ukd73 - Posted - 05/31/2009:  06:29:34

I got a good deal on a style 11 with a conversion neck already. It has a liberty banjo company tone ring in it. Sounds pretty good just wondering about the history. And how can I tell if the flange and tension hoop are original?
thanks
mike

God blessed me, cause I live in the bluegrass state!

Edited by - ukd73 on 05/31/2009 06:34:29

banjobilly32 - Posted - 05/31/2009:  06:35:05

Liberty Banjo Co. was right here in Bridgeport Ct. They built some fine frailing as well as Bluegrass banjoes. They also had some tonerings, tuners etc. You still find there parts listed on Ebay occasionally.

ukd73 - Posted - 05/31/2009:  06:37:56

Thanks for the info but how old is the company and was their products good quality?

God blessed me, cause I live in the bluegrass state!

ZEPP - Posted - 05/31/2009:  06:42:05

Bob Flesher (who still makes outstanding instruments) was part of the Liberty Banjo Co. (may have been the owner, I simply don't remember), and they were definitely top-notch instruments in the 1970's.

I know no specifics, but Bob probably does!

From his website (http://www.flesherbanjo.com):
Bob Flesher's Custom Banjos
P.O.Box 9950
Moreno Valley, CA 92552
(951) 924-9888
FleshrBnjo@aol.com

Cheers,
ZEPP

ukd73 - Posted - 05/31/2009:  06:46:43

Thanks Zepp I got this banjo from Ct. and stole it at the price I gave for it. Even if the only thing that is original is the rim and resonator I well got my money's worth, 800 bucks. I think any way.


God blessed me, cause I live in the bluegrass state!

ukd73 - Posted - 05/31/2009:  06:52:42

I gotta get ready for Church will be back to see what yall say.
later,
mike

God blessed me, cause I live in the bluegrass state!

steve davis - Posted - 05/31/2009:  07:19:12

You're going to church after stealing a banjo...God won't like that.

Pool

ukd73 - Posted - 05/31/2009:  10:05:25

I didnt really steal it I just offered a price and he took it!
mike

God blessed me, cause I live in the bluegrass state!

pick1936 - Posted - 05/31/2009:  13:25:07

i still have one of Their old Catalogs, If I can find it, I bought a Nice Abalone Truss rod cover, and a M.O. pearl nut, and a real Tortis shell guitar pick from them in 1974, good stuff.


Nechville. In Higginsville.
pick the banjer son.

Lee Kelso

iluvearl - Posted - 05/31/2009:  13:38:56

ukd73: I've got a catalog from Liberty Banjo Co. that states it was founded in June of 1968 by Robert Durham, Robert L. Flesher and Paul M. Morrissey. The catalog is copyrighted 1976. It is illustrated with great photographs by New York photographer Daniel Duffin. They offered high quality reproduction parts, wood carving and engraving for open back banjos as well as Gibson style banjos. They also offered their own quality banjos. They were the "go to" place for banjo enthusiasts. Their flathead rings were around 100.00 for nickle or chrome and 130 for gold plated in '76. They also offered some hard to get items like "hide head bump remover" (for removing annoying bumps encountered when using hide heads made from female cat belly) and the mysterious bronze alloy (90-3-3-4) Liberty Tone Balls; a set of seven guaranteed to make any banjo increase in tone and volume. If you remove the tone ring in your "new" banjo, try not to spill those seven tone balls!

After all this time, you''d think I''d be better by now!--iluvearl

ukd73 - Posted - 05/31/2009:  14:02:06

That's funny my last name is Durham also. I did check out flesher's site his bluegrass banjo is 18,000.00$ sound like I might have some good stuff.
mike

God blessed me, cause I live in the bluegrass state!

Bayou Talker - Posted - 05/31/2009:  14:49:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis

You're going to church after stealing a banjo...God won't like that.

Pool

---

ukd73 - Posted - 05/31/2009:  20:41:34

Cliff is right He is the only one who will forgive you for everything you've done.

God blessed me, cause I live in the bluegrass state!

John J - Posted - 06/01/2009:  05:19:40

The Liberty tone rings were cast at a small foundry right in Bridgeport CT. I spent many hours there and learned a lot about banjos.

John

Anthony Puleo - Posted - 06/01/2009:  06:22:46

Liberty Bnajos were wonderful and of high quality. I think you can find somne history on them at the Mugwumps site

AMP

beegee - Posted - 06/01/2009:  07:05:10

The last banjos I made before leaving Florida in 1976 were made with Liberty parts. I used them primarily, then Stew-Mac, Bill Porter and Bill Sullivan. Nice parts, good prices and good service.

__________________________
"It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing." -Seneca

ukd73 - Posted - 06/02/2009:  13:10:44

thanks guys, I just wanted to see if liberty tone rings were any good and now after going to flesher's site sound like I have quality stuff.
thanks
mike

God blessed me, cause I live in the bluegrass state!

steve davis - Posted - 06/02/2009:  15:57:33

I used to see and play Mike Long's Liberty banjo when he visited my folk's house or I
visited him.It had a beautifully carved eagle on the resonator back and a rope carved in the sides.
I haven't seen him or the banjo in years,but his uncle told me the other day that he still has it.
Mike's a heck of a musician.

Pool

dhergert - Posted - 06/02/2009:  17:22:24

There were three major suppliers of parts in the late 60s to late 70s at least that I was able to find while I was building banjos... Stewart MacDonald and Liberty both sold domesticly made parts, and a little later, Saga was selling pretty high quality imported parts. If I remember correctly, at the time, Liberty was sort of considered the Cadillac of them, their parts were considered by many people in my circle (around Santa Monica, California) to be the best, and their prices were a little higher, enough so that when I had to watch the budget I chose StewMac.

Nowadays, looking back at banjos built back then, I'd observe that the StewMac parts were probably just as well made, but the custom engraving and other more artsy work done by Liberty is really what set them above the rest. And if I'm not mistaken, Bob Flesher was the one who did alot, or maybe most of that.

This is all subjective stuff based on my memories of the times, if others have better recollections I'll be glad to hear them.

Bob's specialized in a number of early banjo styles since then. He works just a few miles from my home and I've often thought it would be very cool to have one of his fretless Boucher or Sweeney models. His work on all his models is widely recognized as top-knotch. His website is at http://www.flesherbanjo.com/ .

Best,

-- Don
http://www.youtube.com/user/dh5string
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

DHutchens - Posted - 06/04/2009:  12:00:50

In the late 60's (1968) Kix Stewart and Bill MacDonald began what we now know as Stu Mac. Before that parts as we know them today were non existant. Gibson was not in the parts business and had little interest in selling individual parts, Just as today. If you needed a new neck or resonator because of damage you had to send the instrument back to the factory and that had to be done through a dealer.
The first time I saw Kix and Bill was in 69 in Berryville and all they had were the heads. Two thicknesses, one a little thinner than a weather king and the other a little thicker . A revolutionary idea for the time period as they wouldn't pull loose around the edges like the weather king did. At that point in time "the" thing to do for a Blue Grass player was thin the bridge as thin as possible and tighten the head to the nth degree from it breaking. Times have changed.

In the1970 season they were back with heads, strings later that year I saw them at Union Grove and some parts, some pearl patterns that I think Ron Chacey cut, by later that year at Camp Springs they had a full compliment of parts pieces, a couple of which they had began to manufacture themselves but many were of West German manufacturers. I hear from Bill from time to time and is on the hangout but seldom post, possibly this will bring him out. The whole Stu Mac story should be committed to paper. If it hadn't been for Kix and Bill, the banjo industry as we know it would not exist today.

By 1970 Liberty's Bob Flesher and Paul M. Morrissey also came on the scene. As mentioned before they offered custom engraving, gold plating, complete necks and resonators, a vast variety of pearl patterns and custom carving as well as They also made thier own Resonators from scratch. Heavy as heck but nice looking. The first time I saw them on the circuit was a Bean Blossom in 71. Bob did the custom work and Paul handled the business end of things. They were wonderful guys to deal with. As time went on they had thier own ring as well as flange.

Lets also not forget Bucks County Folk Music Shop in New Britian Pa. Big Ed and Red traveled the Blue Grass Festival circuit as well starting about 71. Karl Deitrich the owner made many of the parts they sold. They had good resonators and were great to deal with as well. In I974 I got set up with Karl and he would pass along Martin guitars and Gibson banjo at 10% over his cost and I got heavier into the business.

All three of these outfits were really filled voids for us banjo players that wanted a Gibson so bad that we learned to build them ourselves since the company was still about 15 years from building what the banjo buying public wanted.(strangely enough I owe each of these outfits a major debt of graditude for keeping me in the business and adding to my knowledge that allowed me to be a part of the reintroduction of the older Gibson models in 1986) After getting to know each group, I was set up as a "Dealer" being able to buy wholesale which back then was pretty good. By late 74 or early 75 Bill Sullivan had started building neck blanks with the assistance of Harry Sparks and First Quailty came on the scene. In April of 75 Bill and I first worked out a deal that I cut pearl patterns to be offered with his neck blanks. At first Bill was only interested in building the best neck blank anyone could buy, which he did wonderfully. We traded parts, information and sources and later worked again with Gibson when Greg Rich was hired to run the banjo department Greg brought me in as a consultant first then later as Director of Artist Relations/Product Manager.
Guys like Bob and Paul at Liberty, Kix and Bill at Stu Mac, Karl, Ed, and Red at Bucks County along with Bill and later his guys and girls are the unsung heros of the instrument world.
Sorry to hijack the thread but these guys need to be remembered.

I've run on too long, sorry about that


Doug

Retropicker - Posted - 06/04/2009:  14:43:54

Excellent commentary, folks. Thanks, I learned alot.

____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________

Kevin B - Posted - 06/04/2009:  16:08:01

What I remember about Liberty in the 70's is they were good banjos and their strings had yellow fuzzy ends instead of green like the Vega's everyone was mostly using. Is my memory right about the strings?

Kevin ( )==''=~

''Possum, It''s what''s for dinner . . ."

Edited by - Kevin B on 06/04/2009 18:20:22

banjodr - Posted - 06/04/2009:  18:17:52

I still have my Liberty Banjo Catalogue!

Stay Tuned! gDGBD

dhergert - Posted - 06/04/2009:  18:31:37

Great history, Doug, thanks for speaking up.

Best,

-- Don
http://www.youtube.com/user/dh5string
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

steve davis - Posted - 06/04/2009:  18:32:33

You'll notice the name Mike Long in the credits of their catalogue as photolithographer of
the catalogue.His Mom and Dad lived in Port Clyde and Mike would show up once in a while
first with a Gibson 250 in the 60s and later with his carved Liberty which was his pay for his
work on the catalogue.

Pool

El Dobro - Posted - 06/04/2009:  19:13:44

They made the best 5th String Thumb Check Choke on the market.

Don
http://www.myspace.com/eldobro
http://www.myspace.com/pasttimesband
http://www.pasttimesbluegrassband.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/pasttimesbluegrass

steve davis - Posted - 06/04/2009:  19:28:51

I really wanted one of those.

Pool

ukd73 - Posted - 06/05/2009:  04:52:29

Man this thread took off, I have learned a bunch of cool history. Talking about the thin bridge, I got one on this banjo kinda thinking to change it out and see what it sounds like. And when I got the banjo it had the yellow fuzzy ends on the strings, those string have been on there a while I have since of course switched them out but I have a set of old vega light gauge strings.


God blessed me, cause I live in the bluegrass state!

Edited by - ukd73 on 06/05/2009 04:59:40

shclandler - Posted - 06/05/2009:  05:29:24

When I first started on the banjo, I bought the book "Mel Bay's Complete Bluegrass Banjo Method" or something like that, and it had a photo of a beautiful carved and engraved Liberty banjo on the cover. I was very surprised, reading the caption, to learn they were out of Bridgeport, my hometown. Doing some research, I wanted to find this place, but eventually I found out they closed up shop.

Josh

dhergert - Posted - 06/05/2009:  10:37:07

Yup, and their tone balls were hard to beat too.

quote:

---

Originally posted by El Dobro

They made the best 5th String Thumb Check Choke on the market.
...

---

Edited by - dhergert on 06/05/2009 10:38:46

steve davis - Posted - 06/05/2009:  16:36:36

Hide head bump remover

Pool

LEUllman - Posted - 06/06/2009:  11:17:12

A little over a year ago, I bought a beautiful Vega Style X/No. 9 with a conversion neck by Liberty Banjo. (Pictures on my home page.) When I asked the seller (who lives in CT not far from where Liberty was based) about the provenance of the banjo, here's what he said:

"Liberty Banjo was two people - Bob Flesher and Paul. I forget Paul's last name - he died a few years ago. At their height, they had four people in there building for them. Bob, as I remember, was an airline pilot, wasn't around a lot. My banjo was originally a tenor banjo. It belonged to my friend's grandfather, and had spent most of its life in Tennessee. I bought it, and had Liberty make a new neck. Mark Horvath, who worked for Liberty, and who's work is fabulous, faithfully copied a Vega neck right down to every detail. Unfortunately, I gave the [tenor] neck to the folks at Liberty, who used it for another banjo. Liberty Banjo was a great place, we used to go down to play there almost every Saturday afternoon. It was a great pre-gig warm up! I got into playing stand up bass and steel guitar, so I drifted away from the banjo. We do have a terrific claw hammer player with a beautiful Orpheum banjo in our band, though. My son is getting married this fall, and needs some help, so we decided the best thing would be to sell the banjo. I was hoping it would go to a player, and not merely a collector. Sounds like things turned out pretty well! -- Geoff Kooris Ash Creek String Band Fairfield, CT"

If Mark Horvath's work on my fancy No.9 neck is any indication, Liberty must have been the go-to place for sure.

"Oh, the banjo am the instrument for me!"

Edited by - LEUllman on 06/06/2009 11:20:07

johnlightcap - Posted - 07/15/2009:  21:16:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kevin B

What I remember about Liberty in the 70's is they were good banjos and their strings had yellow fuzzy ends instead of green like the Vega's everyone was mostly using. Is my memory right about the strings?

Kevin ( )==''=~

''Possum, It''s what''s for dinner . . ."

---

johnlightcap - Posted - 07/15/2009:  21:19:38

Yes, My Liberty had the fuzzy yellow string ends, bought mine in 1980, still have it. Liberty Quadrille model. Nothing sounds quite like it!!!

pickinpiper - Posted - 11/13/2009:  07:19:02

Did anyone take over Paul Morrissey's side of the business? (Liberty Banjo Co.) I have a quadrille he made for me. I want to get a new head with the logo on it.

banjoy - Posted - 11/14/2009:  00:35:10

I bought a Liberty Top Tension kit (hoop and flange) from them in 1977 to go with the neck I had Bill Sullivan make for me (which was in the rough, I had to finish the neck myself back in 1977). I guess based on what Ive read here, my banjo has some history to it.

Even though I had Bill Sullivan at First Quality make my neck, it was with an inlay pattern I mailed to Bill. I had gotten the inlay from Liberty banjo, which was unmarked but I thought was just some cool old pattern.

Years later I bumped into Bob Flesher at an IBMA show in Knoxville Tennessee and he asked to see my banjo. I was describing the history to him and how I had gotten this cool old inlay pattern from Liberty and had First Quality inlay it. Bob told me that actually it was his design, a custom pattern he had drawn up but never inlaid himself, so he was happy to see it done. Bob was one of the partners of the old Liberty Banjo Company. Wow, talk about feeling tiny. I had no idea until that moment it was Flesher's design. He was so gracious about it and I even had him autograph the inside of my banjo.

Yeah, as someone else pointed out, Bob was a pilot, for Delta I believe, he flew the big jumbo jets. When he wasn't doing that, he was building banjos. I think he's into banjos now and let the flying go.

So as you can see from others here, Liberty banjos and the parts were top-shelf stuff, and Bob's still producing some beautiful work. And he's a real nice guy.

Also, Liberty made the best banjo capo I have ever used before or since, called the "Liberty Binge." I still have mine but the rubber wore out a while back so I'm hoping it can be rebuilt someday ... and it doesn't work well with my new radiussed fingerboard anyway (also made by First Quality), but it's the best flat neck cap I ever used.

Enjoy your banjo it sounds like you got a fantastic deal! Now you have some great history to go with it!

--Frank

Edited by - banjoy on 11/14/2009 00:41:16

Ronnie - Posted - 11/14/2009:  04:55:12

ukd73, sorry to go off the topic. Were you related to, or know of, the late musician James Patterson (Bull) Durham from your area? He moved to TN during the '70's and started a band. I performed with his group for several years.

www.bobbythompsonbanjo.com

pickinpiper - Posted - 11/14/2009:  05:27:00

Haven't had the pleasure of meeting Bob Flesher in person yet. Just thru email. But
I took lessons from Paul in the early 80's. Great guy with lots of stories about the
music and players and of course his home made fly lures. I used to visit the shop he and Bob had in Bridgeport in the 70's and dreamed of owning a Liberty I first bought one of the lower priced one (can't remember the name, Backstep maybe) then a few years later bought a Quadrille (Bob told me recently that the Quad was his design.) Best darn banjo ever made in looks and sound.

John J - Posted - 11/14/2009:  05:27:01

[Also, Liberty made the best banjo capo I have ever used before or since, called the "Liberty Binge." I still have mine but the rubber wore out a while back so I'm hoping it can be rebuilt someday ... and it doesn't work well with my new radiussed fingerboard anyway (also made by First Quality), but it's the best flat neck cap I ever used.

The Liberty Bringe was made by John Bringe of CT. There is two things you can do to repair it. 1) Take the rubber out,turn it over and glue it back in. 2) Slip a piece of rubber tubing over the whole arm. You can get the tubing at Auto Zone. Vacuum line works fine.

John

vtyankee5 - Posted - 11/14/2009:  17:07:17

John Drummond in GA owns the Liberty Banjo Company rights.

fiddlebuster - Posted - 11/16/2009:  05:49:27

Look at John's site www.banjo.com they have them in stock.

The way I see it, the Good Lord made us all, and if we're good enough for him, we ought to be good enough for each other. Jed Clampett