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jimh269b - Posted - 08/09/2010: 18:25:26
theres a story behind this tune i had no ideal about it until don borchelt had told me the story,im not getting into that,but he may tell you if you want know ,you need to contact him
Edited by - Bill Rogers on 08/12/2010 09:29:04
Grey Dog - Posted - 08/09/2010: 18:34:36
hahahahhaaaa.
Nice. 
mr special - Posted - 08/09/2010: 22:41:15
this is one of my favourite tunes, i must know!
Don Borchelt - Posted - 08/10/2010: 04:54:18
g-hog wrote: "I think it's more likely the tune had to do with pelts than with anything else..."
I suspect this just goes to show that us city folks are not the only ones to enjoy a good double entendre. Folks have been using sheepskin for that, uh, purpose, since the days of the ancient Romans, and probably before that. I talked to a clawhammer player at Clifftop who said he always used sheepskin, because it was way more old-timey than latex. 
Here are the song lyrics, in case there is still any question:
I don't drink, I don't smoke
I don't mess with a greasy coat
I don't cuss, I don't chew
I don't mess with girls that do
I don't drink, I don't smoke
I don't mess with a greasy coat
I don't kiss, I don't tell
And all you sinners gonna go to hell
Some versions are "I don't wear no greasy coat."
- Don Borchelt
Edited by - Don Borchelt on 08/10/2010 06:20:21
chip arnold - Posted - 08/10/2010: 06:04:09
Hearing Don, Jimmy and Couchie do this tune together is one of my very fond memories of last week. And FWIW, Don B. played it and everything else on an aluminum (gasp) ODE with a resonator! Beautiful.
BobTheGambler - Posted - 08/10/2010: 08:22:40
I like this vid of "Greasy Coat" from Augusta Old-Time Week:
youtube.com/watch?v=bqPkBagKWVg
It seems to be one of the most viewed old time music videos on youtube, so you've all probably seen it already.
Don Borchelt - Posted - 08/10/2010: 09:25:26
g-hog wrote: "Actually, the more I think about those lyrics, the more "modern" they sound... don't they?"
Perhaps you are right, though I doubt it. I suspect the terms "drink" and "smoke" in reference to both vices is not strictly modern usage, but I could be wrong. The tune comes from Edden Hammons. If anyone has this CD, they can tell us at least whether Hammons sang any of the lyrics. If he did, I would suspect that they are "authentic," though perhaps not pre-Civil War. I have heard more modern lyrics added, which are far more "in the gutter" than the coy lyrics that are usually sung.
- Don Borchelt
Chris Berry - Posted - 08/10/2010: 21:34:51
Edden Hammons doesn't sing at all on the record.
bluemule_77 - Posted - 08/10/2010: 22:45:35
What's the earliest anyone here can recall hearing those lyrics?
I'm not sure g-hog might not be right, that this is a bit of an urban legend that these lyrics have much age on 'em. It's sort of like a few years ago when I first heard Needlecase. I was told that it was something that coal miners carried with them at all times, and should they become hopelessly trapped within the mine they'd produce their "needlecase" and the lethal dose of... something... that it contained. I haven't been able to find anything to substantiate that at all.
If the lyrics are new... well... they have taken hold and are pretty good lines, and subtle enough that they can be sung most anywhere.
If the lyrics are old... well... even better. And if the greasy coat is a condom (there, I said it), I don't think that's reason to hide the tune away from the grandkids. A tune is just bunch of notes strung together, some more pleasantly than others. There are all sorts of lyrics to Redwing that can't be sung just anywhere, but that doesn't make the tune "bad." A fair portion of adults assume a "greasy coat" is an oilskin raincoat or lanolin-rich fleece; I think that's indication enough that its title is kid-safe.
Brian
bluemule_77 - Posted - 08/11/2010: 06:21:06
I'll say again, the TUNE isn't "about" anything except itself. It's not the tune's fault that it may sometimes have bawdy lyrics applied to it.
One man's "Rocky Mountain Goat" is another's "Mud Fence." The tune isn't about mud fences or goats of the Great Divide.
Without the lyrics applied (and in this case, interpreted) there's nothing frightening about the tune... nor even its title, which you rightly point out might mean something perfectly harmless. I'm not convinced those lyrics are old, and if they are old that they are talking about condoms -- but they might be.
Assuming they are old and about condoms (and booze and tobacco), why would this make anyone believe that their "ancestors couldn't think about anything but booze and sex?" Clearly they were also thinking about soldiers, horses, goats, squirrels, various gals, sheep, items of furniture, chickens, the devil, barns, watercourses, roads, wagons...
One's own existence is proof aplenty that one's ancestors thought about sex at least sometimes. And booze? I think that as a tradition is well documented, no?
Brian
gailg64 - Posted - 08/11/2010: 07:19:36
This tune "came around" (as TJ used to say) some 15 years ago (when was the Hammons Cd issued?) The only source I know of is his, & as has been pointed out, he did not sing words to it. Not only is it not a song, it doesn't sound much like a band tune, but more like a lonesome "listening" piece.
My best guess is the words are modern, & they may have been inspired by bawdy tunes such as "Sal's Got a Meatskin." I definitely remember Jim Collier & Joe Newberry singing the "I don't drink & I don't smoke.." lines to it 12-15 years ago at a dance in Black Mt. where I was filling in for Margaret Martin on guitar with the Tarheel Hotshots.
G
quote:
Originally posted by bluemule_77
I'll say again, the TUNE isn't "about" anything except itself. It's not the tune's fault that it may sometimes have bawdy lyrics applied to it.
One man's "Rocky Mountain Goat" is another's "Mud Fence." The tune isn't about mud fences or goats of the Great Divide.
Without the lyrics applied (and in this case, interpreted) there's nothing frightening about the tune... nor even its title, which you rightly point out might mean something perfectly harmless. I'm not convinced those lyrics are old, and if they are old that they are talking about condoms -- but they might be.
Assuming they are old and about condoms (and booze and tobacco), why would this make anyone believe that their "ancestors couldn't think about anything but booze and sex?" Clearly they were also thinking about soldiers, horses, goats, squirrels, various gals, sheep, items of furniture, chickens, the devil, barns, watercourses, roads, wagons...
One's own existence is proof aplenty that one's ancestors thought about sex at least sometimes. And booze? I think that as a tradition is well documented, no?
Brian
Tessellater - Posted - 08/11/2010: 08:31:19
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
I'm in agreement... the tunes are the tunes. People can put whatever words they want to any of 'em, but you can change the music, the meaning, the history behind them if you mess with them enough.
I think it's difficult for most people these days to see outside of what they have been sold... I took this grad class in philosophy one time (since I worked in a university got free tuition and sometimes took classes just for fun)... the prof started out the class by asking who is brainwashed... everybody said they weren't... no, no not them... way too may smarts for that! But by the end of the class, 100% of the class agreed they'd all been brainwashed and weren't thinking independently. Now, there's a lot that could be discussed about this, for sure, and I won't put everybody here to sleep with all of that or get into some argument about it, but it might be relevant to consider in this situation... is all I'm saying.
Also: I think the booze and sex thing seems disrespectful to our ancestors to me. Yes, there was and always has been drinking, etc., but generally, most of them worked very, very hard, sacrificed and suffered a lot, valued their families, and sex was something that was only a small part of all the other intricacies with lifelong commitments; valued their children, taught them respect and values so they would grow up and take care of things, etc. The moonshine brought money to a lot of people that had no other way of surviving... just as both moonshine and growing pot do in some places in KY right now. That's sort of a tragedy, though, isn't it?
What, so some people are brainwashed about the meaning of greasy coat?
Do you really think a line about old time condoms would harm your grandchild in a meaningful way?
Tessellater - Posted - 08/11/2010: 08:54:11
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
LOL... my ol' buddy Tessellator!
Yes, people have misconstrued this tune... the music and any related meanings.
Yes, people are brainwashed when they are so submersed into big corporate culture they can't think outside of it.
Yes, I think teaching my little grandson that kind of disrespect about the meaning of relationships, responsibility, and even how to think of his own body could cause him to feel that misbehaving might just be walking in the steps of the others before him, when, in reality, the others had a much different attitude.
Well, im glad we have someone who knows everything on the forum to set us all straight!
And if you think hiding sex education from your grandson is a good idea, it isn't. It will just lead to unauthorized experimentation.
I resent you attempting to desexualize our forefathers.
Sex isn't dirty... unless.... nevermind.
Edited by - Tessellater on 08/11/2010 08:56:20
maryzcox - Posted - 08/11/2010: 09:19:34
Hello--just for fun--here's the tune on a 5 string cello banjo. 
youtube.com/watch?v=4gsA_AvnX94
A more traditional instrumental version (banjo/fiddle duet) is on my "Walkin' That Banjo Home" CD.
maryzcox.com
Best wishes,
Mary Z. Cox
Tessellater - Posted - 08/11/2010: 09:27:20
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
Not trying to hide sex education, but give him correct information about his body, his relationships, his responsibilities, and how his great, and great-great grandparents did things. I would like for him to get the chance to grow up understanding, respecting his own body, that of females, and how to be a man, not a wild, disrespectful partying maniac who learned to live life from what he was being sold by the entertainment, et al industries. I.e., his ancestery... to learn his ancestry and how he fits into the world... however he chooses to live will be left up to him... but I hope he learns something different than what we have a lot of.
Im not sure that a possible old time reference to a condom is misinformation.
Tessellater - Posted - 08/11/2010: 09:34:45
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
... but are you sure what is?
You can't "out-deep" me, g-hog. Don't even try.
Healthy and responsible is also a corporate brand. You're ruining your grandchild with your socially induced psychosis.
Tessellater - Posted - 08/11/2010: 09:42:43
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
You raise yours according to your way, and we'll raise ours our way. I'll love him no matter what, but I feel it's our responsibility (his parents and grandparents too) to give him the benefit of whatever wisdom we've managed to accumulate by our own life experiences.
I've seen men who were raised to take on the responsibilites of men... and I've seen the effects of men who were raised with disregard for everything and everybody... I'll try my best to help steer him on the best path... but, as I said, maybe it's spittin' against the wind... I'll love him no matter what, but I can't avoid what feels like my moral obligation to generations that follow me.
If this tune fits into his heritage, I would like for him to really understand the essence of that tune, born out of hardship in the mountians, not partying, trying to avoid unwanted pregnancies, and dealing with hangovers.
So he shouldn't avoid unwanted preganancies? what?
I believe the mythic mountain people had sex, and maybe wouldn't mind avoiding a pregnancy or two.
Im not sure whitewashing history to make it into some kind of idealized past is helpful either.
Tessellater - Posted - 08/11/2010: 10:00:33
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
Please don't twist up my meanings like that... it reminds me of what's being done with the music.
Once again... I need a break from this board.
Aww, poor g-hog. See ya later.
Edited by - Tessellater on 08/11/2010 10:01:08
Paul Roberts - Posted - 08/11/2010: 10:57:57
To me, Greasy Coat doesn't at all sound like a banjo/fiddle tune from Southern Appalachian repertoire. It sounds like an African American blues guitar song.
The fiddle/banjo/vocal versions sound to me like they've been directly transposed from the African American blues guitar tradition.
Don coined the term, "double entendre," which means double meaning, innuendo, a play on words. Double entendres (particularly sexual) are ubiquitous in African American lyrics.
But sexual references in general were by no means limited to African Americans, i.e., "Girls on the Cripple Creek 'bout half grown
Jump on a boy like a dog on a bone..."
In Folk Songs of North America, Alan Lomax writes,
"... many of these rowdy and joyous songs were created in settlements far out on the frontier, beyond the reach of the preacher and his board of joy-killing deacons. They were kept alive by the reckless crew who roistered and drank, even though they were dancing beyond the pale of respectability... American dancing rhymes were cryptic and allusive, relying on wild, zany images to convey hidden erotic meaning."
PauL
banjocrazy.com/ Gold Tone instruments, and artist profiles and interviews
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 08/11/2010: 11:59:59
This song was unfamiliar to me, so I just went and listened to a whole whack of versions on YouTube. In light of what I've seen, I think Paul's theory of the song's African American origin is interesting and plausible. I agree, it sounds bluesy in character. I'm not so convinced of the double-entendre character of the lyrics though. They sound to me to be talking about exactly what they say they are: a greasy coat. the singer seems to be extolling his or her own virtues of abstinence, cleanliness, and lack of stinkyness...saying he or she would keep away from indulgent, dirty stinkers.
Edited by - Marc Nerenberg on 08/11/2010 12:01:09
Tessellater - Posted - 08/11/2010: 13:26:47
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg
This song was unfamiliar to me, so I just went and listened to a whole whack of versions on YouTube. In light of what I've seen, I think Paul's theory of the song's African American origin is interesting and plausible. I agree, it sounds bluesy in character. I'm not so convinced of the double-entendre character of the lyrics though. They sound to me to be talking about exactly what they say they are: a greasy coat. the singer seems to be extolling his or her own virtues of abstinence, cleanliness, and lack of stinkyness...saying he or she would keep away from indulgent, dirty stinkers.
I'd say stating an aversion to sinful condoms is in line with that theme.
What is the virtue of staying away from an actual coat with grease on it?
Mark Johnson - Posted - 08/11/2010: 13:46:34
Among my most prized possessions are copies of two books by Vance Randolph: Roll Me in Your Arms Vol. 1, and Blow the Candle Out: Unprintable Ozark Folksongs and Folklore (which is really volume II of the collection). Both are GIANT tomes filled to the brim with "unpublishable" folk songs, rhymes and stories Randolph collected throughout the southeast and Ozarks in the first half of the 20th Century.
Now, let me be clear: this stuff is FILTHY. There are lyrics contained in this collection that would put any modern hip-hopper to shame with the filthy talk. Forget double-entendre and sneaky language, here are songs that come right out and say things that are frank and nasty. This is made all the more fascinating when you consider the source of these tunes... these are our grandparents and great-grandparents! In many cases, the cited sources are women. When I try to picture my relatives in the hills of Missouri 80 years ago, I don't picture such talk, but there it is, documented in these books!
I'm trying to resist having a point here, I mostly wanted to share the existence of these great books. But, I'll allow myself some waxing... It's entirely possible that Greasy Coat is about early prophylactics. I haven't seen proof that it is, and am not sure what proof would look like, but I see no reason to cringe away from the suggestion that old-timers could sing about such a thing. Bawdy tunes, MUCH bawdier than this suggested reading of Greasy Coat, abound.
I do agree to an extent with g-hog that there is a tendency towards amplifying the "rough and rowdy ways" tunes from the old-time repertoire, and that doing so paints the old timers in a light that isn't accurate. But I don't think that really bears on the interpretation of a particular tune, here Greasy Coat. There are tunes about sex, gambling, moonshine, violence of every sort and so on. There are also songs about love, patriotism, farming, food, and even nonsense (some of my favorites!). Both exist.
So I guess my bottom line is Who knows what Greasy Coat is about, but I see no reason why it couldn't be about something dirty. Our grandmas sang all kinds of filthy tunes!
Gadaya - Posted - 08/11/2010: 14:50:51
Since some talked about the Bluesy character of "Greasy Coat", you may want to check my version, played with a slide on a fretless banjo (and with some fiddle too...)
youtube.com/watch?v=HHRLPuKD3bA
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 08/11/2010: 14:51:47
quote:
Originally posted by Tessellater
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg
This song was unfamiliar to me, so I just went and listened to a whole whack of versions on YouTube. In light of what I've seen, I think Paul's theory of the song's African American origin is interesting and plausible. I agree, it sounds bluesy in character. I'm not so convinced of the double-entendre character of the lyrics though. They sound to me to be talking about exactly what they say they are: a greasy coat. the singer seems to be extolling his or her own virtues of abstinence, cleanliness, and lack of stinkyness...saying he or she would keep away from indulgent, dirty stinkers.
I'd say stating an aversion to sinful condoms is in line with that theme.
What is the virtue of staying away from an actual coat with grease on it?
A greasy coat is dirty. The virtue is cleanliness. The same as the verse about not going out with boys who stink.
I'm not saying it
isn't about condoms. I'm just saying I'm not convinced that it is. I don't really care either way. But the versions I saw sung on YouTube didn't
seem to be about condoms to me...they seemed to be saying "Look how virtuous I am...I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't wear dirty clothes...and I'm keeping away from stinky people who do!"
Edited by - Marc Nerenberg on 08/11/2010 14:55:10
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 08/11/2010: 15:00:12
quote:
Originally posted by Gadaya
Since some talked about the Bluesy character of "Greasy Coat", you may want to check my version, played with a slide on a fretless banjo (and with some fiddle too...)
youtube.com/watch?v=HHRLPuKD3bA
Man, I liked that! Have you any opinion on the the origins and meaning of the song? Did you do any research on it?
coreyowen - Posted - 08/11/2010: 15:01:32
To add to Mark's reply, who was Clarence Ashley singing "My Sweet Farm Girl" for? Now that's a naughty song, though I have no idea how old it is. The war generations seemed to have had a remarkable propensity towards bawdiness, though they seemed to be quite good at hiding it in polite company. The consequences of social ostracism were much greater then, I suspect...
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/11/2010: 15:06:51
Shall I sing a few choruses of "Bang Bang Lulu"?
Mark Johnson - Posted - 08/11/2010: 15:10:03
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
My grandmas, great-grannies and great-great grannies didn't.
You're absolutely sure they didn't? I mean, I know dirty jokes, and thanks largely to the aforementioned books, I know some dirty lyrics to folk tunes. That doesn't require that I go around telling them to people, singing them, sharing them with children. I know dirty jokes in my brain that I may never tell anyone, ever. But, it seems possible that if a joke collector came to my door asking if I had such a joke to add to his field collection, I might stoop to share one.
That's all my statement really involved... there were "old timey" people who knew dirty ditties. I don't see any reason that that fact should be shameful to them or to their ancestors.
Anyway, to get back to the topic at hand, I really feel like Marc N's reading and explanation has a lot of sense behind it. Sort of an Occam's Razor thing here, no reason to stretch for dirty metaphors when plain literal words make fine sense.
Tessellater - Posted - 08/11/2010: 15:11:30
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg
quote:
Originally posted by Tessellater
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg
This song was unfamiliar to me, so I just went and listened to a whole whack of versions on YouTube. In light of what I've seen, I think Paul's theory of the song's African American origin is interesting and plausible. I agree, it sounds bluesy in character. I'm not so convinced of the double-entendre character of the lyrics though. They sound to me to be talking about exactly what they say they are: a greasy coat. the singer seems to be extolling his or her own virtues of abstinence, cleanliness, and lack of stinkyness...saying he or she would keep away from indulgent, dirty stinkers.
I'd say stating an aversion to sinful condoms is in line with that theme.
What is the virtue of staying away from an actual coat with grease on it?
A greasy coat is dirty. The virtue is cleanliness. The same as the verse about not going out with boys who stink.
I'm not saying it isn't about condoms. I'm just saying I'm not convinced that it is. I don't really care either way. But the versions I saw sung on YouTube didn't seem to be about condoms to me...they seemed to be saying "Look how virtuous I am...I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't wear dirty clothes...and I'm keeping away from stinky people who do!"
"The "cleanliness" is more moral than literal, making it seem to me that the literal dirtiness of a coat is probably not the correct interpretation. I don't really care either, I just think it would be MORE consistent with the other lines to be talking about actual morality and not physical cleanliness.
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 08/11/2010: 15:23:15
quote:
Originally posted by Tessellater
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg
quote:
Originally posted by Tessellater
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg
This song was unfamiliar to me, so I just went and listened to a whole whack of versions on YouTube. In light of what I've seen, I think Paul's theory of the song's African American origin is interesting and plausible. I agree, it sounds bluesy in character. I'm not so convinced of the double-entendre character of the lyrics though. They sound to me to be talking about exactly what they say they are: a greasy coat. the singer seems to be extolling his or her own virtues of abstinence, cleanliness, and lack of stinkyness...saying he or she would keep away from indulgent, dirty stinkers.
I'd say stating an aversion to sinful condoms is in line with that theme.
What is the virtue of staying away from an actual coat with grease on it?
A greasy coat is dirty. The virtue is cleanliness. The same as the verse about not going out with boys who stink.
I'm not saying it isn't about condoms. I'm just saying I'm not convinced that it is. I don't really care either way. But the versions I saw sung on YouTube didn't seem to be about condoms to me...they seemed to be saying "Look how virtuous I am...I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't wear dirty clothes...and I'm keeping away from stinky people who do!"
"The "cleanliness" is more moral than literal, making it seem to me that the literal dirtiness of a coat is probably not the correct interpretation. I don't really care either, I just think it would be MORE consistent with the other lines to be talking about actual morality and not physical cleanliness.
I don't see it as about morality, but about slovenliness. But you and I are looking at the same thing and seeing it differently. I don't think either of us is more persuasively correct than the other.
(But Mark Johnson's reference to Occam's Razor is right in line with my thinking, not only on this, but most of the time. For those who may not know what that is, it stands for the premise that the simplest and most direct solution is most likely to be the correct solution.)
coreyowen - Posted - 08/11/2010: 16:31:36
The question of authorial intention is a difficult one, since lyrics must have gained new nranges of meanings as they were passed down through different cultural vocabularies. If "greasy coat" was a known euphemism for a condom, then those who understood the euphemism, even if they didn't mention it in polite company, would surely have made at least some association with condom when they heard the phrase. Surely many people were not aware of the euphemism, even if it was a common one, so they would not have associated it with condoms, and would have thought of general uncleanliness. All part of the wonderful ambiguity of language that makes poetry possible.
Having said that, I completely sympathise with g-hog's overall point (as I think I understand it), that the contemporary tendency to sexualise everything is, well, rather tiresome.
bagunhe - Posted - 08/11/2010: 17:06:37
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
... and are we already forgetting that it seems the original tune had no words, no singing????
Alan Jabbour reported that Maggie Hammons (b.1899) told him a jingle connected with this title "I don't care nor I don't weep, Nor I don't care fro the greasy coat"
Also, Lee Hammons (b.1883 or 1886) knew this "I don't drink and I don't smoke, And I don't fool with the greasy coat"
Bosco
EggerRidgeBoy - Posted - 08/11/2010: 17:40:32
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
My.... great-great grannies didn't.
Just from a strictly factual viewpoint, how do you know that?
You had eight great-great-grandmothers, all of whom likely died before you were born. Or at least died when you were very young. Of my 16 great-great-grandparents, the one who came closest to being alive when I was born (in 1963) died in the early 1940s. The sixteen of them were born between, roughly, 1835 and 1865. Even as someone who has had a stong interest in family history ever since I was a child, and who has spent countless hours interviewing older relatives and researching their lives, I would never think to claim I knew exactly what my great-great-grandparents were saying, singing, or thinking in, say, 1885.
I can say with a good deal of certainty that neither of my grandmothers sang "all kinds of filthy tunes", but that is because I knew them very well. I have heard a lot about my four great-grandmothers from those who knew them, and I doubt they sang bawdy songs and so forth, but then again, those types of stories often don't get passed along to later generations. But I can't really make any such claims about people who lived over a hundred years ago.
Edited by - EggerRidgeBoy on 08/11/2010 18:02:13
Kitt - Posted - 08/11/2010: 18:21:18
quote:
My grandmas, great-grannies and great-great grannies didn't.
Right. And as any parent knows,
their teenage sons and daughters don't fool around. As absurd as that belief is, those parents at least have the opportunity to look their teenage kids in the eye while being bald-faced lied to. In your case, I don't know how you could possibly make such a statement of certainty about grannies that you never met much less spoke with.
Kitt - Posted - 08/11/2010: 18:23:40
quote:
[Dwigth Diller]warns against misinterpreting it by playing it as a dance tune...
You know what? I don't care about what Dwight Diller "warns against".
Kitt - Posted - 08/11/2010: 18:28:25
quote:
I grew up with them... great-great, great, and regular ol' grandparents
You're around a hundred and fifty years old?
Kitt - Posted - 08/11/2010: 18:30:57
I know who Dwight Diller is. I imagine that most here do.
EggerRidgeBoy - Posted - 08/11/2010: 18:37:38
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
I knew mine... they stayed home and worked hard on the farm.
First of all: Really? You knew - personally - all eight of your great-great-grandmothers? That would make one unique family. Perhaps the only such one in our country's history.
Second of all: Staying home and working hard on the farm says nothing about what kind of songs they sang, what kind of jokes they told, what kind of everyday language they used, and so on.
I don't understand the need to mythologize earlier generations in such a way. One can be disgusted by our society's relentless sexualization of almost every aspect of our culture, and still recognize that our ancestors might just possibly have occasionally thought, sang, or joked about - gasp - sex. Especially since humans have been doing just that since the beginning of recorded history (and earlier). There were pornographic papyri in ancient Egypt, rude graffiti in Pompeii, bawdy drinking songs in Elizabethan England...and dirty jokes in early 20th Century Appalachia.
Edited by - EggerRidgeBoy on 08/11/2010 18:47:50
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 08/11/2010: 18:37:40
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
Why would i be that old? What are you talking about? I knew and was raised up around my sets of grandparents... you weren't????? I helped mine work on the farm... that's how i got my first musical instrument, guitar... my favorite great aunt gave me a cow of my own so I could sell her calves and have some money. I'll never forget that she did that for me...
To have grown up with your great-great grandparents, as you claim you did, you would have to be more than a hundred years old. Those are your grandparents' grandparents. Did you really know them?
EggerRidgeBoy - Posted - 08/11/2010: 18:40:32
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
Why would i be that old? What are you talking about? I knew and was raised up around my sets of grandparents... you weren't????? I helped mine work on the farm... that's how i got my first musical instrument, guitar... my favorite great aunt gave me a cow of my own so I could sell her calves and have some money. I'll never forget that she did that for me...
You have said twice that you knew your grandmothers, great-grandmothers, and great-great-grandmothers.
Even if every woman in your family tree had a child at 15, the first would still be 60 when her great-great-grandaughter (you) was born. That would be just young enough for you to have known her when you were an adult.
For that to happen in one genealogical line, would be very unusual. For it to happen in eight lines would be, well, extremely unusual, to the point of impossibility.
So perhaps you can see what we are talking about, and why we doubt that you actually knew all of your great-great-grandmothers. And by extension, why we don't understand how you can claim to know what they did or didn't sing or talk about.
Edited by - EggerRidgeBoy on 08/11/2010 18:49:46
Kitt - Posted - 08/11/2010: 18:40:33
quote:
Why would i be that old? What are you talking about? I knew and was raised up around my sets of grandparents... you weren't?????
This is "what I'm talking about":
quote:
I grew up with them... great-great, great, and regular ol' grandparents
No, I wasn't raised up around my "great-great and great" grandparents. That's what I'm "talking about".
coreyowen - Posted - 08/11/2010: 18:41:44
g-hog wrote: "by the way, while we were there I was involved in an oral history project funded by a KY Humanities Council Grant about how children were raised in Whitley County in the old times (we interviewed several very old ladies and a few men about what was done-- one lady mentioned specifically that if there would have been birth control, "I would've stole me some") there were no condoms... if there were condoms being used for wild living, why wouldn't they also have been used to make life easier for families."
This is a very interesting point and a strong argument against interpreting "greasy coat" as "condom," at least among the folks who transmitted the tune. I don't know anything about this, and it is slightly tangential, but might there have been cultural taboos against trying to use birth control? Perhaps it was associated too closely with loose living?
EggerRidgeBoy - Posted - 08/11/2010: 18:51:57
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
I'm not saying in anyway that people didn't tell dirty jokes or sew wild oats or anything... I'm saying, yes, I knew most of my grandparents... this is the first I've heard that people don't? Why would that make me 150 years old???? I don't get it
As all of our responses have clearly stated, we are not talking about your grandparents - we are talking about your claim to have known your great-grandparents and great-great-grandparents. Have you somehow forgotten that you wrote that?
You have gone from writing that you "knew your great-great-grandmothers" to saying you "knew most of your grandparents". Those are two very different statements, yet you insist on acting as if we were responding to the latter, which of course we obviously were not (since you hadn't actually, you know, made it yet).
And I'm not sure where your "this is the first I've heard that people don't [know their grandparents]" statement comes from. As you must be aware, nobody here has said that - we have said we didn't know our great-great-grandparents.
At any rate, you don't seem to want to get that point. So I'll stop making it.
Back to the tune, for what it is worth, I'm mostly of the mind that "greasy coat" refers just to an old, dirty coat. At least that is what I think of when I sing it. But then again, I hardly ever sing the lyrics, I just play the tune. I first learned Dwight Diller's arrangement, which I like it a lot. However, I do also take the view that if I want to play it as a dance tune I will.
Edited by - EggerRidgeBoy on 08/11/2010 19:13:00
Paul Roberts - Posted - 08/11/2010: 19:21:03
Okay, so what I'm getting out of this discussion is you don't have to wear a condom if you get dragged down into the gutter, but you might want to wear a raincoat.
EggerRidgeBoy - Posted - 08/11/2010: 19:26:33
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
Why is all of this so weird.... am I missing something here? Are we miscommunicating????
I'd agree that it is a weird discussion - as to why, I think only you can answer that.
If you throw a "willfully" in front of the "miscommunicating", I'd say you are half right.
Edited by - EggerRidgeBoy on 08/11/2010 19:33:05
EggerRidgeBoy - Posted - 08/11/2010: 19:26:57
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Roberts
Okay, so what I'm getting out of this discussion is you don't have to wear a condom if you get dragged down into the gutter, but you might want to wear a raincoat.
Sounds like a good lesson to me.
Having learned that, perhaps I'll now actually go play the tune a bit. And try to come up with a slightly different take on it that I usually play.
Speaking of different takes on "Greasy Coat", here's a little change of pace:
youtube.com/watch?v=D5V4mtZ-0qg
Edited by - EggerRidgeBoy on 08/11/2010 19:28:15
Paul Roberts - Posted - 08/11/2010: 19:59:09
Hey, let's all get together and go over to Sound-off where Don Borchelt has posted a great recording of this tune! It's been a great discussion and I don't think anyone has made any real enemies. If anything, it's inspired me to try to play this groovy tune.
If there's anything further to resolve, I suggest we leave it up to our great great-grandparents. I'm sure, from their vantage point, they'll know how to handle it best.
PauL
banjocrazy.com/ Gold Tone instruments, and artist profiles and interviews
Edited by - Paul Roberts on 08/11/2010 20:00:59
WildJimbo - Posted - 08/11/2010: 21:27:07
So... Whenever I hear phrases like "greasy coat" I have to go looking for references to the phrase. I've found earlier references, but this one was interesting, it's from 1891:
query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-...4609ED7CF
It would appear, at least in this article (and in a couple of other articles from around the same time period) that it's an article of clothing.
You can also poke around here for other references: google.com/search?q=%22greasy+...HMQyQEoCA
-=Jim
Edited by - WildJimbo on 08/11/2010 21:29:12
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 08/12/2010: 00:54:02
Thank you, Jim. Very interesting. It would appear that Occam's razor is a sharp as ever.
Tessellater - Posted - 08/12/2010: 04:27:23
quote:
Originally posted by g-hog
Paul... thanks for steering this outta control ship... we got way off course! You're a good person!
Oh, Unlike the bad people who dare question you.
We got it!
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