REDDOG1K9 - Posted - 07/30/2017:  15:01:43

I'd like to build a 5 string archtop with resonator.
Can anyone reccomend a good quality, aftermarket brass tone ring?

Blackjaxe47 - Posted - 07/30/2017:  15:17:34

First Quality Music, talk to Eric Sullivan. They can supply everything you need to build your banjo with top quality components.

Dan Drabek - Posted - 07/30/2017:  15:56:32

First Quality offers a 40 hole archtop that I have heard good things about. Stewart McDonald is another. I recently purchased a Prucha brand Czech-made no-hole ring that has excellent sound. Any of these are good rings at reasonable prices. You can spend much more for certain brands. Whether they are worth the higher price is debatable. 

DD

Smelly Old Gibby - Posted - 07/30/2017:  16:39:12

Personally, I would put a vintage arch-top in.  There are some vintage archtop rings that can be had for the same (or cheaper) than a new ring.  In my opinion, they sound better.

Here is a 1954-55 Gibson 4-hole archtop that was present in the very first RB250w.  I think there are great banjo.  This ring s $300 (I have no affiliation to the seller):

ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Four-Hole...iid%253A1 

vfhamilton - Posted - 07/30/2017:  17:08:11

You can pay as much as you want to for whatever flavor of the month tone ring you want, but you can't get a better one than the Sullivan 40 hole arch top ring from First Quality Music.  I've got two of them in banjos now. I've also got one with a 1950s 4 hole Gibson arch top.  A new one from First Quality is $239.95.  

Believe me, a lot goes into building a good arch top banjo.  What tone ring you use won't make any difference if you don't use a good rim and neck.  Once you get all your parts together, it's set up, set up, set up.  Don't get that right and you ain't got much.  Arch tops are very sensitive to set up. 

Good luck with your project

revellfa - Posted - 07/30/2017:  18:39:40

I'd go for stew mac or a Recording King. To be fair, I've never played a Sullivan arch top....

Ken LeVan - Posted - 07/31/2017:  05:32:09

It seems to me that with all the vintage archtops that have been "converted" to flatheads over the years, there must be a bunch of old ones lying around.

Everything that goes around comes around, and I think archtops are coming back.

revellfa - Posted - 07/31/2017:  11:23:45

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken LeVan

 

It seems to me that with all the vintage archtops that have been "converted" to flatheads over the years, there must be a bunch of old ones lying around.

Everything that goes around comes around, and I think archtops are coming back.

---

I hope you're right Ken.   Over thirty years ago I learned on my Dad's pre war archtop and although I've searched far and wide in terms of different woods and different tone rings I must admit it is a sound that is hard to beat.  I love 40 hole archtops, I like solid archtops even more, but my favorite is the Ball Bearing archtop.  Ah, the sweet mysteries of that sound!  

I hope archtops do come back!  I like all of the above mentioned rings better than the flathead which I've never fuzzied up to.  I find archtops have more volume, power, and balance.  What more could you ask for?

Ken LeVan - Posted - 07/31/2017:  14:11:43

quote:

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Originally posted by revellfa

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken LeVan

 

It seems to me that with all the vintage archtops that have been "converted" to flatheads over the years, there must be a bunch of old ones lying around.

Everything that goes around comes around, and I think archtops are coming back.

---

I hope you're right Ken.   Over thirty years ago I learned on my Dad's pre war archtop and although I've searched far and wide in terms of different woods and different tone rings I must admit it is a sound that is hard to beat.  I love 40 hole archtops, I like solid archtops even more, but my favorite is the Ball Bearing archtop.  Ah, the sweet mysteries of that sound!  

I hope archtops do come back!  I like all of the above mentioned rings better than the flathead which I've never fuzzied up to.  I find archtops have more volume, power, and balance.  What more could you ask for?

---

I would certainly never sell my 1927 Granada, nor would I ever convert it under any circumstances.

Regarding ball bearing archtops, a kind of mentor of  mine from the old days in Brooklyn, who taught me a lot, Julian (Winnie) Winston had a ball bearing Granada, and won every banjo contest there was from Philadelphia to North Carolina in the 60s.

He wrote and played the familiar theme song from "Car Talk" (called "New York Ramble").

For your reading and listening pleasure, here are some exerpts from his blog, including sound files with the ball-bearing.

julianwinston.com/music/me_and...anjo2.php

One about his ball bearing Granada:

julianwinston.com/music/my_gra...banjo.php

Edited by - Ken LeVan on 07/31/2017 14:13:29

RioStat - Posted - 07/31/2017:  14:19:10

I've owned, and own, GoldTone, GoldStar, Iida, Alvarez, Gibson (4 hole, 40 hole, ball-bearing), Stew-Mac,(40 hole & no-hole) First Quality (Sullivan), Recording King (FlintHill?), Liberty, and a couple of "unknown origin" archtop rings (4 holes, 40 holes, no holes) over the years. About the only ones I've never had, that I can think of would be an original Gibson no-hole, Prucha, and Cox.

I believe ANY archtop ring, on a quality rim (3 ply or block), with a nice neck and resonator, and set-up properly can sound excellent.

Here's why.......I've found that all archtop rings, at least all that I've owned and handled, are sand cast and machined, no matter their origin.

My theory is this. It's easy to die-stamp or die-cast a flat ring of steel into a "flathead" tone ring, (which is just an inverted "V" with a small lip on the inner diameter), not so easy with the geometries involved with archtop rings.

I think any used, or new, archtop ring you end up buying can be made to sound good. The First Quality / Sullivan 40 hole is probably the best deal available at this time.

I have a bad habit of buying every reasonably priced, used, archtop tone ring I see for sale, but I don't have any "orphans" laying around at the moment, or I'd offer to sell one to the OP.

pickin_fool - Posted - 08/03/2017:  05:26:01

both arch top and flat top tone rings are cast..whether it be die casting or sand casting..sand casting is more for "one off" parts..the actual sand mold is destroyed in the process..die castings are different mainly due to the fact that the mold can be used repeatedly..makes no difference to the end product...both produce a part that requires machining to get it to the final specs..die stamping would never be used to make a flathead ring..die stamping is mainly for thin sheet metal parts...

but getting back to the OP's original posting..phone or email stewart-macdonald..they will be more than happy to send you a catalog..the have a pretty decent stock of tone rings..

RioStat - Posted - 08/03/2017:  08:58:34

quote:

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Originally posted by pickin_fool

 

both arch top and flat top tone rings are cast..whether it be die casting or sand casting..sand casting is more for "one off" parts..the actual sand mold is destroyed in the process..die castings are different mainly due to the fact that the mold can be used repeatedly..makes no difference to the end product...both produce a part that requires machining to get it to the final specs..die stamping would never be used to make a flathead ring..die stamping is mainly for thin sheet metal parts...

but getting back to the OP's original posting..phone or email stewart-macdonald..they will be more than happy to send you a catalog..the have a pretty decent stock of tone rings..

---

Well, yes.....you're correct about production methods. My point is that I've never seen a cheap, lightweight, steel archtop tone ring, like the cheap, steel, lightweight flathead rings that were (and I assume still are) common on many of the Kasuga, and then the Masterclone-type, import banjos.

pickin_fool - Posted - 08/03/2017:  09:52:03

i would like to try actually making an archtop tone ring..oh to have a metal cutting lathe

RioStat - Posted - 08/03/2017:  13:27:59

quote:

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Originally posted by pickin_fool

 

i would like to try actually making an archtop tone ring..oh to have a metal cutting lathe

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I'd like to try that, myself.

Check out this home-made bad-boy I sold here on the Hangout last winter. Kind of wish I'd kept it and tried it out.......

banjohangout.org/classified/63591

pickin_fool - Posted - 08/03/2017:  17:25:13

someone got a bargain at 70 bucks..lol..the chatter marks add character...

fyi..if you are turning brass in a lathe be aware that your cutting tool must have a negative rake

RioStat - Posted - 08/03/2017:  18:49:40

I didn't make that ring. It came with some parts I bought.
I ran a big LeBlond engine lathe years (and years) ago, when I apprenticed in a mold and die shop.