banjotrader - Posted - 07/04/2014:  12:24:21

In an old article from 2011 on BHO I came across a promising lead.  Here is how things unfolded.

This all started from a separate article that Beezaboy initiated/posted back in 2011 - banjohangout.org/archive/197257

- This lead article contains a picture of what looks to be a 19 fret Montana banjo with SN: 115XX (I'm 99% sure at this point that it's a 19 Fret - This because of the position of the 15th fret in relation to the heel with fret 17-19+ missing).  Wait!! The oldest known 19 fret for some time (since at least mid-2011) has been 12056 (A Montana NPU #8 in Tsumura book).  It's a classy story likely to be the "..first 23inch scale SB tenor ever - and one of the absolutely first SB examples fitted with ALL of the "new" features - Oettinger TP, soft pedal mute and Ludwig Planet tuners.." (Polle F) & 19 Frets of courses

- Luckily in a separate post it mentions the current owner of the prospect banjo

- I contacted the present owner, who is quite proud to have this significant banjo and has kindly sent photos.

- Well it's been sitting right under our noses for this long.  Here are the pictures he sent.

Based on banjohangout.org/topic/284013 this would push back the previous dating to Dec '23 / Jan '24 instead of the previous estimate of Mar '24.  And also has an Oettinger Tailpiece installed and holly rim materials.  Given previous knowledge of the Oettinger tailpiece, and let's assume this banjo was originally equipped with the Oettinger, pushing this date (19 Fret introduction that it) back any further past Dec '23 will be fruitless.  That's just an assumption though...



Good day for research!  Off 'til the next find.

Edited by - banjotrader on 07/05/2014 12:42:46

SN Oldest known 19 Fret

Lead

Confirmation

beezaboy - Posted - 07/04/2014:  12:38:12

Pretty good.

Back in the the day when we (me?) was searching for the early B&D 19 fret tenor the first that I could find was March 1925 - attached.

Also attached is Tsumura B&D #12056

Crescendo March 1925

Tsumura B&D 12056

Joel Hooks - Posted - 07/04/2014:  13:09:48

4 stringers are later than my historical banjo focus but I continue to be fascinated by this stuff.

Thanks for sharing.

Curious though... why black out the serial number on a banjo that has changed hands multiple times?  Is there some sort of identify theft chain that uses old banjo serial numbers?

Edited by - Joel Hooks on 07/04/2014 13:12:20

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 07/06/2014:  01:08:43

John & Joel,

"Nothing New Under The Sun" - I have for some years had this early 1924 SN 11566 Montana as the FOR NOW earliest known B&D 19-fret/23" scale tenor in my databases and archives.

However - in average only appr. 8% of the banjos built by Bacon are for now present in my general database - acoustudio.dk/BD_and_Bacon_database.html - hence earlier examples may pop up eventually.

Polle