5stringypsy - Posted - 10/23/2009:  09:24:13

Hey folks. Thought I'd post this in bb,setup,repair, since its about tech aspects of wood.

I understand the breakdown between the different charactersitics of mahogany, maple and walnut. I kept the neck and resonator off my first banjo (I hated the pot). This resonator here has a Definate difference in sound and I have been using it on my parts banjo for a few months. I had assumed that it was rosewood of some kind. It came off an early 70's Japanese banjo made under a German Companys name. Does this indeed look like rosewood of some kind to you? I need to take a few more pics probably, but the inside has some grain to it too, its not finished or anything. Thanks for your input.



HIKE FASTER I hear a banjo...

bluegrassyfz - Posted - 10/23/2009:  09:35:21

looks a lot like brazilian rosewood to me.

Acts 16:31

toneman - Posted - 10/23/2009:  09:39:21

I am pretty certain this is not BRW. it is perhaps Honduran but could be Amazon as well.

toneman

Brian T - Posted - 10/23/2009:  12:14:35

Looks like two pieces, nicely bookmatched along a center line that's nearly vertical in the photo.
Looks too pale and uneven in color (to me) to be any of the rosewoods.
If the underside is raw, no stain or paint, can you see the "pores" in the wood? All over or in ribbon-like bands?
If it came out of the tropics, it could be any one of hundreds of species.
PM Terrence Tan in the Flatpicker Hangout and show him.

We do not know where we are going.
Nor do most of us care.
For us, it is enough that we are on our way.
Le Matelot

grm405 - Posted - 10/23/2009:  13:25:53

It is some type of wood called "Rosewood", but who knows what. These were pretty common, my Kasuga made Alvarez has one as did a Hondo II I had. They are not particularly valuable as you can pick up these banjos now for $300 or so. Pretty face, but not much as far as construction (ie. multiply). My Kasuga is a 14" thick-wall and the Hondo had a weird gaussian shape back, as opposed to a spherical shape. At least the Hondo was a 13 5/8" tapered wall design. Never tried either on a good banjo, but I would not expect either to work very well.

In contrast the Brazillian Rosewood resonator with a carved solid back on my OME Juggernaut does sound very good. It also has a bright, clear tap-tone when struck, as opposed to the dull thud of the multiply Japanese resonators.

Gerry

BanjoSKP

5stringypsy - Posted - 10/23/2009:  13:48:55

It's a little better construct then what was on the Alvarez's I've had and seen. I agree allot of those resonators are stinky. I'm a little partial to this one. I thinks its a little above the cut of the ones you spoke of, and not "overfinished"etc. It sounds great and its already tapped for potentiometer pots and a 1/4output as it was off a banjo that was originally "electrified" :) Its a good utillity piece for me and very pretty to boot, thanks for all your info folks! I feel like its some type of rosewood, I've had an inumeral ammount of assian and spanish classical and folk guitars and this is very similar to some of the "rosewood" guitars I've had from the late 60's and 70's that were touted in their advertising as "rosewood" but I cannot be ceartain. I'll get a few pics of the inside and post them tonight if I get a chance. I'd still like to know. There are so many types of rosewood (paulo escrito etc.) and I'm not at all familiar with them.

HIKE FASTER I hear a banjo...

snakeherd - Posted - 10/23/2009:  14:58:05

My expert eye tells me that it's Peruvian monkeywood. I can tell by the hair. FQMS is building the fretboard of the special BHO banjo out of this rare and pestiferous tonewood.

Scott

5strings3picks1banjo - Posted - 10/23/2009:  15:21:15

Well if it is an Asian banjo it won't be anything fancy.
I have seen Teak that looks a lot like that.
It would be nice to know for sure.

http://www.banjobrothersaustralia.com

Ikaika - Posted - 10/23/2009:  18:26:45

Looks like some kind of inexpensive veneer to me. My guess is that the inside of the resonator is either a white, pine looking wood (possibly stained dark), or Masonite. That's not a bad thing, my old Gold Star had a masonite resonator with veneer (which means they likely went inexpensive on other materials), and it sounded pretty good - not great, but pretty good.

http://www.myspace.com/imthefid

5stringypsy - Posted - 10/23/2009:  20:30:02

some pics of the inside of the resonator. I know it's laminate, yada yada, w/e... I like it, thats whats important. Still no definate answer on what it is.... I took with and without flash. Thanks again folkz!









HIKE FASTER I hear a banjo...

beegee - Posted - 10/23/2009:  21:09:49

There are many varieties of rosewood. Brazilian is favored for it's dramatic grain, and the main reason it's expensive is because of the import/export laws. This resonator is interesting because it seems to be rosewood inside where most resonators are poplar or some other cheaper plies. If I owned it, I'd lose the butterfly. The marquetry is OK


__________________________
"It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing." -Seneca

5stringypsy - Posted - 10/23/2009:  21:45:39

Once again, sir, you are tha man Ty for the chart there. The lines are pretty evident on the thing where the marquetry ends/begins I think it will make my little girl a cute banjer in a few years. The neck that goes with it has little butterfly inlays up the fretboard and headstock hehe... Immagine some of the conversations the first time I took it out to play "hey honey? Did you see that big tattoo'd guy playing that little blonde banjer? WITH THE BUTTERFLIES ON IT????!?!?!?!?!?!? .. " hehe Thanks Beegee

quote:

---

Originally posted by beegee

There are many varieties of rosewood. Brazilian is favored for it's dramatic grain, and the main reason it's expensive is because of the import/export laws. This resonator is interesting because it seems to be rosewood inside where most resonators are poplar or some other cheaper plies. If I owned it, I'd lose the butterfly. The marquetry is OK


__________________________
"It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing." -Seneca

---

desert rose - Posted - 10/24/2009:  02:33:02

You give just enough data and some fine pictures to identify this wood fairly easily and without a doubt, to me

Its called

Sonokelin

It has been used for three decades in Asian instrument manufacturing as a rosewood substitute both fingerboards and guitar back and side are commonly found with this wood

The rosewood Telecasters made in Japan for a couple decades were and are made from this wood

Its not cheap but cheaper than Indian rosewood

Scott

Desert Rose Musical Instruments
www.desertrosebanjo.com

RB3WREATH - Posted - 10/24/2009:  03:18:52

This is East Indian Rosewood
Joe Deetz

desert rose - Posted - 10/24/2009:  05:14:53

Joe

As I posted above Im rather sure its a wood called Sonokelin

Due to the cost of Indian Rosewood, the cost of Asian banjos in the seventys Indian Rosewood would be all but impossible, unless the factory was planning on throwing money away with each banjo

Sonokelin was used back then and often advertised as "rosewood", EVERY Japanese factory used it in place of Indian rosewood for cost performance. Its used extensively today, go to Google and type in the name and hit images, nothing but page after page of stringed instruments

As I said the Japanese Fender ALL "rosewood" Telecasters are in fact Sonokelin while advertised as rosewood and in fact the American made Rosewood Teles were indeed Indian Rosewood.

Thats how close the woods look

The true confirmation for me was the picture of the inside of the resonator, Ive handled way to many rosewood Teles in the raw to not recognize its not Indian but Sonokelin, subtile but definate

Scott

Desert Rose Musical Instruments
www.desertrosebanjo.com

Ks_5-picker - Posted - 10/24/2009:  05:21:29

Scott,can that butterfly be removed and finished over? I've got a similar resonator,finish is bad on it,and it has what looks like faux pearl laid all around in a circular pattern.Is that stuff actually inlaid in the wood or just laid on and finishsed over? thanks.

Rod

Here's some music you might enjoy.

http://cdbaby.com/cd/roddurst

http://tinychat.com/banjolounge Come on in an enjoy!

beegee - Posted - 10/24/2009:  06:09:48

I found out years ago that most of these "inlays" are thin overlays placed in the catalyzed finish. I've sanded several off, especially those large fancy square or diamond-shaped ones. you have to sand the finish completely off and be carefdul not to sand through the veneer.

__________________________
"It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing." -Seneca

beegee - Posted - 10/24/2009:  06:12:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by desert rose

You give just enough data and some fine pictures to identify this wood fairly easily and without a doubt, to me

Its called

Sonokelin

It has been used for three decades in Asian instrument manufacturing as a rosewood substitute both fingerboards and guitar back and side are commonly found with this wood

The rosewood Telecasters made in Japan for a couple decades were and are made from this wood

Its not cheap but cheaper than Indian rosewood

Scott

Desert Rose Musical Instruments
www.desertrosebanjo.com

---

5stringypsy - Posted - 10/24/2009:  06:47:38

See.. This is why I skipped college and went straight to musician

Scott, I'm probably sure I've innocently passed some beautiful, great sounding, solid top classical guitars in the past that were made with this as East Indian Rosewood. The inside of them vs. the outside (backs and sides) were a dead ringer to this resonator. I guess its a pretty good laminate then for back and sides, or common anyway on some better Asian stuff? Is it still used? I think its beautiful.

Beegee I'm tryin to remember the name of that guitar I did what you are saying can be done to. I argued and argued with a couple of friends about a really ornate inlay on the tailpiece end of this odd, but awesomely crafted, neck thru jazz guitar that me and my friends passed back and forth amongst ourselves for several years that the inlay was Real!!!!! One of thems father had cracked on it as "that aint no inlay boy, thats a damn sticker!" Embarassed the crap outa me... I was a little naieve and proud of this guitar at the time and some of my friends thought I knew more than I did... hehe you know, bunch of 20 year old know it alls heh.. make a long story short after a few years I began not to doubt him and took steel wool and grades of sandpaper and woosh!.... it came off like some bad makeup on a back alley NewOrleans special.. I then secretly got rid of it on eBay lol..... of course they all knew not long after. I couldn't keep my mouth shut

Thanks for all ya'lls input!

HIKE FASTER I hear a banjo...

desert rose - Posted - 10/24/2009:  07:20:09

Michael

Go to www.google.com and type in sonokelin

Then hit images up on top, hundreds of hits in the images and almost all are currently made guitars etc

Its more common in use today than thirty years ago. Fingerboards bridges etc on mid and low end Asian guitars are very common and acoustic guitars built with it no longer hide the fact

Thirty years ago it was used to imatate Indian rosewood, even labeled as such in pamphlets and will fool almost everybody

Nowdays as the supply of tropical woods goes away Sonokelin can stand on its own as a rosewood substitute

It will produce an acoustic guitar firmly in the range of rosewood family tone and response

Id have to bet that that butterfly is pearl veneer probable .005 " thick or so and layed into the wet polyester paint on top of the wood

The easy way to tell is look in the light

If there is a depression around it its inlaid if its a bit taller than the paint its laid on top

Scott

Desert Rose Musical Instruments
www.desertrosebanjo.com

desert rose - Posted - 10/24/2009:  07:40:03

Lets see if this works as a link

Here is a Japan Fender rosewood Tele made out of Sonokelin

I was working in engineering at the factory that made these at the time

http://media.photobucket.com/image/...Rosewood.jpg

Scott

Desert Rose Musical Instruments
www.desertrosebanjo.com

Brian T - Posted - 10/24/2009:  09:38:21

Thanks Scott. I've tried to stay away from the tropical woods, just too many.

The resonator appears solid, the book match of the two pieces is really clear in the photo of the inside surface.

We do not know where we are going.
Nor do most of us care.
For us, it is enough that we are on our way.
Le Matelot

beegee - Posted - 10/24/2009:  10:14:38

I doubt it's solid. It may be all the same kind of veneer, but the grain is too far different to be a solid piece of wood all the way through.

__________________________
"It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing." -Seneca

grm405 - Posted - 10/24/2009:  10:22:31

I doubt that the resonator is solid. They just bookmatched the veneer on both sides. I have had a guitar with this same bookmatched veneer on both inside and outside of the back trick. If you look at the resonator you will notice a different grain pattern on the inside, much closer lines than the outside. The outside also has more figure and variation in grain spacing. My OME has a solid resonator back and the grain is similar on both the inside and outside.

Gerry

BanjoSKP

5stringypsy - Posted - 10/24/2009:  11:33:18

I'm gonna have to agree that its not solid, the sides arent anyway, I can see the ply

HIKE FASTER I hear a banjo...

mike gregory - Posted - 10/24/2009:  20:47:44

"Call it whatever you want. WE call it "LUNCH"!
-Timmy Termite & family-

=):{ )
Mike Gregory, Banjo Maker Infraordinaire
When I say my instruments are as good as anything Gibson or Martin ever made,
I mean MEL Gibson and DEAN Martin!


My banjos can be seen on my own website
http://littlebanjos.lunare.net

See me & my SQUARED EEL banjo on the Y'all tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97EfvhFgRBY

Drivel - Posted - 10/26/2009:  05:09:37

lines from Wikipedia.

The pre-eminent rosewood appreciated in the western world is the wood of Dalbergia nigra which is now a CITES-listed endangered species. It is best known as Brazilian Rosewood, but also as "Rio Rosewood" or "Bahia Rosewood." This wood has a strong sweet smell, which persists over the years, explaining the name "rosewood".

Another classic rosewood is that yielded by Dalbergia latifolia known as (East) Indian Rosewood or Sonokeling.

From the web.
It would appear that sonokelin wood is only used in stringed instruments - the only thing it is mentioned for that I could find on the web.

While Sonokeling 'is' Indonesian East Indies rosewood, or plantation grown rosewood 'Dalbergia latifolia' the same tree as Indian rosewood, and sold all over the web. for lots of things from fretboards to floorboards.

Isn't research fun?

Bill

I thought there were rocks in my path, but each was a stepping-stone.

1+1+1+ Infinity =1

Morgan Monroe - Cascade, and Luxmore.

Edited by - Drivel on 10/26/2009 06:34:45

Brian T - Posted - 10/26/2009:  08:13:32

I still think that "lunch" is solid book match. Why? the glue line is oriented the same, inside and out, relative to the position of the electronics (two pot shafts) mounted in the rim. The deposition of lignin substances for the appearance would present different patterns even in such a thin sheet of wood. If not, somebody went to extraordinary lengths to make sure that the glue line on the inside, which nobody normally sees, is oriented just as the centerline is on the outside.

We do not know where we are going.
Nor do most of us care.
For us, it is enough that we are on our way.
Le Matelot