Mike Moss - Posted - 01/24/2012:  07:52:57

Introduction

After posting some videos of mine, I have received some questions about how to read music notation, so I thought it might be useful if I wrote a short primer on the subject. Indeed, from what I’ve seen on the Hangout, most banjoists are either completely allergic to music, or very knowledgeable about music theory, but there aren’t many “casual” readers out there.

So let’s start out with the good news: reading banjo music written in notation can be a lot easier than you think. Don’t fret (no pun intended) if you’ve struggled with it all your life, if you just “don’t get” the dots, or if you think it requires years of hard study -- it doesn't have to.

Literally hundreds of thousands of banjoists have been reading music in the past two hundred years, and only a handful were geniuses. So, how did they do it? Well…

...editors have always had an interest in selling their product, and music is no exception; therefore, they have often strived to make music as accessible as possible to their potential customers in order to increase their target demographic. In order to sell music which could be read by people with even modest music reading skills, editors developed a system for notating banjo music which contains all the information you need at a glance.

So let's begin by debunking some stereotypes: music notation is not "poorly suited" to the banjo, nor is it ridiculously difficult to read. By the time you’re done reading this thread, you will be able to read most (well-annotated) banjo music notation with ease; this will broaden your musical horizons, and allow you to benefit from loads of music which is in the public domain, and therefore absolutely free.

Part 1: Specific symbols of banjo music notation

In order to accommodate the peculiarities of the banjo and banjo music, new symbols were devised to notate certain indications on how to play the notes on the banjo.

On the subject of stereotypes, an objection I have often heard against notation is that, "you can't tell when you have to strike the 5th string"! Well, yes you can -- banjoists a long time ago thought about it and decided that whenever the high G is played on the 5th string, it carries a small flag, like so:

 

What do the annotations tell you? Well, for starters, there's 8P -- so the fretting takes place from the 8th fret upwards. Then you've got 2, 1, and 4. This is a chord shape (we'll talk about chord shapes later) which you can simply form starting at the 8th fret. It tells us that the lowest note (on the 3rd string) is fretted with the 2nd finger (your middle finger), the note on the middle (on the 2nd string) is fretted with the 1st finger (pointer) and the note on top is fretted with the 4th finger (pinky); since your index finger is always on top, you know it goes on the 8th fret (from P. 8), and the other two fingers fall in place: the middle finger on the 3rd string, 9th fret, and the pinky on the 1st string, 10th fret.

 

Simples!

 

P. B. stands for "Position Barre" -- in other words, it's the same as P., only it's telling you to form a barre chord at the indicated fret; PB. 10 means a barre at the 10th fret, and so on. Of course, apart from the barre you might have to fret more notes; take this example:

 

 

Here you've got 5 PB, which means you're going to form a barre chord at the 5th fret with your pointer, and you've got 1, 1, 4: pointer, pointer, pinky. You know the 1's refer to the barre you're forming across the 5th fret, so you've already got the two lower notes in the chord. The 4 means that, apart from the barre, you're reaching down with your pinky to fret the 1st string (it's the 8th fret, but you can't tell because I've cut out the key signature which has 1 flat).

 

Numbers under the notes (do not confuse with the numbers which are next to the notes) come in two forms: plain numbers, and numbers surrounded by a circle.

 

A plain number (without a circle) indicates which fret a note must be played at.

 

A number with a circle indicates which string a note must be played at; this is helpful when a note is played on a string where it usually isn't played.

 

 

Here you have 16P, 2 1, 17 16, 3 4 (that's a lot of numbers!) What does this mean? It means that this is played at the 16th position, fretted with the pointer and middle finger, on the 17th and 16th frets, on the 3rd and 4th strings. In other words, you fre the 3rd string at the 17th fret, and the 4th string at the 16th fret.

 

Slides, hammer-ons and pull-offs (slurs and snaps)  are notated with lines between the notes, as so:

 

 

In this case, you can see two slides, one upwards, one downwards, on account of all three notes being fretted with the same finger, which frets the string as it slides up and downwards.

 

On the other hand, pull-offs and hammer-ons start with one finger, and finish with another; for instance, a pull-off could be made by pulling off with the pinky (4) while the next note is fretted by the index (1).

 

 

Part 2: Starting to read

 

 

Now, I've been trying to keep this as theory-free as possible, but there are some basics which are absolutely necessary -- for instance, knowing where the notes produced by the open strings lie on the staff.

 

 

(Keep in mind that this illustration depicts standard C, also known as drop C, tuning; in open G tuning, the 4th string is a D note, which is in the space just above the C in this chart).

 

I'm assuming you already know about FACE and EGBDF -- no need to go over all that here -- so here are the notes on the banjo; the three lines in the middle are your 3rd, 2nd and 1st strings; the 5th string, G, is just above, and your 4th string (C or D) is below the staff. These notes are often (but not always!) notated with a 0, meaning they are played open.

 

Here is the intro to Freckles, a solo I've recorded, which we will read through step by step:

 

 

 

So, let's see; the first note is a G, just like the G on the 5th string, as we saw in the chart; however, next to the note there is a 3, underneath there is a 12, and a 3 in a circle. As we saw earlier, this means that: with your ring finger (3), you are fretting the 3rd string (3 in circle) at the 12th fret (12) -- which, as it turns out, gives the same pitch G as the 5th string. This note is a minim (half note), so you're going to let it ring while you play the next chord.

 

After that, you play three open strings (0 0 0), which are -- (as you may see by glancing at the chart of the notes and strings) the 5th, 1st, and 2nd open strings.

 

Notice how the circled 3 has a line of dots which extends to the right -- this means that you're still using that 3rd string. The next note is the 3rd string fretted at the 11th fret, and then at the 9th fret, as you may see from the numbers underneath the next notes.

 

In the next measure, you play the 3rd string at the 7th fret, then another pinch of the open 5th, 1st and 2nd, then the 3rd string at the 4th fret, and another pinch.

 

In the next measure, you play the 3rd string fretted at the 2nd fret with the middle finger, the 2nd string open, then the 2nd string fretted at the 1st fret with the pointer finger, then the 1st string fretted at the 2nd fret with the ring finger; this 2, 1 3 is a chord shape; as I said, more on chord shapes later.

 

Then back to the open 2nd string, 3rd string 2nd fret, and finally, open 3rd and a pinch of the open 1st, 2nd and 5th.

 

That wasn't so hard, was it?

 

 

Part 3: Chord Shapes

 

 

I've already made several references to moveable chord shapes; indeed, chord shapes make reading banjo music much, much easier, and there aren't all that many chord shapes to learn. Learning these chord shapes will allow you to instantly sight-read most banjo music just by seeing the fingerings and positions, and will also really open up the fingerboard for you.

 

The best resource to learn these chord shapes is a chart produced by BHO members Ian (thereallyniceman) and Marc (trapdoor2) which really allows those numbers to come to life; these have been produced for the excellent Classic Banjo beginners' tutorial.

 

Download this and open the PDF file called "Chord Shapes for Classic Style Banjo.pdf"; however, these chord shapes do not only apply to Classic Banjo, but to any style of banjo music in Standard tuning. Here you will find all the basic chord shapes, with:

 

What they look like in music notation;

 

What they look like in tablature;

 

What they look like on the fingerboard;

 

And a photograph of the hand, fretting each one of them.

 

These chord shapes are moveable, so once you know the chord shape, you can just have a look at which position it is played at, and form it there. Take your time, look at the PDF chart, and once you've had a feel for the chord shapes, we'll try the following exercise:

 

 

These are the first few measures of another solo I've recorded, "The Syncopatin' Shuffle". With what you've learned about chord shapes, you can easily figure out how to play this challenging solo; let's take it measure by measure.

 

The 1st measure has the same chord played 4 times; it is a 311 chord at 15PB; this is the same as the 411 chord on page 5 of the chord shapes chart, but you use the 3rd finger because it's a much shorter reach from the 15th to the 17th fret! So, by forming your chord shape at the 15th fret, you get:

 

3rd and 2nd strings, fretted at the 15th fret; 1st string, fretted at the 17th fret.

 

In the next measure you have another chord -- a  231 chord at 9P; if you look at your chart on page 3, you can see how to form a 231 chord; you get the 3rd string at the 9th fret, 2nd string at the 11th fret, and 1st string at the 10th fret. The note between the chords corresponds to the open 4th -- as you may see, a low C with a 0 next to it.

 

In the next measure, you get a 411, which you form just like the 311 in the 1st measure, only at 3 PB; and, finally, in the last measure, back to the 231 at 9P.

 

Block chords are easy to read with this method; but it also applies very well to spread-out chords. Since banjo music is often chord-based, you can easily recognize where there is a chord shape, and pick the individual notes in the chord.

 

 

Conclusion: Putting it all together

 

 

With this knowledge, you can now attempt to read some easy banjo music -- or even more advanced pieces. Little by little, as you read by using these crutches, you will become more and more familiar with the notes and where they fall in on the banjo fingerboard, and you will hardly need them anymore; this is a good long-term goal.

 

Eventually, you will want to learn more about playing in different keys; learning the chords in different keys, as well as the different scales; this is all useful and necessary if you want to play more advanced music.

 

However, on the short term, it is also gratifying to be able to read music without needing to memorize the notes on the fingerboard, and, as you have seen, this is not necessarily a difficult or unpleasant task. Once you're used to this method, you'll see it's as easy to read as tablature -- and often easier, because the chords and chord shapes are more obvious on the notation than on tab.

 

If you spend but a little bit of effort learning to read notation, you will expand your musical horizons considerably, and will probably save some money as well rather than pay through the nose for tab books. Understanding music will also help you to understand other instruments, and to arrange banjo parts based upon, for instance, fiddle music or piano music.

 

I hope this brief primer has been useful to those who were struggling with musical notation or thought it was too difficult, and I hope it motivates them to learn more about this crucial aspect of a musician's education.

Edited by - Mike Moss on 01/24/2012 08:24:02

phwill - Posted - 01/24/2012:  08:24:58

Great turorial, Mike. Thanks.

Paul

banjo_novice - Posted - 01/24/2012:  08:52:45

This is just what I needed. It is a great explanation and you have made it seem very simple. Iwill read through it again as there is a lot to absorb all in one. The links to the tutorials are veru useful especially the chord shapes photographs for the classic banjo, I didn't know that they had video lessons on their website either.
thanks for all the work you have done

T-18 - Posted - 01/24/2012:  09:17:05

Thanks Mike! That was very well constructed and helpful.

shannonhearne - Posted - 01/24/2012:  10:50:42

Thanks for posting this Mike.

It is appreciated.

   - shannon

Edited by - shannonhearne on 01/24/2012 10:53:00

Corwyn - Posted - 01/24/2012:  11:12:35

Sadly, part 1 is almost completely useless.  Just because their are ways for the composer or arranger to indicate to banjo players when to hit the 5th string (for example) doesn't mean that any of them use them.  In fact, I have never seen a piece of traditional notation that used them.  additionally, if I am looking at traditional notation it is mostly *not* made specifically for banjos.  So, either we should consider the task to be reading music directly from a piece not written for banjo, or that we need to convert to a banjo friendly notation.  At which point I see no point in not just converting to tab, which contains so much more information.

The thought is appreciated though.

Mike Moss - Posted - 01/24/2012:  11:19:02

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corwyn

Sadly, part 1 is almost completely useless.  Just because their are ways for the composer or arranger to indicate to banjo players when to hit the 5th string (for example) doesn't mean that any of them use them.  In fact, I have never seen a piece of traditional notation that used them.  additionally, if I am looking at traditional notation it is mostly *not* made specifically for banjos.  So, either we should consider the task to be reading music directly from a piece not written for banjo, or that we need to convert to a banjo friendly notation.  At which point I see no point in not just converting to tab, which contains so much more information.

The thought is appreciated though.

---

Hi Corwyn,

of course, you are correct -- as I said in the title, this is meant for banjo music notation, that is, music annotated and arranged for the banjo; likewise, the guitar, violin, balalaika, &c., all have their own particular symbols which are necessary to convey the movements and positions necessary to play said instruments; for instance, if you are using violin notation for a banjo arrangement, you will logically ignore the bow-stroke symbols as the banjo is not a bowed instrument.

The good news is that, far from being useless, there is a great wealth of music published for the banjo (well over 7000, as far as I know) which largely uses these symbols, and which is very readily accessible with these indications. This is what I am referring to when I talk about banjo music notation.

As for tab containing more information than notation, I respectfully disagree; notation contains far more information than tab, which is why most good tablature also includes the notation staff above it. It is more difficult to convey note duration, especially for complex rhythms, in tab, and, of course, tab only applies to one specific way of tuning an instrument.

Well-annotated music notation contains all the information contained in tab as well as the information contained in notation which tab cannot possibly convey -- for instance, the "shape" of the music, with its melody lines, punch chords, bass lines, &c.

Edited by - Mike Moss on 01/24/2012 11:22:12

Corwyn - Posted - 01/24/2012:  11:55:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Moss

of course, you are correct -- as I said in the title, this is meant for banjo music notation, that is, music annotated and arranged for the banjo; likewise, the guitar, violin, balalaika, &c., all have their own particular symbols which are necessary to convey the movements and positions necessary to play said instruments; for instance, if you are using violin notation for a banjo arrangement, you will logically ignore the bow-stroke symbols as the banjo is not a bowed instrument.

The good news is that, far from being useless, there is a great wealth of music published for the banjo (well over 7000, as far as I know) which largely uses these symbols, and which is very readily accessible with these indications. This is what I am referring to when I talk about banjo music notation.

As for tab containing more information than notation, I respectfully disagree; notation contains far more information than tab, which is why most good tablature also includes the notation staff above it. It is more difficult to convey note duration, especially for complex rhythms, in tab, and, of course, tab only applies to one specific way of tuning an instrument.

Well-annotated music notation contains all the information contained in tab as well as the information contained in notation which tab cannot possibly convey -- for instance, the "shape" of the music, with its melody lines, punch chords, bass lines, &c.

---

So where can I find some of those 7000 songs?  I have a book of Béla Fleck songs in traditional notation and it uses none of those symbols.  Ironic considering that Béla claims to be very bad at traditional notation, and much better at tab.   But really the presence of 7000 songs in banjo notation are of little use to me if they aren't the ones I want to play.  [I also don't see the money savings you claim, as I am guessing there is little overlap between music available in banjo music notation and tab.  If one is looking for a particular tune, there is likely one paper version available, and you will pay what the owner wants]

I have a challenge for you then.  Please post a piece of music which can not be displayed in tab.  I am willing to bet I can make a more intelligible version in tab.

Since I do all of my writing of music in lilypond, if I want a tab version in a different tuning, it is a matter of seconds to make the change and print a new copy.  Or for that matter a different key, or even a different instrument.

I suspect that 'shape' of the music is just shorthand for 'I know notation so well, I can hear the music in my head by looking at it', at which point I wonder if a competent tab reader (which I am not) could do the same thing.  You could well be right about the rest, but I don't see it as pertinent.  If I want to see the whole piece with bass lines, melodies, etc. I would view that piece in traditional notation.  Tab is obviously for banjo only information.  It is easy, of course, to have lilypond include the traditional notation if I deem that useful (or even if the song is so short, I can include it on the same page).

thereallyniceman - Posted - 01/24/2012:  12:39:34

Corwyn,

I run the classic-banjo.ning website. Mike is a member over there and is an excellent classic style player. Perhaps you have been looking in the wrong places for "Banjo notated" scores. We have over 300 in our recently opened online Music Library ( and this is growing by the day). 

Most of our scores are notated in the way Mike indicates, and are free to download.. BUT you have to sign in for membership of the site to be able to view the Music Library...   don't worry it is totally free to join.

Also there are lessons, discussions, video tutorials, videos, photos etc etc.

Pop over, you may be surprised!        classic-banjo.ning.com

Ian

Mike Moss - Posted - 01/24/2012:  12:46:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corwyn

So where can I find some of those 7000 songs?  I have a book of Béla Fleck songs in traditional notation and it uses none of those symbols.  Ironic considering that Béla claims to be very bad at traditional notation, and much better at tab.   But really the presence of 7000 songs in banjo notation are of little use to me if they aren't the ones I want to play.  [I also don't see the money savings you claim, as I am guessing there is little overlap between music available in banjo music notation and tab.  If one is looking for a particular tune, there is likely one paper version available, and you will pay what the owner wants]

I have a challenge for you then.  Please post a piece of music which can not be displayed in tab.  I am willing to bet I can make a more intelligible version in tab.

Since I do all of my writing of music in lilypond, if I want a tab version in a different tuning, it is a matter of seconds to make the change and print a new copy.  Or for that matter a different key, or even a different instrument.

I suspect that 'shape' of the music is just shorthand for 'I know notation so well, I can hear the music in my head by looking at it', at which point I wonder if a competent tab reader (which I am not) could do the same thing.  You could well be right about the rest, but I don't see it as pertinent.  If I want to see the whole piece with bass lines, melodies, etc. I would view that piece in traditional notation.  Tab is obviously for banjo only information.  It is easy, of course, to have lilypond include the traditional notation if I deem that useful (or even if the song is so short, I can include it on the same page).

---

Much of this music is available online, and I have a couple thousand on my hard drive -- if you want anything, send me a private message and I'll send it to you. You are indeed correct that there is a break at one point -- around the time of the publication of Pete Seeger's book -- in which works started to be published primarily in tab rather than notation; as such, there isn't all that much overlap, apart from, of course, newly published tab versions of old songs. Charging for new tab editions is what allows modern publishers to make a profit off works which are in the public domain; they don't own the copyright on the original song, but they do own the copyright on the tab.

On your "challenge", I believe we have a misunderstanding: I do not doubt that any piece of banjo music can be displayed in tab; tab has progressed enormously and is light ages ahead of the crappy old ASCII. I am disputing your assertion that tab contains more information than notation​, as you said in your previous post. You are shifting the goalposts: you yourself state that "I am willing to bet that I can make a more intelligible version in tab": you are talking about how intelligible it is, not how much information it contains. 

I myself have read (and still read) loads of tablature, and there is no doubt that tablature is very easy to read as it allows you to play right away, but ease of reading does not information make; the same information is present in the music notation, but it also contains musical information which allows you to go beyond practical fingering information (the "intelligible") part and analyze the actual music; you can see the intervals between the notes (and therefore, the chords and why they are chords) graphically, whether the voicings are open or close; you can readily compare notes between different sheets (for instance, while making an arrangement, in an orchestral or multi-part score, &c.) of music for different instruments without having to translate from tablature to music, or from tablature to music and back to a different form of tablature (for instance, guitar tab). There are some people who will never find use for that information (and that's fine) but it's there for those who do want it.

By the way, do I detect an attempt to paint me as a notation snob in your last paragraph? Rest assured, I'm not a very good notation reader -- I just manage, though I'm learning more every day, especially as I'm slowly learning how to write arrangements; and, honestly, I still can't hear the music in my head when I read it, other than the most rudimentary melodies.

What I meant by "shape" of the music is just that -- the "shape" of the music. When you look at standard notation, and see the flowing melody lines, the harmonies (open or close), the bass lines, it gives you a good impression of what playing it will be like -- where the beat will be, which notes are part of the bass line (not always obvious on the 5-string which often uses close voicings and the bass notes are very close to the melody notes) -- and all that helps your performance. When you listen to a song, you hear all that -- you hear the bass notes, the beat, the melody -- and notation gives you a reasonable, abstract graphic representation of it which manages to convey that overall feel.

The fact that notation includes information which tab doesn't is not meant as a slur on tab. There are plenty of musical traditions throughout the world which are tab-only, from the Renaissance lute to the Guqin of China, and, there are also plenty of traditions which use neither notation nor tab and which are learnt by ear -- that's all good, and it isn't my intention to disparage one system or another; I'm just offering options.

However, I feel that we are straying from the subject of this thread; this is not a "tab vs notation debate", (all fretted instrument forums are constantly having this debate all the time, and it's tiresome) this is a thread which offers some simple pointers on how to easily read music notation published for the banjo. It says so in the title, and the content, I believe, "does what it says on the tin".

If you want to read music written for other instruments, then, yes, this thread isn't for you; you'll either have to tab it out, or read some of the excellent threads here on the Hangout on music theory. Sorry if you were expecting something else.

Jim Yates - Posted - 01/24/2012:  13:48:14

Mike,

Thanks for a well-written, useful article.

JoeDownes - Posted - 01/24/2012:  14:59:16

Thanks a lot for the information you provide.

TrevorB - Posted - 01/25/2012:  02:24:53

Mike

Many thanks for this post.  As a classical guitar player who is learning classical finger style banjo*, I find it very interesting.  Although I have read "standard" musical notation for many years, I always find I learn some new insights from articles like this.

Trevor

* Since joining this forum, I am gradually finding myself drawn to other styles of banjo as well which is a little worrying 

Mike Moss - Posted - 01/25/2012:  02:57:44

Thank you all for the kind comments!

Trevor,

learning as many styles of banjo playing as possible is a good way to develop a deep knowledge of the instrument. When I started out I didn't know whether I wanted to play Scruggs style or frailing... so I learnt both!

And remember, now that you're interested in other styles, you need more banjos -- at least one resonator banjo with a flathead tone ring and a short-scale openback with a scoop. A man can never have enough banjos, until he runs out of money... at least that's what my BAS tells me all the time 

Edited by - Mike Moss on 01/25/2012 02:59:05

bjango53 - Posted - 01/25/2012:  05:42:03

Great information and well presented Mike, thank you.

banjoy - Posted - 01/25/2012:  06:15:00

This is far too much for me to abosrb in the timeframe I have, but it is something I will bookmark and follow and process as I can.

I'm wondering if the Mods can make this a "sticky" topic? Too much thought and purpose has been put into this thread by MIke Moss for it too get lost in the boneyards of thread archives. Just an idea.

Thanks for the great thread.

TrevorB - Posted - 01/25/2012:  08:39:20

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Moss

Thank you all for the kind comments!

 

Trevor,

learning as many styles of banjo playing as possible is a good way to develop a deep knowledge of the instrument. When I started out I didn't know whether I wanted to play Scruggs style or frailing... so I learnt both!

And remember, now that you're interested in other styles, you need more banjos -- at least one resonator banjo with a flathead tone ring and a short-scale openback with a scoop. A man can never have enough banjos, until he runs out of money... at least that's what my BAS tells me all the time 

---

Mike

I used to suffer from GAS but it is rapidly being replaced by BAS!  At least there is more of an excuse for having different banjos.

Trevor

NB Is it my set-up  or do you shoot your videos in the dark?   They seen very dark when I watch them.

Edited by - TrevorB on 01/25/2012 08:42:09

Mike Moss - Posted - 01/25/2012:  09:02:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by TrevorB

Mike

I used to suffer from GAS but it is rapidly being replaced by BAS!  At least there is more of an excuse for having different banjos.

Trevor

NB Is it my set-up  or do you shoot your videos in the dark?   They seen very dark when I watch them.

---

Well, surely there are always legitimate reasons for having GAS! You may have a classical, but have you got a strat? A tele? A dreadnought? Parlour? Jumbo? Square-neck dobro? Round-neck dobro? 

Unfortunately I live in a cave and the videos do end up dark and green and sinister. I am actively looking for a solution but when I attempted to play in front of a window there was too much lighting and I looked like an apparition from the spirit realm.

--

Thank you for your comments, bjango and banjoy. I might post some further stuff on reading later on, perhaps an entire easy piece we could read through? That would be interesting.

Edited by - Mike Moss on 01/25/2012 09:12:37

Corwyn - Posted - 01/25/2012:  09:58:42

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Moss

Much of this music is available online, and I have a couple thousand on my hard drive -- if you want anything, send me a private message and I'll send it to you. You are indeed correct that there is a break at one point -- around the time of the publication of Pete Seeger's book -- in which works started to be published primarily in tab rather than notation;

I will reiterate my question: "where can I find these tunes?"  Though mostly I am interested in music before or after the period you are talking about, so it isn't that important.  Are there any unanswered tab requests on the forum that could be met from your supply of banjo annotated music notation?

On your "challenge", I believe we have a misunderstanding: I do not doubt that any piece of banjo music can be displayed in tab; tab has progressed enormously and is light ages ahead of the crappy old ASCII. I am disputing your assertion that tab contains more information than notation​, as you said in your previous post. You are shifting the goalposts: you yourself state that "I am willing to bet that I can make a more intelligible version in tab": you are talking about how intelligible it is, not how much information it contains. 

Ok. Please show me a piece of banjo music notation which contains the picking finger, a common feature of tab.

By the way, do I detect an attempt to paint me as a notation snob in your last paragraph?

No.

What I meant by "shape" of the music is just that -- the "shape" of the music. When you look at standard notation, and see the flowing melody lines, the harmonies (open or close), the bass lines, it gives you a good impression of what playing it will be like -- where the beat will be, which notes are part of the bass line (not always obvious on the 5-string which often uses close voicings and the bass notes are very close to the melody notes) -- and all that helps your performance. When you listen to a song, you hear all that -- you hear the bass notes, the beat, the melody -- and notation gives you a reasonable, abstract graphic representation of it which manages to convey that overall feel.

If you are going to maintain that that same information can not be gotten from tab, I will need proof.  Can a really competent tab reader not get the flow of the music from tab?

However, I feel that we are straying from the subject of this thread; this is not a "tab vs notation debate", (all fretted instrument forums are constantly having this debate all the time, and it's tiresome) this is a thread which offers some simple pointers on how to easily read music notation published for the banjo. It says so in the title, and the content, I believe, "does what it says on the tin".

Perhaps then the problem is my reading the title as "how to read musical notation to play the banjo" rather than "how to read musical notation which has already been annotated to ease banjo playing". 

Sure the easy way is to have someone else do the work for you.  I get that.  But really, if someone is going to all that effort, I would prefer to get tab as a result.

If you want to read music written for other instruments, then, yes, this thread isn't for you; you'll either have to tab it out, or read some of the excellent threads here on the Hangout on music theory. Sorry if you were expecting something else.

I guess I was.

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Mike Moss - Posted - 01/25/2012:  10:20:39

(Quotes are in italics)

 

I will reiterate my question: "where can I find these tunes?" 

 

Some friends of mine are working on an online library which currently hosts 300 but will soon have many more tunes; otherwise you can find some on the Library of Congress website (loc.gov/search/?q=banjo&fa...ted+music), Hamilton College's online library (elib.hamilton.edu/hc/hc-main.p...c=spe_ban) or on several webpages (here: classicbanjo.com/tutor.php and here: myweb.tiscali.co.uk/banjo29/mo...able.html for instance). There are plenty of other places on the web, you'll have to look for them.

 

Ok. Please show me a piece of banjo music notation which contains the picking finger, a common feature of tab.

 

Easy, as it's a common feature in notation as well. It's notated under the notes, with the symbols + . .. and ...

Here's a pic from my first post: 

 

+ is the thumb, . is the index and .. is the middle finger; this is a pinch with three fingers.

 

Here's a difficult passage of chromatic runs from the solo "Mazeppa":

 

 

Every bit of alternate thumb-index fingering, and almost every fret and every string is indicated.

 

​Thanks for asking, though, I forgot to explain it.

 

If you are going to maintain that that same information can not be gotten from tab, I will need proof.  Can a really competent tab reader not get the flow of the music from tab?

 

He can, but then he's mentally translating the tab (which is basically a mechanical explanation of how to obtain music) to music. When you're reading music, you're mentally translating to some form of tab -- but, as I've shown, when music is well-edited (which, unfortunately, is not often the case with music publishers nowadays), it can also include tab-like information as well as musical information.

 

Perhaps then the problem is my reading the title as "how to read musical notation to play the banjo" rather than "how to read musical notation which has already been annotated to ease banjo playing". 

 

Yes, but I do explain, in the introduction, that this is for banjo music which carries annotations.

 

Sure the easy way is to have someone else do the work for you.  I get that.  But really, if someone is going to all that effort, I would prefer to get tab as a result.

 

Well, that's your personal preference, but the fact is that there is plenty of music in this format and you can easily read it thanks to these annotations. I think they're intuitive, useful, and they allow you to get the best of both worlds -- very much like tab and notation, all in one; it allows the music readers to get the music, and the beginners to get the practical fingering information, and it's a very compact format which takes up little space. But hey, nobody's forcing you to like it or to read it. As I said, there are people who read notation, people who read tab, people who read both, and people who read neither, and they can all be great musicians.

 

Now, can we move on, please?

 

Edited by - Mike Moss on 01/25/2012 10:25:21

Corwyn - Posted - 01/25/2012:  11:10:11

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Moss

Yes, but I do explain, in the introduction, that this is for banjo music which carries annotations.

You also say: "I have received some questions about how to read music notation, so I thought it might be useful if I wrote a short primer on the subject."

It was this, I think, which threw me off.  The answer you seem to be giving for this question is to get some other music, for which the notation has already been annotated (into something like tab) for you.  The fact that 99% of all music notation doesn't fall into this category was a bit disappointing, yes.

The equivalent thing would be to say to that question about how to read notation, "Here is some other music in tab, here is how you read that."

He can, but then he's mentally translating the tab (which is basically a mechanical explanation of how to obtain music) to music.

How is that different from mentally tranlating traditional notation to music.  Neither is 'music'.

Well, that's your personal preference, but the fact is that there is plenty of music in this format and you can easily read it thanks to these annotations. I think they're intuitive, useful, and they allow you to get the best of both worlds.

Thanks for your explanation of the fingering notation.  I have to say though, that if it was 'intuitive' it wouldn't need to be explained.  Musical notation (even tab) is anything but intuitive.

I guess I prefer for the best of all worlds:

Tab and traditional snippet

Mike Moss - Posted - 01/25/2012:  11:22:58

It was this, I think, which threw me off.  The answer you seem to be giving for this question is to get some other music, for which the notation has already been annotated (into something like tab) for you.  The fact that 99% of all music notation doesn't fall into this category was a bit disappointing, yes.

Let me put it this way: 99% the repertoire that I play is often annotated like this, so it is primarily meant for those who wanted to read the stuff I play.

How is that different from mentally tranlating traditional notation to music.  Neither is 'music'.

No, but one represents music (pitch, if you will) whereas the other represents fingerings. In order to hear the flow of the music from tab, you are translating these fingerings into the pitch they produce, mentally. In notation, you graphically see the pitch going up or down; it is an abstraction, but it represents music graphically.

Thanks for your explanation of the fingering notation.  I have to say though, that if it was 'intuitive' it wouldn't need to be explained.  Musical notation (even tab) is anything but intuitive.

Perhaps I should have said relatively intuitive.

I guess I prefer for the best of all worlds:

​That's fine, but it's bulky. I read tab when I play bluegrass, I read notation when I play classic; I don't really use both in a given setting. This is because most bluegrass is in tab, and most classic is in notation, so there's no need to re-invent the wheel -- I take what's available, and both systems are perfectly viable. If I played lute, I'd read lute tab, which is a different system from modern banjo tab.

Don't get me wrong, the tab+notation system a good option, but tunes do take up twice as much real estate in this format.

​And as I said, this is not a tab vs. notation thread, nor is it a thread about the different options available to notate banjo music. Start another thread if you want to debate about this, I think I've spent enough time attending to your personal grievances from what I ultimately intended as a service to the Hangout community.

Edited by - Mike Moss on 01/25/2012 11:24:09

TrevorB - Posted - 01/25/2012:  12:01:14

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Moss

Well, surely there are always legitimate reasons for having GAS! You may have a classical, but have you got a strat? A tele? A dreadnought? Parlour? Jumbo? Square-neck dobro? Round-neck dobro? 

 

Unfortunately I live in a cave and the videos do end up dark and green and sinister. I am actively looking for a solution but when I attempted to play in front of a window there was too much lighting and I looked like an apparition from the spirit realm.

 

--

Well I have quite a few guitars (several electrics, several acoustics including a 12-string), mandolin, 2 ukes ....  but I take your point  :-)  Life is too short to stick to one instrument.

Trevor