brudford - Posted - 03/12/2008:  19:36:57

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Both the Enoch Tradesman and Bart Reiter standard model are around
930-950$ with the scooped neck. I heard Zepp play the Tradesman on his site both cherry and walnut like the sound of both. Does anyone
have any comments on either that may own one or both ? I'am
going to buy one or the other. Kevin Enoch has someone make them for him in Maryland and then he goes over each one. I really don't care either or about the truss rod in the Reiter or the carbon fiber rod in the Tradesman. I'am purley looking at sound,and quality of build and materials and must be American made. Thanks

superdave - Posted - 03/12/2008:  20:04:12

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I just bought a Reiter std. a few weeks ago and it is my go to banjo right now even though I own several others. I have had lots of good comments on the tone, and Bart's fit and finish are as good as it gets. Nice thing about the std. is you can stuff the head and quiet it down or play it as is and get plenty of volume when needed. Some people like the shorter scale banjo's. I own both and don't really notice much of a difference.
Dave

jbalch - Posted - 03/12/2008:  23:21:45

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These are two very different banjos...both are well made...it is really just a matter of taste:

Reiter Standard - 11" thick maple rim w/brass hoop tone ring. The sound will be clear and focused. This banjo is capable of a wide range of tones...due to set up. Bart's banjos have excellent necks and are usually set-up for low, comfortable action above the frets. (Disclaimer: I've been on record recommending Bart's banjos for many years...I have four (4) various Reiter models).

The Tradesman - 12" 10-ply very-thin rim with no tone ring. The sound is big and tubby. The Tradesman tends to come set-up with high string action. (Too high for me...I had to swap for a 9/16" or 1/2" bridge personally). In my opinion, the neck is the best part of the banjo. They are comfortable to hold and good-looking. Because of the nature of the rim...the Tradesman might be a less-versatile choice. Depending on your wants...it might be the perfect choice. (I owned a Tradesman for several months...but do not have one currently).




www.johnbalchmusic.com
www.myspace.com/johnbalch

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Edited by - jbalch on 03/12/2008 23:22:23

Bill Rogers - Posted - 03/12/2008:  23:22:13

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I own neither but have played both several times. Quality and materials are top-flight in both cases. Either would be a good choice--which one to pick depends strictly on your own taste. The Enoch is mellower and "woody." The Standard has a simple tone ring and is brighter, and arguably somewhat louder. The Enoch is a 12" banjo, the Reiter an 11". That makes a difference for some. My basic sense is that if you play--or expect to play--in a string band, the Reiter would be preferable because it's louder. In the end, neither is better--just different.

Bill

fergler - Posted - 03/13/2008:  11:25:37

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I've been playing banjo for a little over a year, and have been thinking about buying a second banjo. I currently play a Goldtone White Ladye, which I enjoy. I'd like to get something with a more mellow sound, and have been considering an Enoch Tradesman. Does anyone have any thoughts on the flush fretted banjo vs. the fretted? What are the pros and cons? I have problems with slides, and thought that a fretless would help them become easier and smoother. I like the idea of the flush fretted rather than completely fretless, since I'm still learning.

Jennifer

jbalch - Posted - 03/13/2008:  17:12:17

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Hello Jennifer:

Welcome to the banjohangout.

The Tradesman would certainly be a more mellow banjo and a nice complement to your Gold Tone.

As for flush-frets. I think they are a great idea. My fretless banjos do not have them...and I wish they did. You learn to play without the visual clues...but it is easier and more fun with them.

Good Luck!


www.johnbalchmusic.com
www.myspace.com/johnbalch

BConk - Posted - 03/13/2008:  19:46:25

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Jenifer - Welcome to the Hangout

Though I generally agree with John about many things I guess this is not one of them.

I owned a flush fret as my first fretless banjo and I didn't like it at all so I sold it off and bought a full fretless banjo. I found it quite a bit easier to learn after I bought a fretless and moved the bridge until I found a position that was better suited to my hands. With a flush fret if you want to use the flush frets as indicators you're limited to the precise scale length that the fret positions delineate.

If you usually play a fretted banjo you become used to positioning your fingers somewhere between two frets to sound a note. It's not that important where you position your fingers - as long as it's somewhere in that inch or so of space between those frets you'll get the note you want.

When you play fretless, however, you don't get that note unless you're precisely on the fret position. This can make a 27+ inch scale flush fret banjo seem HUGE when you try to stretch to make that note. While it may seem counter intuitive, I think you're better off with the flexibility of a full fretless banjo if you're thinking of going the fretless route. Then - if the scale's too long and you're hitting the notes flat - move the bridge closer.

You can always make temporary marks along the neck with small bits of tape for reference while you're learning but before too long I think you won't even be looking at them for most of your playing below the 5th fret.


http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists...4644&alid=-1

jbalch - Posted - 03/13/2008:  20:08:50

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Those are very good points Brian...my favorite fretless is a shorter-than-standard scale. It does seem easier to play...for the very reason you mention.

I probably shouldn't comment too much on the whole fretless thing anyway. Although I have a few fretless banjos...they really don't get much use.





www.johnbalchmusic.com
www.myspace.com/johnbalch

KE - Posted - 03/13/2008:  20:58:09

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There is a Reiter Standard at www.elderly.com currently for $795. It's EC+ condition, which usually means its overstock commissioned by Bart, as new but without warranty.

I tried both a Tradesman and a Reiter standard (both fretless) side-by-side and bought the Tradesman. I loved them both. They were not one better than the other; just different in sound and feel. I already had a Reiter Regent so it was easy enough to decide. I've played about 10 Tradesman and all have been excellent. IMO the Tradesman is at least as loud as any of my others, and has a lush rich sonority.

fergler - Posted - 03/13/2008:  23:00:19

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Thank you all for the advice. Old Town School of Folk Music had a couple of Enochs in stock, so I stopped off and gave them a try. The Tradesman definitely has a beautiful mellow sound...just what I'm looking for. I guess I'm not really clear on why the fingering position might be a bit different on a fretted banjo vs. fretless. Can someone elaborate?

Thanks again for all your help.

KE - Posted - 03/13/2008:  23:37:59

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Sure, I'll try. The scale length on a fretless is arbitrary. It just depends on where you set the bridge. If you want a shorter scale length, just move the bridge toward the nut and away from the tailpiece. You can't do that on a fretted banjo without messing up the intonation. The frets are positioned at specific set fractions of the scale length. Since a flush fret indicates the fixed positions of frets for a specific scale length, you need to stick to that particular scale length if you are going to use the frets as a guide.

You mentioned switching because of easier slides on a fretless. I play both fretted and fretless, and I wouldn't say it is easier. Sounds different (more of a trombone gliss) and lets you hit some microtones that sound cool, but I would not say it is easier at all.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 03/13/2008:  23:48:58

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A lot depends on the nature of your playing. I play very differently on a fretless compared to my usual fretted instruments. If your playing is chord-based, a fretless can be difficult. It also is harder to play above the position of the 7th fret. I have one flush fret banjo that was defretted (long before I got it), but I ignore the markers since it had a 28" scale. I moved my bridge toward the center of the head to the same 26 5/8" scale of my usual fretted banjos. I would rather not have the markers for that reason.

Bill

fergler - Posted - 03/14/2008:  09:59:27

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Ok, I think I get it now. So it sounds like the flush fret banjo would be played like my fretted banjo, just without the raised frets, and I would be locked into a specific scale length. The fretless banjo opens more freedom to set up a scale length of your choice, and that scale to will then affect where the notes/chords will be positioned on the neck. Since I've only been playing for a little over a year, and most of my playing is chord based, am I correct in assuming fretted is the best way to go? I think it might be good to challenge myself with a fretless, but also don't want to get so frustrated as to give up.

Jennifer

Bill Rogers - Posted - 03/14/2008:  10:55:38

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Actually, you're not locked in to a scale length on a flush-fret, you just would have to learn to ignore the markers.

Bill

BrendanD - Posted - 03/15/2008:  05:14:37

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quote:

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Originally posted by brudford

Kevin Enoch has someone make them for him in Maryland and then he goes over each one.

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For what it's worth, the person who builds the Tradesmans for Kevin is a good friend (as well as a musical companion) of mine who is a superb and thoughtful craftsman and woodworker. The design of the Tradesman models is of course simpler than Kevin's custom instruments, but rest assured that their quality is in no way compromised!

Brendan

"Many thing un-understandable a chicken-hearted seems slim usually."
- from a Japanese shopping bag (printed in English)

brudford - Posted - 03/16/2008:  18:21:08

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BrendanD, Thanks for the info. I talked to Kevin the other day
and I think I'am going to order a walnut scooped neck model.
Kevin is a real nice guy and took the time to explain his Tradesman
to me.Yes they are made in Maryland, and are 100% Amercan made.
I just did not want a parts bin banjo like the Goldtones assembled
in Florida from parts made in Communist China.