2 are not available.

I was planning on presenting CHinese Breakdown if I ever did another TUne of the Week. Plan gone to pot - will find another tune before my next turn.

Stay tuned....!

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Have you visited the Tune of The Week area
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October by emailing me at inquiry@siliconheights.com.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/27/2008:  16:32:19

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I guess it is another case where the festival stylists have changed the key for convienience. I suspect that pretty soon there will be no keys but A and D at these things. Round here we stick to the original keys - even if it does result in a little re-tuning.

If you are interested in what I say and would like to know more, it ony cost the price of an email. Write me at:
oldwoodchuckb@yahoo.com
and I will send you a copy of the entire Rocket Science Banjo with all the text now in PDF, plus all the exercise tabs and jpgs as well as "25 tunes" (which is now up to about 38) in banjo tab, playable with the MIDI built into your computer, so you can play along at whatever speed you choose to set.
put RSB in the subject line.
I neither keep nor re-use your email

You can watch the videos for some Rocket Science Banjo subjects starting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdRuf4X0X7g
Banjo Brad is hosting How To Mold A Mighty Pinky adn other material at
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

BANJOJUDY - Posted - 08/27/2008:  16:36:24

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I went through my Chinese Breakdown recordings and found that all but one were in D. The only one in C was an authoharp recording on a Doc Watson album, Treasures Untold.

The ones in double d included recordings by:

Adam Hurt
Benton Flippin
Bob Carlin
Dan Levenson
Kirk Sutphin
Ken Waldman
New Lost City Ramblers
Wild Turkeys
Howell and Philips
Palmer and Doug Loux

So there you have it - and, add to this the fact that Steve Kaufman's guitar book shows it in D and the Mike Seeger mandolin book shows it in D.

THe DEEES have it!!! I deem it a D tune (although we play it in C in ABQ). At least the fingering is the same!!!

Judy


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Have you visited the Tune of The Week area
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J-Walk - Posted - 08/27/2008:  17:01:52

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quote:

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I guess it is another case where the festival stylists have changed the key for convienience. I suspect that pretty soon there will be no keys but A and D at these things.

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Last OT jam I went to, I brought two banjos: one tuned to G, the other in Double D. If I recall, I only had to retune once the entire time (from D to A, for one tune). So, at least in my neck of the woods, G and D are the favorite keys. Or, maybe we just chose the tunes because they were in the same key as the previous one.

chip arnold - Posted - 08/27/2008:  19:22:57

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In jams I get to at festivals and otherwise, I find keys in pretty much this order: D, A, G, Sawmill (A or G) C, F Sometimes an E minor tune gets in there. When there are singers, all bets are off. I love C tunes on the banjo though I don't know a whole lot of them.

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

Don Borchelt - Posted - 08/27/2008:  20:10:44

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woodchuck wrote: "I guess it is another case where the festival stylists have changed the key for convienience. " I learned Cinese Breakdown about 40 years ago from a bunch of older guys who had moved to Cincinnati from eastern Kentucky. They played the tune in D, and this was before our modern festivals really got going. If I recall correctly- and perhaps I don't- the Skillet Lickers played it in D on the Corn Licker Still recording done around 1930. I don't doubt it may have actually started as a C tune, but I'm pretty sure it's been played in D for a very long time.


"My first stringed instrument was a cigar box banjo where I cut and turned the pegs and strung the wires myself." - Carl Sandburg
Check out my webpage.

Clawdan - Posted - 08/27/2008:  20:13:29

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quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

I guess it is another case where the festival stylists have changed the key for convienience. I suspect that pretty soon there will be no keys but A and D at these things. Round here we stick to the original keys - even if it does result in a little re-tuning.
...

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Lyman Enloe is the reference Stacy Phillips used for his D version and is certainly not a "festival stylist" nor for that matter am I. Born and raised southern app. and btw, the tune is a Cakewalk and was quite the popular tune in its day. But, perhaps you didn't notice that post. I'm sure it was played at many fiddle contests and frolics that were the festivals of the day and surely attended by many folks.

'Course, you had to leave home to do much of that as those old timers will tell ya. It is their travel (caus they was a workin!) that spread these tunes so far and wide to begin with. Guess that's why I don't stay home much.

AND OH, Chip, LOVES THOSE GEORGIA C tunes!

Play nice ,
Dan "Ain''t no bum-ditty" Levenson
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Get started right with Dan''s Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch - Book and DVD (Mel Bay Publications)

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Edited by - Clawdan on 08/27/2008 20:16:14

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/27/2008:  20:38:21

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Apparently I got off on the wrong tune again.
I just listened to a couple "Chinese Breakdown" recordings and if I ever played that tune it hasn't been in the last couple decades.

The tune that I glommed onto from reading the title was indeed a C tune and probably had rag in the title -- so if there's a Chinese Rag floating around in the old time tune list that's prolly it. If not - maybe the title will come to me later. Text is not the best way to communicate music.

So re: Chinese Breakdown............ never mind.

If you are interested in what I say and would like to know more, it ony cost the price of an email. Write me at:
oldwoodchuckb@yahoo.com
and I will send you a copy of the entire Rocket Science Banjo with all the text now in PDF, plus all the exercise tabs and jpgs as well as "25 tunes" (which is now up to about 38) in banjo tab, playable with the MIDI built into your computer, so you can play along at whatever speed you choose to set.
put RSB in the subject line.
I neither keep nor re-use your email

You can watch the videos for some Rocket Science Banjo subjects starting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdRuf4X0X7g
Banjo Brad is hosting How To Mold A Mighty Pinky adn other material at
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

Clawdan - Posted - 08/28/2008:  04:50:24

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Great to be the cause of re-investigating our memory, eh? Mine sure is getting fuzzy these days. Takes a lot to say it out loud. Thanks owc. Still, great to find out all that info on such a wonderful tune. Wouldn't have done it without ya. The joy of being one of the "keepers of the tunes" and also the frustration. Still mix up Magpie and Cuffy.

Play nice ,
Dan "Ain''t no bum-ditty" Levenson
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Get started right with Dan''s Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch - Book and DVD (Mel Bay Publications)

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/28/2008:  09:12:37

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I'll be going senior moment crazy until I find a recording that matches the tune in my head. Perhaps I should record it myself - maybe even give it a title - that'll get it identified fast! They'll come out of the swamps to sue me.

If you are interested in what I say and would like to know more, it ony cost the price of an email. Write me at:
oldwoodchuckb@yahoo.com
and I will send you a copy of the entire Rocket Science Banjo with all the text now in PDF, plus all the exercise tabs and jpgs as well as "25 tunes" (which is now up to about 38) in banjo tab, playable with the MIDI built into your computer, so you can play along at whatever speed you choose to set.
put RSB in the subject line.
I neither keep nor re-use your email

You can watch the videos for some Rocket Science Banjo subjects starting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdRuf4X0X7g
Banjo Brad is hosting How To Mold A Mighty Pinky adn other material at
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

Clawdan - Posted - 08/28/2008:  11:10:38

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quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb
...- that'll get it identified fast! They'll come out of the swamps to sue me.

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But then you'll know! How bout at least posting it on your home page. Then we can all listen. That might do it cheeper!

Play nice ,
Dan "Ain''t no bum-ditty" Levenson
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Get started right with Dan''s Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch - Book and DVD (Mel Bay Publications)

delle - Posted - 08/28/2008:  11:19:56

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Hi,

sorry, my english is to bad, I can't express it precisely.
Like a Tab which can not explain a song, how it should be played.

Thats what I have mentioned.

Regards from Germany
Delle