pickNgrin - Posted - 10/16/2012:  04:58:24

Today is the 46th anniversary of the Stanley Brothers last full live show before Carter Stanley passed away. The afternoon set was recorded and is available here: secure.w3hosts.net/drralphstan...ree.shtml

It is a great show, and a must have for Stanley Brothers and/or traditional bluegrass fans! Carter's voice was never more smooth, and Ralph's banjo never better.

I always thought that Carter's death was caused by drinking WAY too much high test likker, but I read wikipedia and it said: "on December 1, 1966, he was dead at age 41 of what was initially thought to be cirrhosis of the liver, but which has since been clinically diagnosed in several of his chidren and grandchildren by medical experts as a genetic liver defect, aggravated by poor diet and minor alcohol consumption."

I had never heard about his liver defect. Does anybody have any more info on that?

-matt

Edited by - pickNgrin on 10/16/2012 05:02:03

banjo-joe - Posted - 10/16/2012:  05:21:36

Carter Stanley died of cirrhosis of the liver due to years of alcohol abuse.

Earls 5 - Posted - 10/16/2012:  05:26:25

In the end, everyone dies of the same cause...the heart stops beating. RIP Carter and thank you for your music.

beegee - Posted - 10/16/2012:  05:50:41

We all have ways of rationalizing those things we cannot fully accept. Whatever killed Carter really doesn't matter, especially 46 years later. He was a unique talent. My brother named his firstborn son Carter.

Mumble Peg - Posted - 10/16/2012:  06:14:13

In the 60's the local CBS station, WCBS-TV NY, had occasional folk artists on a Sunday morning show. I had seen Joan Baez long before she became famous, Pete Seeger several times, and one morning the Stanley Bros. were on. 

Have to say that it was very sad appearance, as Carter died shortly thereafter, to my best remembrance. Carter looked bad and they must have known his diagnosis at that time. There were no smiles on anyone's face during their set.

The Old Timer - Posted - 10/16/2012:  07:59:01

Many years ago I heard Dr. Ralph state that Carter inherited his liver problem and we all reacted "skeptically".

As it's been pointed out, it makes no difference now.

I never got to see the Brothers in person, although I have everything they ever recoded, including that final show.

It gives me the shivers to just imagine the Stanley Brothers appearing at the major bluegrass festivals after 1970 -- "what might have been". Alas, it was not to be.

pickNgrin - Posted - 10/16/2012:  08:40:02

Nobody including Ralph denies that the guy drank a lot (see Ralph's autobiography). But it makes sense that there might have been an underlying liver disease that was a contributing factor. It is hard to imagine how somebody with a healthy liver could drink enough to destroy their liver by age 41, and yet still be so productive. I have known some folks who drank enough to kill an elephant, but didn't have their liver give out (yet). 

A moderate to heavy drinker might typically live into their 70s or 80s, but the same person with a genetic disease might well die young. Its kind of like smoking.... I would not be surprised if a multi pack a day smoker dies of lung cancer, but I would be surprised if they die at age 41 of it. Stuff like like takes a while to develop. Some people have conditions that make them more susceptible to developing problems.

In the end it doesn't matter... he's gone and that's that. But it still makes me wonder.

-matt

Edited by - pickNgrin on 10/16/2012 08:48:13

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 10/16/2012:  08:55:34

Matt,
Great points. I have often wondered also. The age of his death and his work did not seem to fit the cause of death description.
Thanks for bringing this thread up.
Ken

Jaymz8604 - Posted - 10/16/2012:  09:48:46

Carter Stanley is one of the most important bluegrass musicians to ever live. The songs he wrote are some of the all-time greatest......Upon reading what is available, in my opinion, Carter probably had a liver problem, and drinking as hard as he did, did NOT help his liver........the whole "Together For the Last Time" is amazing. "Nobody's Business" where poor ol' Carter refers to cocaine as "crocaine"........"Somebody Loves You Darling"...."Single Girl, Married Girl"......"Carter Family Medley"......I've heard that "Roving Gambler" was recorded at an earlier date and added on to fill out the album, but it's chilling nonetheless......and of course, the touching "Take Me Home, Saviour". Carter sang the chorus' like he knew his time wasn't long.

Edited by - Jaymz8604 on 10/16/2012 09:49:48

The Old Timer - Posted - 10/16/2012:  11:34:39

On that final show, Carter's exhausted, beaten-down but fascinating voice is quite a contrast to "Big Wilbur's" frenetic efforts to keep the show "entertaining" with comedy and "Charming Betsy". Good ol' Ralph and Aunt George were just "plugging along".



The two books about Ralph have VERY sad chapters where Ralph and Shuffler recount Carter's final plunge, when he literally began to disintegrate at their mother's old homestead up on the mountain. An awfully pitiable way to go.



Gone at age 41, but look at the legacy...

BTW, supposedly Carter wrote "Hard Times" and beat Ralph in a banjo contest somewhere, playing it.   According to ancient liner notes on their Mercury LP (the boxcar cover).

Edited by - The Old Timer on 10/16/2012 11:35:53

Lenwardg - Posted - 10/16/2012:  13:00:15

Had my wife (an RN) talk to a few of the doctors she works with and they said they're first guess would be Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency.  The reason being is that this condition can normally be controlled by avoiding alcohol and maintaining a proper diet.   It is one of the two most common genetic liver conditions.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 10/16/2012:  17:13:59

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lenwardg

Had my wife (an RN) talk to a few of the doctors she works with and they said they're first guess would be Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency.  The reason being is that this condition can normally be controlled by avoiding alcohol and maintaining a proper diet.   It is one of the two most common genetic liver conditions.

---

Do you know if this was a known disease at the time of Carter's death?

Thanks,

Ken

Jaymz8604 - Posted - 10/16/2012:  17:15:04

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lenwardg

Had my wife (an RN) talk to a few of the doctors she works with and they said they're first guess would be Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency.  The reason being is that this condition can normally be controlled by avoiding alcohol and maintaining a proper diet.   It is one of the two most common genetic liver conditions.

---

That explains everything.

patrick martin - Posted - 10/16/2012:  18:43:57

Ralph Stanley's autobiography lists that he was a "tippler" and was (and I am paraphasing) drunk but not blasted (I suppose "buzzed") nearly constantly. That causes cirrhosis in some but not all...but seems likely to be a culprit.

f5loar - Posted - 10/16/2012:  22:00:05

Carter having an inherited liver problem only meant he would die sooner rather than later of alcohol poisioning.  I never saw him without a drink in his hand except when he was on stage.  He may have died at 41 but he looked more like he was 51. 

Jim Yates - Posted - 10/17/2012:  02:41:08

Here's a great old Fred Eaglesmith song:

Matteo - Posted - 10/17/2012:  04:33:33

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Old Timer

BTW, supposedly Carter wrote "Hard Times" and beat Ralph in a banjo contest somewhere, playing it.   According to ancient liner notes on their Mercury LP (the boxcar cover).

---

Wow, now that is a piece of story I had never heard!

Did Carter play banjo?!

Matt.

steve davis - Posted - 10/17/2012:  13:18:26

quote:

---

Originally posted by patrick martin

Ralph Stanley's autobiography lists that he was a "tippler" and was (and I am paraphasing) drunk but not blasted (I suppose "buzzed") nearly constantly. That causes cirrhosis in some but not all...but seems likely to be a culprit.

---

 Patrick,I can't figure out how to contact you.

Call me if you would like to talk about a bridge.

Please excuse the interruption,folks.

Thank you.

Edited by - steve davis on 10/17/2012 13:19:45

pick1936 - Posted - 10/17/2012:  15:37:06

I  have  somewhere  a  VCR  tape  showing  Ralph  visiting  the  hospital   during  the  last  min.  of  Carter's  life. He  said   aside  from  the  liver  problem  He  had  a  massive  perforated  ulcer,  and  He  was  losing  blood  faster  than  They  could  put  it  in  Him.   Later  on  it  shows  part of  the  funeral.  what  a  great  loss.

Nechville.  In  Higginsville.

Lee  Kelso

Ebanjo - Posted - 10/17/2012:  16:33:03

I heard the same story about the banjo contest.
Eric Ellis

banjoman_18 - Posted - 10/17/2012:  16:53:21

Carter was a good singer and in y mind one of the best. He may have died of too much alchohl to the liver but we want there so we want realy know. All we can do is speculate to what happend and the same foe Hank willams deathe as well

The Old Timer - Posted - 10/17/2012:  21:32:23

Yes, Carter was able to play the banjo, I've read.

I asked Bea Lilly once if he knew Carter Stanley and was very surprised by his reply -- "Carter Stanley was a GENTLEMAN". Apparently Carter was generally the life of the party, as far as other people were concerned. One of those guys everybody likes to hang with.

Pete Kuykendall told me once he sat in the front row at a Brothers show and Carter sang some mossy pitiful death number and got crying so hard during it the tears splashed off his guitar right into the front row seats! Man, I wish I'd been able to see them in person!!

dlottbanjo - Posted - 10/18/2012:  04:27:19

My father worked with the Stanley Brothers when they were in Live Oak Florida on the Suwannee River Jamboree.I"ve seen my father and Carter kill a fifth of whiskey twenty minutes before they would go on and many times you would not even known he had a drink.I have seen him sing with tears many times. Ralph was the one who inspired me to play the banjo.

aletheia - Posted - 10/18/2012:  05:22:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by f5loar

 He may have died at 41 but he looked more like he was 51. 

---

Did he ever...  Think too of Hank Williams who was only 29 when he died.   Gosh, makes you realize that these poor Southern hillbillies really did have destiny (lack-of-wealth, diet, health and education) working against them.  Considering that these are often the themes of old country and bluegrass, you realize that they really sang gospel-based music with absolute, desperate conviction.   The general disbelief that we all share (myself included) regarding Carter's youthful death only further illustrates how relatively good we've got it, and how far removed we are from the origins of the music we all love.   

The Old Timer - Posted - 10/18/2012:  18:56:32

Keith Whitley was only in his 30s.