Rizo - Posted - 02/29/2008:  12:12:20

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Chanterelle Student vs. Enoch Tradesman...

I already did a search and read all the old post on this matter. I know they're both excellent banjos, I know one has a tone ring, the other doesn't, I know one is more minimalist while the other is more tradtional. I really like the look and feel of the Enoch, but the Ramsey is supposed to be louder (I can't find one around to play) and is a little bit cheaper from Elderly. Both have decent resale value.

Does anyone have some sound files I could listen to? (I've been listening to Zepp's Enoch youtube.com videos but the Student is more elusive.) Maybe just offer some opinion as to one over the other since I'm pretty much deadlocked here.

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Edited by - Rizo on 02/29/2008 12:50:51

gunnar02 - Posted - 02/29/2008:  14:14:22

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I will say one thing about the Enoch, and I owned one and wish I had it back, BUT the pot is very oh how do I say toyish. It is a black painted thin laminated rim hooked to a very nice neck and hardware. The ramsey is a little more substantial. Just a thought so you aren't dissapointed. Jim at HOGEYE in Evnston Illinois has a nice looking enoch in stock if you so desire I think it has the cherry neck.

mrphysics55 - Posted - 02/29/2008:  14:43:49

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IMHO

I would not describe the Tradesman Rim as Toyish. I've owned 1 for 2 or 3 years. Perhaps Minimalist is a better term.

MrP


Do you need a Fiddle Player to Practice With 24/7? Go To http://www.fiddletunes.net

Rizo - Posted - 02/29/2008:  14:49:17

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So we have a little more substance on the side on the side of the Ramesy.

The Tradesmen I've played surprised me with their brightness (bright's not really a good thing for me) so I was wondering how bright the Student model would be too.

Of course skin heads and Nylaguts can take care of that....

gunnar02 - Posted - 02/29/2008:  14:59:32

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I'm sticking with toyish. Its like an old ss stewart rim with the metal removed. I owned one and that was my only complaint. I use the word toyish because it reminds me of the wood on my five year old's first step instruments. Let's face it Kevin didn't spend a huge amount on the rim when putting the tradesman together. Not a bad part, just nothing special. Like I said I would still like another.

Ron Ortegel - Posted - 02/29/2008:  15:06:02

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The rims on the two instruments are almost identical. Thin.

Rizo - Posted - 02/29/2008:  16:43:33

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Does anyone know if the Student and the Tradesman have the same width neck? I like a really wide one....

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/29/2008:  17:13:18

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I don't know about actual width but the Ramsey is a good playable thickness. In a choice between the two I would certainly go for the Ramsey but I like a brighter sound. The Student sounds much like the Standard or the Special - all have the same tone ring. There really isn't that big a difference between them.
Some people seem to think that a "thin" rim is some sort of problem. This is rediculous. Ramseys, Enochs, and other modern thin rim banjos are solidly built, will last at least as long as a thinner rim with metal cladding - probably longer, efinately longer than the owner would have to worry about, and have great volume and projection for old time or folk music. Yes the Ramsey is louder than the Enoch which I personally find a bit more "polite" than I can use.
Neither of the banjos you describe would be good for bluegrass, the sound of which is based on instruments that weigh more than the pick-up trucks they travel in, but I assume when asked about Ramsey vs Enoch that the poster isn't looking for the latest Chinese masterclone.

Rocket Science Banjo, Chapters 1 - 4.1 REVISED is ready now
oldwoodchuckb@yahoo.com
You can watch the videos for some Rocket Science Banjo subjects starting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdRuf4X0X7g

BConk - Posted - 02/29/2008:  19:25:07

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rizo

Does anyone know if the Student and the Tradesman have the same width neck? I like a really wide one....

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I believe the Tradesman has a 1 1/4" nut width. The nut width on my Ramsey Student is closer to 1 3/8"


http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists...4644&alid=-1

BConk - Posted - 02/29/2008:  19:26:12

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As for the rims - I wouldn't be surprised if they were both using Cooperman drum rims.


http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists...4644&alid=-1

tom clunie - Posted - 02/29/2008:  20:14:05

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I have a Ramsey Standard and a Tradesman. A lot of people say the Tradesman is quieter but I don't find that to be the case at all. One fellow who had a very fancy and expensive Enoch said that he actually prefered the tone of the Tradesman. Both rims measure 1/4" and both nuts measure 1&1/4". Right now I prefer the Enoch because of its lightness which makes it so easy to handle or curl up around and play for hours. The Ramsey has a heavier notched tension hoop with 26 hooks while the Enoch has only 18 with a much lighter grooved tension hoop. The Enoch has a very interesting neck/pot joinery that looks fragile and is all wood and lighter, but it has not budged an iota and is as firm as the day I got it. The Enoch has the lines of an 1880 Dobson and I prefer the simpler look. I would have prefered something other than Saturn on the peghead of the Ramsey but it is not that significant to me.. Ramsey is not as precise in his building of banjos whereas the Tradesman is put together perfectly. Be careful about Ramsey's fifth fret area - sometimes he does not make the neck wide enough at the fifth fret which ends up cramping the strings. Judging from photos, this seems to vary from instrument to instrument. Sound wise, the Ramsey currently has a Fiberskyn while the Tradesman has a renaissance head. You can do a lot with set-up to make either sound more like you'd like but I would guess the Tradesman's all-wood rim would be said to sound a little more plunky. When I play the Tradesman, the whole banjo vibrates and feels alive and involved in producing the sound. Overall, I just like the lightness and comfortableness of the Tradesman and how superb the neck is. The Ramsey is also a very good banjo that others would prefer first, so your dilema is a good one. Best Choice to you! TC

Rizo - Posted - 02/29/2008:  20:19:15

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quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb


Neither of the banjos you describe would be good for bluegrass, the sound of which is based on instruments that weigh more than the pick-up trucks they travel in, but I assume when asked about Ramsey vs Enoch that the poster isn't looking for the latest Chinese masterclone

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Don't worry, I haven't played bluegrass in years. I'm looking for serious plunk, so I'm thinking I'll either buy the Enoch or the Chanterelle and outfit it with either a skin head or Nylaguts.

So far the Enoch is winning for looks and vibe and the Ramsey is winning for volume and neck width. The search continues....

Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/29/2008:  23:22:10

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If you want volume and neck width (and don't mind a bit of ugly & a thick finish) consider the GoldTone Bob Carlin. It's louder than either of the others and has a really wide neck.

Bill

Rizo - Posted - 03/04/2008:  10:14:21

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Well I went for a walnut Tradesman. We'll see how it goes...

unclekurty - Posted - 03/04/2008:  11:00:02

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I picked up a Tradesman and really like it. It's light and I was looking for a banjo to hike and bike ride with. The only thing I'd change on it is the 5th string pip. It's placed behind the 5th string fret so you can't really fret the 5th string. I don't do that much fretting on the 5th anyway. In fact I never noticed this until I fretted the 5th and yikes. It probably takes too much time to shorten/cut the 5th fret to make room for the pip so it lines up with the fret.

I like the BC Goldtone too and am looking forward to checking out their fancier line of openbacks.

Tackhead - Posted - 03/04/2008:  11:10:45

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rizo

Well I went for a walnut Tradesman. We'll see how it goes...

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You'll love it. I have a walnut ET fretless that I play with a small group of friends--a guy with a booming Martin, another banjo player, and a fiddler who likes to let 'er rip. I've always been concerned that the ET doesn't project well enough to contribute to the sound mix. Not so, my wife assures me. The ET has its own very distinct voice. This is one sweet banjo. The only tweaks I've done to it are to lighten up on the strings and change out the bridge for one slightly wider and higher (11/16"). This helps playing over the neck, as the instrument isn't scooped. The slightly higher action also helps with snappy pull-offs.

~John

John Flynn
Tallahassee, FL

ELWOOD - Posted - 03/05/2008:  21:25:40

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Rizo, i am completely afan of mikes work, a cherry necked woody is a great modern traditional banjo . PLUNK .sustain neck width all suit me ! what agood time we live in when we have Ramseys and Remeros to choose. the enouch is a stranger to me but some of our friends on BHO have turned in some good MP3s. Play with friends

Bill Rogers - Posted - 03/05/2008:  23:57:05

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You didn't go wrong with the Tradesman.

Bill

bvh - Posted - 03/06/2008:  06:43:02

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I use the 1/4" rims, to build all of my banjos. I believe, that the thin rim is one of the main factors, contributing to the great sound, that these banjos produce.The difference between my banjos, and Kevin's, is that I use a Dobson Repro tonering, on my banjos, and Kevin uses no tonering. I get a different sound, than the Tradesman. His banjos are great. The Tradesman, is his lower priced line, of banjos. The B&P Blackfork Model, which I've been making, for over a year now, Is my only line, and I make about 2-3 a year. I don't advertise. I don't have a website. I work on them ,when I feel like it. I'm retired.

bvh

bvh - Posted - 03/06/2008:  06:47:56

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Post Script: I believe, that Mike Ramsey uses the 1/4" laminated rim, to make some of his banjos. Mike, also makes a great product. It's all, just personal preference.

bvh

sibyrnes - Posted - 03/06/2008:  09:05:06

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Yes, Mike Ramsey uses 1/4" rims for his Student, Standard and Special models. I may be biased, but the tradesman is a very nice, light weight banjo, but it doesn't have the volume and projection of the Ramsey models. The biggest problem with Mike Ramsey's banjos is trying to find one!

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Edited by - sibyrnes on 03/06/2008 09:07:10

BobHunter - Posted - 03/06/2008:  20:01:32

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I think you may be overlooking an excellent third choice and that is one of Wayne Sagmoen's banjos. Simple, elegant, well made.

bvh - Posted - 03/07/2008:  06:31:50

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Wayne's a good guy, to deal with. I bought my first Dobson Repro tonerings, from him. The pictures, of his banjos, that I've seen, look real nice.

bvh