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chip arnold - Posted - 11/16/2009: 17:00:21
Being a member in good standing of the "PC crowd", I thought I'd just chime in here.
First off, society is no worse now (no better either) than it was at any time in the past. Narrow things down to american society? We once had a system wherein human trafficking was not only legal and acceptable, but the so called "gentry" engaged in it as did some of our founding fathers. Whipping children in front of parents, selling moms and dads away from their kids, forcing females into sex, lynching and far more were standard fare. The rightful owners of this land we call America didn't exactly invite us over so they could present their birthright to us as a gift either. Then there was that bit of trouble up around Salem, Mass. And so on. People are depraved. People have always been depraved. Your and my "good old days" were hell on earth for somebody, somewhere.
I have no idea what sort of a life mom had. But I do know that treating your (or anyone elses) child that way is totally contrary to nature. And I know that to behave in a way that is that far outside the bounds of what our own hearts tell us is right takes a twisted mind. A severely twisted, deranged mind. And such a one should be locked away where she can't ever do such a thing again. But I'm not at all convinced that "punishment" is what she needs. And I'm sure that punishing her won't do the rest of us any good. Neither will punishing her act as a deterrant since this is an act of depravity and depraved people don't consider consequences.
So if I was king, I'd have her locked up but in a facility where there was a possibility of helping her to see things as they are and to get her life under control. But then, if I was king, I'd have rehabilitation (and the protection of society) as the primary goals of incarceration in every case. Punishment wouldn't be very high on my list because punishment has proven to be almost totally ineffective.
As for whose "fault" it is, I don't know and neither does anyone else. It's nice to put her in a tidy little pigeon hole and assume we know all about her but we don't know about her at all.
Fire away ;-)
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken
Chip Arnold
KE - Posted - 11/16/2009: 17:04:11
I'm standing with behind Chip.
chip arnold - Posted - 11/16/2009: 17:09:09
Pssst! I'm over here behind this tree ;-)
**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken
Chip Arnold
eagleisland - Posted - 11/16/2009: 17:19:44
Sorry, but I'm in a different forest than the tree you're behind.
I concur that "Mom" must have had serious issues, but we have safety nets in this country. It takes true depravity to take out a knife and saw through them like this gal apparently did. Bad enough with anyone's kid. When it's your own? I'll never understand that.
eagleisland
"I was halfway to Old Kentucky when the drugs began to kick in." - Hunter S. Monroe
Studebaker Hawk - Posted - 11/16/2009: 17:25:04
Give me a gun and I will shoot her dead. No trial by her peers. No touchy-feely sessions to discern the root cause why she did this. I will shoot her dead and I will sleep well afterward.
I have as much regard for 'people' like this as I do flies on a dung heap.
--Dean
chip arnold - Posted - 11/16/2009: 17:35:54
Ummm, Kill because you've decided on your own that it's the right thing to do. And your victim deserves it. Where have I heard of this happening recently? Oh yeah. some folks up in Fayetteville NC. But nah, you probably wouldn't really do it.
**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken
Chip Arnold
mandolin123 - Posted - 11/16/2009: 17:36:15
My tv is on the fritz and I don't get the paper, so you guys are the news. It sounds sick to me. Folks now days don't seem to have any raising. Much less any "good preachin" to.
Hey Chip, How big's that tree?
Well, hmmm, if that don't crank your truck.
fivebranch - Posted - 11/16/2009: 17:36:37
Part of me agrees with you Dean and part with Chip. So I'll let others above my "PAY GRADE" make the call.
(B&JO)
"Don"t Let Today Become The Regret Of Tomorrow"
KE - Posted - 11/16/2009: 17:37:29
And this is one of the reasons we have a constitution and govern by laws.
backtothefuture - Posted - 11/16/2009: 17:42:18
quote:
Originally posted by Studebaker Hawk
Give me a gun and I will shoot her dead. No trial by her peers. No touchy-feely sessions to discern the root cause why she did this. I will shoot her dead and I will sleep well afterward.
I have as much regard for 'people' like this as I do flies on a dung heap.
--Dean
I might be stoopit, but isn't this against the law? . Dennis  
Studebaker Hawk - Posted - 11/16/2009: 18:06:36
quote:
Originally posted by KE
And this is one of the reasons we have a constitution and govern by laws.
Too bad neither were strong enough to protect this child. And I stand FIRMLY by my first post.
KE - Posted - 11/16/2009: 18:29:05
It is indeed too bad. But are you willing to throw them (constitution and laws) out because of this, because that is what you are advocating.
A lot of things failed to lead to an event like this. This is why we look to root causes. They might give us a chance to find what went wrong and how better to protect children in the future. Unless you already know who to shoot in advance.
But you know what, you're not going to shoot anybody, so why bother debating the point? C ya
Edited by - KE on 11/16/2009 18:50:51
BConk - Posted - 11/16/2009: 19:04:29
$10 says he's already got a gun. If he stands FIRMLY behind his post I guess we'll be reading about him in the news soon enough. 
"Defender of the Sacred Cod"
Capio pisces, ergo sum
mogultx - Posted - 11/16/2009: 19:19:31
I can see how upset Studebaker is - and how rational the rest of you are trying to be. That lady ain't no lady. It has been done before. It will be done again. I, for one, am thanful that it elicits such a profound response from so many people. THAT says something... IMO.
Monty
noli illegitimi carborundum (stolen from DAT)
rollinalong - Posted - 11/16/2009: 19:54:07
This is as bad or worse. The human animal is incomprehensable to me at times.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/.../detail.html
Bill
The best you can do is the best you can do, and you can do anything if you want to bad enough." - Barry Abernathy, Mountain Heart
a Flathead
an Archtop
and an Open back
chip arnold - Posted - 11/16/2009: 20:33:43
"This is the way of peace:
Overcome evil with good,
and falsehood with truth,
and hatred with love."
....Peace Pilgrim
http://www.peacepilgrim.org/
**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken
Chip Arnold
Peter O - Posted - 11/16/2009: 20:43:08
Dean , If you miss, I'll Get her !. Pete.
steve davis - Posted - 11/16/2009: 21:05:59
It's awful hard to admit how easily humans kill each other.
Our species has been this way since they drew their first breath.
There have been great books written to help us see how wrong this is,
yet nothing has changed.
chip arnold - Posted - 11/16/2009: 21:12:56
It's true that the world hasn't changed but countless individuals have :-) And will.
**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken
Chip Arnold
MYLO - Posted - 11/16/2009: 21:22:52
People can get very bad.. I was a bit wild in my youth and young adult life. I thought I had a good view on the rougher element. Playing in a rock band every weekend and working at a local foundry, I met and saw many kinds of folks. I got involved in church again, got a job in law enforcement and saw right then that I knew nothing about the rougher and crude element. For the last 7 years I have seen some of the worse things that one could imagine here in the rural county and small town I work in. Meth, stealing, abuse, ( domestic and child) murder, suicide. Just to name a few. It probably is worse than you think in your town. I know it certainly is in mine.
" I want it to sound,,,, like a DANG BANJER!!"
Ronnie - Posted - 11/16/2009: 21:34:10
Mylo, my late mother in law was a DHS case worker in your county. She told me a lot of horror stories. Obviously she didn't mention any names.
www.bobbythompsonbanjo.com
Edited by - Ronnie on 11/16/2009 22:31:46
brokenstrings - Posted - 11/16/2009: 21:44:02
I have to agree with Chip, certainly with the historical observations, but also perhaps with the treatment of the mother. Reason: abused children spawn more abused children, and it must be stopped somewhere. That said, I can sympathize with S. Hawk's point of view too. I remember getting so outraged reading about some children who set a horse's tail on fire that I would like to have gone after them with a machete. (Somebody's saner suggestion: force those kids to do fly-swatting duty for the horse, who survived but who cannot now swat flies away.)
Truth is we may be intellectually evolved but emotionally we're primitive.
Jessy
Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!
jfrebel - Posted - 11/16/2009: 21:48:12
I always laugh at the "good ol' days" stuff.
I recall the episode of frasier where martin is saying that in his days single mothers would be sent away to have their babies. "Then when she came back, they'd raise the baby as a little sister. Not like today - we had morals and values back then!" LOL!
the 50's just hid stuff better and they didn't have news like we do today.
with all the lynchings and stuff, and kids dying daily from polio and such I bet the news would have looked pretty bad if CNN existed back then.
ah the 50's with shows like I love lucy (where the wife got spankings but they slept in two beds because sex is evil but wife beatings is rated G. LOL!
jfrebel - Posted - 11/16/2009: 22:29:01
quote:
Originally posted by brokenstrings
I have to agree with Chip, certainly with the historical observations, but also perhaps with the treatment of the mother. Reason: abused children spawn more abused children, and it must be stopped somewhere. That said, I can sympathize with S. Hawk's point of view too. I remember getting so outraged reading about some children who set a horse's tail on fire that I would like to have gone after them with a machete. (Somebody's saner suggestion: force those kids to do fly-swatting duty for the horse, who survived but who cannot now swat flies away.)
Truth is we may be intellectually evolved but emotionally we're primitive.
Jessy
Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!
I was the victim of child abuse. I would never put a kid through what I went though. I don't see how anybody can do that to another human being especially if you know what it feels like. so I don't have any sympathy for her being abused as a kid. I'm thinking this mother has no morals, no conscience, and belongs in jail. (assuming she's found guilty) I'm just glad we're not in the "good ol' days" when this stuff was ignored and happened behind closed doors.
Louisiana Rose - Posted - 11/17/2009: 03:51:30
quote:
Originally posted by chip arnold
Being a member in good standing of the "PC crowd", I thought I'd just chime in here.
First off, society is no worse now (no better either) than it was at any time in the past. Narrow things down to american society? We once had a system wherein human trafficking was not only legal and acceptable, but the so called "gentry" engaged in it as did some of our founding fathers. Whipping children in front of parents, selling moms and dads away from their kids, forcing females into sex, lynching and far more were standard fare. The rightful owners of this land we call America didn't exactly invite us over so they could present their birthright to us as a gift either. Then there was that bit of trouble up around Salem, Mass. And so on. People are depraved. People have always been depraved. Your and my "good old days" were hell on earth for somebody, somewhere.
I have no idea what sort of a life mom had. But I do know that treating your (or anyone elses) child that way is totally contrary to nature. And I know that to behave in a way that is that far outside the bounds of what our own hearts tell us is right takes a twisted mind. A severely twisted, deranged mind. And such a one should be locked away where she can't ever do such a thing again. But I'm not at all convinced that "punishment" is what she needs. And I'm sure that punishing her won't do the rest of us any good. Neither will punishing her act as a deterrant since this is an act of depravity and depraved people don't consider consequences.
So if I was king, I'd have her locked up but in a facility where there was a possibility of helping her to see things as they are and to get her life under control. But then, if I was king, I'd have rehabilitation (and the protection of society) as the primary goals of incarceration in every case. Punishment wouldn't be very high on my list because punishment has proven to be almost totally ineffective.
As for whose "fault" it is, I don't know and neither does anyone else. It's nice to put her in a tidy little pigeon hole and assume we know all about her but we don't know about her at all.
Fire away ;-)
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken
Chip Arnold
Well said, God will be her ultimate judge in any case If you are gonna be out of date, do it right
Louisiana Rose - Posted - 11/17/2009: 03:57:32
quote:
Originally posted by jfrebel
quote:
Originally posted by brokenstrings
I have to agree with Chip, certainly with the historical observations, but also perhaps with the treatment of the mother. Reason: abused children spawn more abused children, and it must be stopped somewhere. That said, I can sympathize with S. Hawk's point of view too. I remember getting so outraged reading about some children who set a horse's tail on fire that I would like to have gone after them with a machete. (Somebody's saner suggestion: force those kids to do fly-swatting duty for the horse, who survived but who cannot now swat flies away.)
Truth is we may be intellectually evolved but emotionally we're primitive.
Jessy
Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!
I was the victim of child abuse. I would never put a kid through what I went though. I don't see how anybody can do that to another human being especially if you know what it feels like. so I don't have any sympathy for her being abused as a kid.
I'm thinking this mother has no morals, no conscience, and belongs in jail. (assuming she's found guilty)
I'm just glad we're not in the "good ol' days" when this stuff was ignored and happened behind closed doors.
I understand your feelings in that case, but it is a well known fact that victims often repeat the pattern, your children are just lucky that you broke the mould If you are gonna be out of date, do it right
Sultans of Claw - Posted - 11/17/2009: 04:13:29
quote:
Originally posted by brokenstrings
Truth is we may be intellectually evolved . . .
Uh oh. Lee Callicutt
vfhamilton - Posted - 11/17/2009: 04:56:46
I agree with Chip that punishment isn't usually very effective. Therefore, I would give her the opportunity to treat the child better in the next life.......as soon as possible.
Vince Hamilton
Fletcher, NC
http://www.hamiltonbanjo.com
madkelt2004 - Posted - 11/17/2009: 05:19:47
quote:
Originally posted by Studebaker Hawk
quote:
Originally posted by KE
And this is one of the reasons we have a constitution and govern by laws.
Too bad neither were strong enough to protect this child.
And I stand FIRMLY by my first post.
What Constitution? Is any of it left? I thought the politicians and lawyers have done a pretty good job of disposing of it!
Sultans of Claw - Posted - 11/17/2009: 06:01:29
Uh, oh. Uh, oh . . . . . !
Lee Callicutt
Studebaker Hawk - Posted - 11/17/2009: 06:14:17
quote:
Originally posted by KE
It is indeed too bad. But are you willing to throw them (constitution and laws) out because of this, because that is what you are advocating.
A lot of things failed to lead to an event like this. This is why we look to root causes. They might give us a chance to find what went wrong and how better to protect children in the future. Unless you already know who to shoot in advance.
But you know what, you're not going to shoot anybody, so why bother debating the point? C ya
Maybe. At least temporarily because neither seem to be working too well these days. I mean, even Abraham Lincoln took it upon himself to suspend habeas corpus during the Civil War because it was expedient for him to do so.Uh, yeah. Well, you let me know how that's coming along for you, okay, Skippy? As for me, I really don't see that particular tack having any counter effect on the evil that's so prevalent these days.Do any of us REALLY know what we're capable of when the situation presents itself? --Dean
Texasbanjo - Posted - 11/17/2009: 07:21:39
Watch it folks, let's stay on topic, let's not let politics into this discussion.
Let's Pick!
Texas Banjo
xplainer - Posted - 11/17/2009: 07:25:54
How can one look a our society today and say it is not more violent than ever before?
Simple example: When I was in high school (79-81), it was the standard for student to park their trucks on school grounds, with their rifles in the gun racks. Yes, there were fist fights, but never did anyone resort to their weapons. Now, at the same school, obviously no weapons, assigned Deputy, metal detectors, CCTV, etc. We are more violent!
Early video games featured "pong", Pac-Man, Frogger and Defender. Now, the shootem up games are the norm, with the more blood and guts, the better. Look at the Hollywood garbage being produced and packaged as "entertainment".
You can pull selective atrocities from the past and make it "seem" that we have always been depraved. (and to some level - yes). But todays world is a violent, wicked place to live.
Just last Sunday in the town where I work, 10 were shot and 1 is dead. : http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/l...0233924.html
Please.
-Jimmy
dingo - Posted - 11/17/2009: 07:33:07
I am sure that the biggest news in MO, is all over the Nation. Two men in their 70, and their sons, all arrested for all kinds of stuff with children, been going on for more yrs then anyone can figure, they have been abusing neighboorhood child as a family group. If the fathers learned this from there father, that means this family has been doing this crime form the 1800, they are doing all kinds of investigations on the family homestead, digging on the land and through the house.
Jill
What Happens in the Corn Field, Stays in the Corn Field.
BConk - Posted - 11/17/2009: 08:21:07
quote:
Originally posted by xplainer
How can one look a our society today and say it is not more violent than ever before?
-Jimmy
Easily - one can actually look! US crime rates per 100,000 inhabitants 1980 Murder 10.2 Rape 36.8 Robbery 251.1 Aggravated Assault 298.5 Burglary 1,684.1 Larceny - Theft 3,167.0 Vehicle Theft 502.2 2008 Murder 5.4 ( rate decline of 4.8 murders per 100K people since 1980) Rape 29.3 ( rate decline of 7.5 rapes per 100K people since 1980) Robbery 145.3 ( rate decline of 105.8 robberies per 100K people since 1980) Aggravated Assault 274.6 ( rate decline of 23.9 Assaults per 100K people since 1980) Burglary 730.8 ( rate decline of 953.3 burglaries per 100K people since 1980) Larceny -Theft 2,167.0 ( rate decline of 1000 larcenies per 100K people since 1980) Vehicle Theft 314.7 ( rate decline of 187.5 vehicle thefts per 100K people since 1980) source http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htmDespite year by year variations - I think it's pretty clear that the overall trend for the past few decades has been that crime rates are decreasing. Less violent crime in a society means a less violent society - at least in my opinion. I think what's at play is not an increase in crime rates, it's an increase in the amount of time the 24 hour media cycle devotes to reporting the crime. I think that creates an overall impression that we are becoming a more violent society when the evidence doesn't support that. ...at least not the evidence I've seen "Defender of the Sacred Cod" Capio pisces, ergo sum
chip arnold - Posted - 11/17/2009: 08:34:53
Quote: "How can one look a our society today and say it is not more violent than ever before?"
It's true that one town, school, neighborhood or nation may be much more violent today than it was at some past time. But the world and it's history are bigger than that. For instance, comparing '79 - '81 in one town to an entire nation today misses a much bigger picture. Holding up selective times of peace is the same as holding up selective atrocities isn't it? So sure, there are places that are worse today than yesterday and there are also places that are better. Six million Jews and a couple million Cambodians would probably have taken their chances in Southside Chicago if they'd been given a choice.
But on the other hand, it doesn't matter if people were more or less disposed to violence in the past. What matters is now and I think Jimmy is right to point out the institutionalized violence we live with in today's America. And today's world. What really does matter about the past is the lessons it teaches. Our solutions have not worked. We've missed the true causes of our troubles and so we have missed the solutions.
**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken
Chip Arnold
backtothefuture - Posted - 11/17/2009: 08:42:28
quote:
Originally posted by BConk
......Despite year by year variations - I think it's pretty clear that the overall trend for the past few decades has been that crime rates are decreasing....
Thanks for posting this. Whew! It IS a bit of a relief seeing these numbers. Maybe there IS hope for us yet!!!! Why does it seem to us that everyday, we hear of some horrible crime? Perhaps (and this is nothing new)......we are just HEARING of these crimes quicker and more often than people did years ago. With the advent of internet and all the news programs on tv....perhaps the news just gets to us faster, and has more ways to reach us now. . Dennis
Louisiana Rose - Posted - 11/17/2009: 08:45:02
If you actually read your social and economic history you would find that sort of thing has been going on for ever, you only have to look at Victorian England to know how badly children were treated before the childrens' act was created to protect them, we jsut hear of it more now because of the media
If you are gonna be out of date, do it right
darryl k. - Posted - 11/17/2009: 10:13:09
Chip...you're amazing. Am heading over to check out that peace website now.
darryl
The road less travelled....5 strings, a stick, a hoop, and a piece of hyde.
J.D. Miner Trio www.jdminer.com
xplainer - Posted - 11/17/2009: 10:37:16
BConk, why do you have to ruin everything by introducing verifiable statistics to this thread??
Ok, let me backoff my previous post and put it this way:
It seems (to me) that in my neck of the woods, things are worse.
As Chip pointed out, comparing mine local conditions to that of the rest of the country isn't very logical. I just got carried away with my local observations.
And I guess the "instant news media thing" colors the picture a little diffent too.
Seems like their job is to bring us bad news....as it happens.
-Jimmy
Edited by - xplainer on 11/17/2009 10:41:35
BConk - Posted - 11/17/2009: 10:39:06
quote:
Originally posted by chip arnoldWhat matters is now and I think Jimmy is right to point out the institutionalized violence we live with in today's America. And today's world. What really does matter about the past is the lessons it teaches. Our solutions have not worked. We've missed the true causes of our troubles and so we have missed the solutions.
Chip Arnold
But if violent crime is the ultimate manifestation of the level of violence in our society then it appears - since it is on the decline, that our solutions ARE working. Another thing - though nobody can claim direct causality either way, perhaps some of the truly "institutionalized" forms of violence in our society, such as video games and movies, are actually not causing more violence but providing an outlet for violent tendencies and thereby helping to lower the crime rates. Clearly something is working to lower the crime rate. So - anecdotally - back when Pong and Pac Man were the rage - the rage in our streets seems to have resulted in far more crime than there is in the streets today. Therefore if you try to claim causality - looking at the trends I think it might be more accurate to say peaceful video games cause violent behavior in real life "Defender of the Sacred Cod" Capio pisces, ergo sum
Edited by - BConk on 11/17/2009 10:47:50
Jaminbanjo - Posted - 11/17/2009: 10:48:06
You're right, Glenn. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior.
Austin
FisherPicker - Posted - 11/17/2009: 11:00:30
Hmm, I probably should not touch this with a 10 ft pole, .......but.........
I think people are quite capable of being evil....to the nth degree, history and present times teach us this...there seem to be those of us who are capable of learning what is and is not acceptable by our respective societies and live witrhin those guidelines , however there are those who are incapable of learning, whom do not fit within the societal norms, .......the 38cent solution...bang....no more problem, but who am i to decide who lives or dies...In the natural world there are those who are ostrosized(spelling?) (kicked out) of their societies....I have witnessed it even with dolphins, one is found unacceptable, or runts left to die...........nature is cruel and we are but a part of it...perhaps ...........but if we expect people to be like water we are never disappointed:
They will take the path of least resistance and puddle enmass at the lowest point.
I have a higher view of people as a whole , however to ask how evil we can be is ......well seemingly, we can be the most evil of all things.
Self control and responsibility are the tools we need to elevate ourselves above
the puddle at the bottom of the hill.
Now you'll all think I'm stunted , nuts and will ignore all of my future posts!!!
Just kidding...I think.
Blue Skies, Tight Lines, Good Tunes...
Studebaker Hawk - Posted - 11/17/2009: 11:22:02
Am I getting this right? So now we're saying here is that crime is lower these days than it was in the past?
Question: Who here feels their city is safer now, in 2009, than it was, say, in the 1950s or early-1960s? (Okay, you’re going to have to be past a certain age to answer this truthfully.)
Almost to a man (and woman), everyone I talk to these days is afraid to let their children roam their neighborhoods unfettered, let alone allow them to venture past their neighborhood and onto the city sidewalks. Where I grew up in the 1960s, in Orange County, Southern California, crime, child predation, etc., wasn't much of a factor in our lives. It really WAS a lot safer years ago. During the summer break from school, my buddies and I would leave the house the house at 8:00 am and return home at 6:00 pm for dinner. And our mother’s didn’t worry too much about us, either because everybody looked out for everybody else.
Today, as I look at the same neighborhoods where I grew up decades ago, I’d be wary to hazard a walk to the mailbox let alone allow a child to play unsupervised. Also, my old high school, my safe, straight-laced, America-and-apple-pie high school, is now equipped with metal detectors at all the entrances. Metal detectors… IN A SCHOOL!
I guess what I'm trying to say is, screw the idiotic statistics. OPEN YOUR FREAKIN’ EYES, people! Things are a hellava lot worse today than they were in years past. Just who are you trying to kid?!
--Dean
chip arnold - Posted - 11/17/2009: 11:45:59
I would say that violent crime in itself is only one manifestation of violence in our society. "Crime" is a category defined by culture. Remember that the slaughter of native americans, the long hours of labor for children in the mines and mills and the lynching of slaves were manifestations of extreme viloence but not (at the time) of violent "crime".
Thankfully the statistics Brian posted seem to say that some manifestations of violence are lessening. But for me, the key word is "manifestation." In the same way that cold symptoms are an outward manifestation of an inner problem, violent behavior is an outward sign of an inner sickness. And just as holding your nose so it won't drip, doesn't stop a cold, dealing only with the outer symptom of violence won't cure the inner sickness. (I'm NOT saying that this always means the person with the inner sickness has no responsibility for his actions) We DO need to control our outer cold symptoms so as to keep them from hurting others and so too, we need to control violent people to keep them from hurting the rest of us. But dreaming up ever more sophisticated means of dealing with the outer manifestations will never cure the common cold or the root from which violence grows.
A lot of what we call truth is relative. But I think (YMMV) there also exist things that are absolute truths. As sure as there is a "law" of gravity in the physical realm, there are "laws" at all levels of our existence. Learning and living by those laws is the only way we'll change the level of violence in the world.
**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken
Chip Arnold
pandjlocke - Posted - 11/17/2009: 11:46:51
Beginning when I was twelve years old in Pocatello, Id, my friend Colin and I would load up our bicycles with sleeping bags, a pup tent, fishing gear a little food and head off to a little area called Cherry Springs for a week, sometimes two. Cherry Springs is about 11 miles from town, and here were two twelve year olds heading off alone. Our parents allowed it because it was perfectly safe (sure we could see them through the trees in their cars checking up on us about every other day). The point is, would you let your twelve year old and his friend head out of town for a week or two long camping trip on their bikes today? Would you feel that they were safe? Or, if you did, would that be bad parenting? If you answered "No" to the first two questions, and "Yes" to the third, then our society is NOT as safe as it used to be.
Beware of the urgent crowding out the important - C.E. Hummel
Paddy
steve davis - Posted - 11/17/2009: 11:55:02
I think it depends on where your focus lies.
Women were getting slapped around by their husbands,their children
were getting spanked more than today.guys were getting their rocks off by going hunting for certain"types" at bars for the sole purpose of kicking butt.
For certain members of society there have never been any "good ol' days".
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