stewart217 - Posted - 01/19/2010:  08:55:39

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I've heard nothing but good things about nylgut strings for clawhammer players such as myself. I found 2 different sets on Elderly: the "classical" set and the "minstrel" set. In their descriptions G tuning is recommended for the classical set and D or E tuning for the minstrel set.

I play in both of these tunings. Therefore, was wondering if I would have the flexibility to tune the classical strings up to D tuning without any of them snapping. I've never used any type of string other than steel for banjo so I'm not sure if the nylgut material could withstand increased tension.

weetmans - Posted - 01/19/2010:  09:08:27

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I've tuned Nylgut "classical" up to D without anything snapping, but the banjo I use them on is a very slightly shorter scale than normal. I have, however, taken the 5th string up to higher than A, so it should be safe. If you're not sure, try C tuning capo'd up 2 frets and just retune the 5th string. That way, if anything gives, you're only out one string, and you can always put an old classical guitar first string (or a piece of fishing line) on until the time comes to change the whole set. The thing to remember with Nylguts is that they don't like sharp surfaces. They seem to be fine with increased tension, as long as every surface they are passing over is smooth

stewart217 - Posted - 01/19/2010:  09:11:14

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Awesome. I didn't even think about Capoing from C to D. I'll be sure to check the surfaces on the bridge and nut to make sure nothing is rough. Thanks for the post. It was very helpful.

trapdoor2 - Posted - 01/19/2010:  09:11:21

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In the minstrel string set's case, the "D" tuning they're referring to is dGDF#A (a full five steps lower than std gCGBD). The "E" tuning is eAEG#B.

For clawhammer on a standard banjo, use the "classical" set. I have no trouble tuning it to std (gDGBD/gCGCD or a full step up (A or double D). Be careful with them, any little nick or sharp spot (like a sharp fret end or tuning post or tailpiece) will cause them to break.

raybob - Posted - 01/19/2010:  09:12:48

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I think what is meant by "D or E tunings" being recommended for the minstrel set that they are talking about tuning the whole instrument down to D or E. This would mean tuning the banjo down a 3rd or a 4th and keeping the same relationships between the strings. IOW, they're assuming that you're starting in Open G (not double D or some such) and that you'll tune all the strings down the same distance until you get to D or E, which would be a 3rd or a 4th. Some folks really like the way the banjo sounds this way, but you may have problems playing tunes you've already learned in double D in your 'new' D tuning because all the intervals between the strings will be different and you may have to re-learn some tunes. Actually it's only a problem if you play with others that have learned that particular tune in the traditional key, then someone will have to make an adjustment.

Check out RD Lunceford's recordings he's made with his Bowlin banjo. Fine examples of what the banjo can sound like when tuned this way. Have fun!

fretlessinfortwayne - Posted - 01/19/2010:  09:52:26

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The only thing I would add to the well-informed advice above is that nylgut strings may take several days to stretch out to the desired tuning. But they will settle down. Best of luck.

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Edited by - fretlessinfortwayne on 01/19/2010 09:53:58

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 01/19/2010:  10:35:10

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I use Chris Sands Classical Banjo Strings. They don't stretch as much, they don't break as much, and the wound strings stay would for a reasonable amount of time. They cost about the same at Elderly. If you have a SAGA No-Knot don't attempt to use the slot it will cut Nylguts every time -and some other nylon strings occasionally. For safety, tie a square knot in the end of the string and do a single hitch over the post. The square knot catches in the hitch and keeps all hunkey dokey without getting involved in the sharp slot.

majikgator - Posted - 01/19/2010:  23:10:57

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yes Raybob has that right it's tuning DOWN to D from G and is a relationship to a standard open G tuning, not an open D or Double D tuning.

dkmarshall - Posted - 01/20/2010:  08:08:05

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Try Savarez Yellowcard Ultra High Tension guitar strings - available as singles. Nylgut's just don't have that "growl" imho.

stewart217 - Posted - 01/20/2010:  08:13:08

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Thanks to all. I misunderstood the context of "D" and "E" tuning. Thanks for clearing that up. I'll be sure to shop around a little more and check out those other strings that were suggested.

Bigbike4 - Posted - 01/20/2010:  22:01:25

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You know, I have never had a single nylgut break. And I do have some sharp edges on some items of my old Stewart. I also use a repro no knot tailpiece and again have had not problems. It is true that the 'guts do take a little longer to stretch out, then traditional metal strings, but hey, better the nylguts on the Stewart than a broken Stewart!

Feo - Posted - 01/21/2010:  06:46:20

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I had a Nylgut string snap on me last night ... but it was my fault ... I experiment too much ...

Nylgut doesn't seem able to take the same amount of stress as my fishing line strings...

But, Nylgut sounds better IMHO

JedMarum - Posted - 01/22/2010:  06:27:07

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I tune my nylgut strings to G no prob. They do take some time stretching in. The gut strings want to be tuned way low, down to E or F - they will not take the higher tunings. I don;t think either of these strings want to be retuned much. They both need time to stretch in to pitch.

rjanecek - Posted - 01/22/2010:  07:47:46

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I have a set on my Fielding and produces a very nice tone. Nice and plunky! and no sock required :-)

dhergert - Posted - 01/22/2010:  09:07:01

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Yea, fishing line seems to last forever. Mine are going on three years old now and still play and sound great, and they get played a lot.

Haven't tried Nulgut so can't comment on tone comparison. Fishing line sounds as good or better than conventional nylon strings at least to my ear.

quote:

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Originally posted by Feo
...
Nylgut doesn't seem able to take the same amount of stress as my fishing line strings...

But, Nylgut sounds better IMHO

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Edited by - dhergert on 01/22/2010 09:32:27

supah_g - Posted - 01/22/2010:  18:24:49

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quote:

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Originally posted by fretlessinfortwayne

The only thing I would add to the well-informed advice above is that nylgut strings may take several days to stretch out to the desired tuning. But they will settle down. Best of luck.

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Oh yeah, they seem to take both time and several increments of removing accumulation of excess length from the tuning posts. Too many winds leads to more instability IMHO. And you will build up MANY winds as they settle in! In fact, I was so sure that the strings were slipping vs, stretching during a recent install, that I made marks with permanent marker. But it was apparently, No slipping. Unbelievable stretching!

You might also need to open up slots in bridge, nut, & tailpiece to accommodate the larger diameters. Having no proper tool to widen the slots in my repro No-knot tailpiece, and fearing that attempts at prying the slots apart further might lead to breakage, I just crimped the crap out of the 4th string with pliars, so that it would fit in that slot. I'm sure I lose points for form on that one, but it has held up so far.

I'm still not sure if'n I like them or not. They are a pain to install. I found, that they make an undesirable "squeak" - especially the 5th string in the "new" condition. For what appears to be a very smooth surface, it squeaks when I rub my thumb against it, and not in a pleasant way. I'm hoping this goes away. Nevertheless, the squeaky-ness is perceptible, and annoying in normal playing. That said
, the set in question is only 3 days mounted. I'm prepared to give some more time, before I say unfavourable things.

Cheers,
g.

Kitt - Posted - 01/22/2010:  18:43:44

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Supah G...and others:

If you haven't seen and read this on going thread at the link that I'm posting you might want to do so. It covers much of what you all are discussing here, and then some. Supah G: along with the discussion on strings, you will surely be interested in the bridge they've discussed, which is especially suited for nylgut or nylon strings -- both for sound quality and for the size of the strings.

Side-note about stretching: you all probably already do this, but I just yank on them, run my hand the length of the fretboard, and stretch them on purpose for the first few times of use rather than let them stretch wholly on their own. I use steel strings but I imagine that the same idea would apply to nylon.

banjohangout.org/topic/167169

Feo - Posted - 01/23/2010:  17:54:46

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quote:

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Originally posted by dhergert

Yea, fishing line seems to last forever. Mine are going on three years old now and still play and sound great, and they get played a lot.

Haven't tried Nulgut so can't comment on tone comparison. Fishing line sounds as good or better than conventional nylon strings at least to my ear.

quote:

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Originally posted by Feo
...
Nylgut doesn't seem able to take the same amount of stress as my fishing line strings...

But, Nylgut sounds better IMHO

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I just had another nylgut string snap on me tonight , this time while playing .... they are definetely not as durable as fishing line ..... the nylgut doesn't stand up to high tension ... nylgut sounds great though , I guess you just have to find a perfect fit for the note you want and keep the tension down a bit ... I put my fishing line back on tonight .....

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 01/23/2010:  20:51:25

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As I said before - try a set of Chris Sands Sands Classical Banjo Strings - Elderly has them. I use Heavies on a banjo I tune a minor third low (E). The Mediums were right for concert pitch

weetmans - Posted - 01/25/2010:  23:51:46

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Anybody ever thought of using Nylgut strings for fishing?

Loo P. - Posted - 01/26/2010:  04:17:36

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Wouldn't it be too much work to reel 'em in with the ratio on most tuners...?

weetmans - Posted - 01/26/2010:  06:33:12

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and with all that stretch, the fish wouldn't know they were hooked until two days later....

veijo - Posted - 02/10/2010:  10:07:00

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I'm very happy with my Nylgut strings.
I had a set of Nylgut strings on my desk for several months. Now I have them on a combination banjo and you can hear the recordings I made just yesterday:

banjohangout.org/myhangout/vid...0&id=4088
banjohangout.org/myhangout/vid...0&id=4083

The banjo consist of a Dan Pennington cocobolo rim, a Bill Rickard Dobson tone ring, an Asian neck, renaissance head and a Moon bridge.
Seppo Sillanpää

japus - Posted - 02/11/2010:  20:16:15

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I have 20# 40# and 80# fishing line, all clear and good quality, would they be suitable to try on my old time wonder? if so can I use 1 size for all strings?

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/11/2010:  21:55:55

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I prefer Chris Sands Classical Banjo Strings to Nylgut - less stretch, less breakage, and the Sands 4th string has not unwound.

gailg64 - Posted - 04/16/2010:  14:40:03

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Would the 5th make it up to A?

quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

I prefer Chris Sands Classical Banjo Strings to Nylgut - less stretch, less breakage, and the Sands 4th string has not unwound.

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rustman - Posted - 04/16/2010:  16:31:33

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Hello!
Does anyone have an idea where to get nylgut or Chris Sands Sands Classical Banjo Strings in Europe? I've got a mountain banjo on the works and I need some sort of strings for it.

cbcarlisle - Posted - 04/17/2010:  08:29:03

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You're much closer than we are, rustman. They are made in Italia.
aquilacorde.com/

rustman - Posted - 04/17/2010:  09:31:29

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All right. Thanks!
Next I need to find out which set would suit to a fretless mountain banjo. Would it be the Minstrel set?

Alan Hill - Posted - 04/17/2010:  16:24:45

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Well I took Mr Woodchucks advice and got the chris sands strings put on my new banjo and could not be more happy thanks for your recomendation Mr Woodchuck

tomberghan - Posted - 04/18/2010:  10:08:42

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You might find this post of interest:

banjohangout.org/topic/176291

HolyGrass - Posted - 04/18/2010:  11:45:37

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I just got a fretless gourd banjo with Aquila NylGuts, the classical set. I love the warm tone and the smooth response; plus the "clicks" sound really, really nice with these.

I also have Aquila on my little ukulele banjo. Great strings!

japus - Posted - 04/18/2010:  17:34:19

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While I am considering trying nylgut or aquila strings on my old time wonder I am a little hesitant on doing so.. Am I able to use the same hardware (tail piece, bridge, nut ) without any change so if I decide to go back to steel strings I will only be out the cost of the strings ?
I do believe, however the nylon strings is the sound I have been seeking for many years on a banjo...and if they work I'll just get rid of my steel strings

I am thinking I may need to make string slots wider on the bridge and nut..

MarkRB - Posted - 04/19/2010:  17:44:02

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I put Nylgut strings on my Goodtime banjo, and I like them. I did though have to tie loops on the end to use with the tail piece, tricky at first but they have held up for some time. I would recomend them, but I still use metal strings on my other Goodtime and my Bob Carlton. Get a variety of sounds that way.

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 04/19/2010:  20:06:29

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quote:

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Originally posted by japus

While I am considering trying nylgut or aquila strings on my old time wonder I am a little hesitant on doing so.. Am I able to use the same hardware (tail piece, bridge, nut ) without any change so if I decide to go back to steel strings I will only be out the cost of the strings ?
I do believe, however the nylon strings is the sound I have been seeking for many years on a banjo...and if they work I'll just get rid of my steel strings

I am thinking I may need to make string slots wider on the bridge and nut..

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How does one know if the bridge and nut slots are wide enough? I have a 1909 banjo, so the nut slots probably should be wide enough...but it might be a replacement nut, since the banjo was restored in the 1970s before I bought it. It there some easy way to tell before ordering strings and finding modifications to the banjo are necessary?

japus - Posted - 04/19/2010:  20:17:49

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since my Vega is only 1 yr old I am going to contact Deering, they will be able to tell me what I need to know