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alanjg1 - Posted - 03/18/2007: 09:24:31
I just noticed a late 60's All American tenor banjo on eBay,
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....98&rd=1&rd=1
It got me wondering about what a pre war All American would be worth/valued at. I understand that Gibson only made around 15 of these things. (On any photos I have seen, they have all been 1 piece flange.) I have seen a few pre war Florentines selling for around $15000 on and off eBay but in some years of watching I have never seen a PW All American for sale.
Interested in any opinions.
Good health and happiness to all.
Alan (UK)
grassman - Posted - 03/18/2007: 14:03:48
I really don't know much at all about the all american, just found these pictures to be interetsing. They were posted by Old Red on Bluegrass Rules sometimes back from his pictures collection. Hope he doesn't mind me posting them and his story over here.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h...8bf4b4f0.jpg
KENTUCKY SLIM AND DON RENO ALL AMERICAN PREWAR 5-STRING
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h...34b3bfc6.jpg
DICK SMITH AT INDIAN SPRINGS 1972
PICKIN A PRE WAR GIBSON ALL AMERICAN 5-STRING
ALL ORIGINAL, 5-STRING FLATHEAD
THIS IS THE ONE THEY NEVER MADE
OK.....IT WAS ME.....THE PICTURE WAS TAKEN AT INDIAN SPRINGS MD. AT THE BLUEGRASS UNLIMITED BLUEGRASS FEST.
RENO WAS PICKING "THE"...BANJO...AND KENTUCKY SLIM WAS PICKING MY DADS MARTIN D - 45 ....
THE GIBSON ALL AMERICAN " ALL ORIGINAL PRE WAR ...ORIGINAL FLATHEAD...ORIGINAL 5-STRING NECK.....CAME OUT OF NORTH CAROLINA -SOUTHERN VA. AREA.....THEFIRST TIME I SAW IT WAS IN ABOUT 1961 IN BORDENTOWN NJ.....A MAN BY THE NAME OF " TWO TON "FROM NORTH CAROLINA WAS WORKING IN THE AREA AND HE HAD THE BANJO....I DONT THINK HE PLAYED IT OR MAYBE JUST A LITTLE......HE WOULD COME IN TO A LOCAL CLUB WHERE WE WERE PLAYING BLUEGRASS...HE TOLD ME HE HAD AN OLD GIBSON BANJO ...AND BOUGHT IT INTO THE CLUB TO SHOW ME .....HE BOUGHT THIS OLD BANJO CASE IN POOR CONDITION AND WHEN I OPENED UP THE CASE....THERE IT WAS....OLD STRINGS OLD HEAD...A LITTLE GREEN FROM LAYING IN THAT CASE....IT LOOKED LIKE IT HADN'T BEEN PLAYED IN SOME TIME......BUT IT WAS THE REAL THING....THE BANJO OF ALL BANJOS....
I GET ALL EXCITED JUST THINKING ABOUT IT.....
OF CORSE I ASKED HIM IF HE WANTED TO SELL IT....BUT HE SAID HE HAD ALREADY PROMISED TO SELL IT TO ANOTHER BANJO PICKER NAMED "MAC JUSTICE"......WELL I BEGGED HIM FOR AWHILE....BUT HE WOULD NOT BUDGE...
THE NEXT TIME I SAW IT MAC JUSTICE OWNED IT.....MAC WAS A BIG TIME COLLECTOR OF BANJOS...AND A GOOD EARLY SCRUGGS PICKER... AND A FAIRLEY GOOD FRIEND OF MINE....
WELL TIME WENT BY....I WENT TO VIETNAM....CAME BACK....IN 1967..
THEN IN ABOUT 1968 I GOT A PHONE CALL FROM MAC...ASKING ME IF I WAS INTERESTED IN THE ALL AMERICAN.....
WAS I !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MAC WAS GOING INTO BUSINESS..STARTING UP A VW. AUTO BUSINESS...AND WAS SELLING OFF SOME OF HIS BANJOS.....SO I GO A FRIEND OF MINE TO FRONT ME THE MONEY TO GET THE BANJO....$2000.00
NOW THAT DONT SOUND LIKE ANY MONEY AT ALL NOW.....BUT BACK THEN
I HAD NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE PAYING MORE FOR A BANJO......
AND THE RB-18 RODGER SPRUNG HAD FOR SALE BACK THEN HE HAD IT FOR SAIL FOR $1200.00....I PICKED IT A FEW TIMES BUT THOUGHT IT WAS TOO MUCH MONEY......
WELL...BACK TO THE ALL AMERICAN....
THE BANJO WAS ON THE COVER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD SECTION OF THE OLD PHILADELPHIA BULITON NEWS PAPER.....AND THE FINGERBOARD IS ON THE FINGERBOARD POSTER THAT WAS PUT OUT BY THE OLD " PICKIN " MAG.
AT THE TIME 1969 - 1977 I WAS WORKING AT " BUCKS COUNTY MUSIC"
AN EARLY VERSION OF ...WELL LETS SAY ...A CROSS BETWEEN " POKY AND FIRST QUALITY MUSIC".......WE WENT TO ALL THE EARLY FESTIVALS AND SET UP AND SOLD ...AND THAT WAS WHERE WE WERE AT WHEN I TOOK THE PICTURE OF RENO PICKING THE BANJO......
Jeff Ellis
CD's Now Available
http://www.myspace.com/rickyjeffellis
grich - Posted - 03/18/2007: 17:36:41
When I was doing some restoration work for the Tsumura Collection from 1988 to 1996 Akira was paying around $ 30 to 50 K for original tenor and plectrums.
Greg Rich
southerndrifter - Posted - 03/18/2007: 19:06:21
quote:
Originally posted by alanjg1
(On any photos I have seen, they have all been 1 piece flange.)
Alan, I have never seen a prewar All American that had a 1-piece flange. Almost all of the high end banjos (with the AA being the highest of them all) had 2-piece flanges.
Lynwood Lunsford
"Alright fellas, shake hands and come out pickin'!!"
southerndrifter - Posted - 03/18/2007: 19:10:38
[quote]Originally posted by grassman
I really don't know much at all about the all american, just found these pictures to be interetsing. They were posted by Old Red on Bluegrass Rules sometimes back from his pictures collection. Hope he doesn't mind me posting them and his story over here.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h...8bf4b4f0.jpg
KENTUCKY SLIM AND DON RENO ALL AMERICAN PREWAR 5-STRING
To date, there has never been an authenticated original 5 string prewar All American. I know some people have said they existed (like Ol Red) but Johnny Whisnant was reponsible for most of this confusion. He made some really authentic looking 5 string necks, way back in the '60's and put them on some tenor AA's. That is what Reno is holding, in the picture that Ol Red posted.
Lynwood Lunsford
"Alright fellas, shake hands and come out pickin'!!"
southerndrifter - Posted - 03/18/2007: 19:12:59
A close friend of mine has a 1980 Gibson AA 5 string that he has been offered a solid $25,000 for. It was built by Gibson to be used at that year's NAMM show and then it was supposed to circulate around to any of the Gibson dealers that wanted to display in their stores. My friend wanted one, had the cash and Gibson sold it to him before it got much display time!!
Lynwood Lunsford
"Alright fellas, shake hands and come out pickin'!!"
BanjoBil - Posted - 03/18/2007: 19:22:13
That would be a pricey conversion neck that tenor one on ebay.
....Bill
1927 TB-3 Archtop
2000 RB-18
Recording King RK-80 #60
grich - Posted - 03/18/2007: 21:17:15
alan
In answer to your email Gibson did build Florentines and All Americans with one piece flanges. Some of the ones I restored are pictured in the Tsumura book.
Greg Rich
stanger - Posted - 03/19/2007: 01:55:46
quote:
Originally posted by southerndrifter
[quote]Originally posted by grassman
I really don't know much at all about the all american, just found these pictures to be interetsing. They were posted by Old Red on Bluegrass Rules sometimes back from his pictures collection. Hope he doesn't mind me posting them and his story over here.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h...8bf4b4f0.jpg
KENTUCKY SLIM AND DON RENO ALL AMERICAN PREWAR 5-STRING
To date, there has never been an authenticated original 5 string prewar All American. I know some people have said they existed (like Ol Red) but Johnny Whisnant was reponsible for most of this confusion. He made some really authentic looking 5 string necks, way back in the '60's and put them on some tenor AA's. That is what Reno is holding, in the picture that Ol Red posted.
Lynwood Lunsford
Hi, Lynwood...
I'm not contesting your remarks, but have some questions:
I heard of Mr. Whisnant was around '68. If Ol Red first saw the banjo in 1961, the question would be: when did Johnny begin building repro necks? Didn't he also make one of the necks on Scruggs' banjo?
Secondly, who would be considered the authority who would authenticate a banjo like this?
I have that old Pickin' poster that was mentioned, and if Ol' Red's story is true, and the old guy didn't play it much, I wonder who put all the wear on the fingerboard. The banjo wear looked exactly the same in the poster. I remember thinking at the time that the picture went against all the common knowledge of the AA's back in 1974, no 5-string was thought to exist back then, too.
regards,
Stanger
southerndrifter - Posted - 03/19/2007: 09:20:06
[/quote]
Hi, Lynwood...
I'm not contesting your remarks, but have some questions:
I heard of Mr. Whisnant was around '68. If Ol Red first saw the banjo in 1961, the question would be: when did Johnny begin building repro necks? Didn't he also make one of the necks on Scruggs' banjo?
Secondly, who would be considered the authority who would authenticate a banjo like this?
I have that old Pickin' poster that was mentioned, and if Ol' Red's story is true, and the old guy didn't play it much, I wonder who put all the wear on the fingerboard. The banjo wear looked exactly the same in the poster. I remember thinking at the time that the picture went against all the common knowledge of the AA's back in 1974, no 5-string was thought to exist back then, too.
regards,
Stanger
[/quote]
My sources say that Johnny Whisnant began building repo AA 5 string necks as early as the late '50's. I have never heard of him building a neck for Scruggs but he might have.
Some of the "experts" I am referring to are people like George Gruhn, Curtis McPeake, Doug Hutchens and Clarence Hall. None of them have ever seen an original prewar 5-string AA.
Concerning the OPF AA's, I went back through my literature and discovered that the AA's were produced up until 1935. They were included in Gibson's 1935 catalog. And at least 4 lots were built with OPF's, #9747 and #9748, which both came from 1934 and #9947 and #9948, both from 1935.
Lynwood Lunsford
"Alright fellas, shake hands and come out pickin'!!"
southerndrifter - Posted - 03/19/2007: 11:10:45
quote:
Originally posted by El Dobro
There's a pic of a OPF, double cut peghead Florentine in one of George Gruhn's books.
Don
http://www.myspace.com/eldobro
http://www.pasttimesbluegrassband.com
http://www.myspace.com/pasttimesband
Don, if I'm not mistaken, Greg Earnest has a pic of an original prewar 5-string, flathead, OPF Florentine, with double-cut peghead. It was a special order for a lady (can't remember her name) and I think it came from 1934. Of all the "fancy" banjo models, I think the Florentine was the prettiest!
Lynwood Lunsford
"Alright fellas, shake hands and come out pickin'!!"
Wayne Holcombe - Posted - 03/19/2007: 14:16:22
Ain't much call for the fancy ,gold plated banjo.They mostly go unclaimed.If anyone runs into one let me know,I might make an offer on it just to keep it from tainting the market.
Wayne
jfb - Posted - 03/19/2007: 18:06:36
I once heard of an original AA five string, it was out from Asheboro NC, east toward Raleigh. I went on a couple of hunts trying to find it, but didn't. This was in the late 70's To find an original five string would be quite the acomplishment, for it to be a flathead..what are the odds of that..about like hitting the loto I would guess...
One picture is worth a thousand words..
southerndrifter - Posted - 03/19/2007: 19:04:36
quote:
Originally posted by jfb
I once heard of an original AA five string, it was out from Asheboro NC, east toward Raleigh. I went on a couple of hunts trying to find it, but didn't. This was in the late 70's To find an original five string would be quite the acomplishment, for it to be a flathead..what are the odds of that..about like hitting the loto I would guess...
One picture is worth a thousand words..
That's the area I grew up in and the only AA I"ve ever seen in NC is a 1980 RB-AA. I know of a few original prewar flathead 5-strings in this area but none of them are AA's.
Lynwood Lunsford
"Alright fellas, shake hands and come out pickin'!!"
1935tb-11 - Posted - 03/20/2007: 04:56:34
hey lwood is that the same AA that the neck was broken in and
had to be sent back for replacement aka lawson?
terry m
n.c.
4 longs and 1 short=banjer ring !!!
Edited by - 1935tb-11 on 03/20/2007 04:57:36
southerndrifter - Posted - 03/20/2007: 09:01:41
quote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11
hey lwood is that the same AA that the neck was broken in and
had to be sent back for replacement aka lawson?
terry m
n.c.
4 longs and 1 short=banjer ring !!!
Yep, that'd be the one!! He actually backed over the banjo and broke the neck!! OUCH!!
Lynwood Lunsford
"Alright fellas, shake hands and come out pickin'!!"
southerndrifter - Posted - 03/20/2007: 09:04:28
I"ve been having some interesting conversations with this guy from Switzerland that has the TB-AA on Ebay. He swears that it doesn't have a serial # on the banjo. I just think that, if it's authentic, it ought to have a serial # on it SOMEWHERE. If not on the back of the peghead (and it might not because of the carving) then stamped on the rim. I also believe it should have a sticker in it that says "Made in Kalamazoo". What do ya'll think?
Lynwood Lunsford
"Alright fellas, shake hands and come out pickin'!!"
rimmerron - Posted - 03/21/2007: 22:55:28
I own a Gibson AA serial #14. My dad ordered it from Gibson new in 1976 and it took almost a year to get it. The serial number is handwritten on the label. Original 5 string. I played it for several years but the sound was less than desireable so we put a Ryann ring in it and it is much better now. Have not played it in years, just take it out of the case every now and then put it back. Might be interested in selling it if anyone is interested. RON
MikeHashem - Posted - 03/29/2008: 15:17:17
Interesting to hear all the "hearsay stories" Re; the Pre War AA. I personally own a 1934 AA. I have never seen a 5 string or even a plectrum . People who have said they saw one have never produced the proof of one for me to look at. I have chased these leads for 40 years. As far as I know, none were ever made. No more than 10 banjos were produced and most were one piece flanges and 40 hole archtops. I have seen a dark AA with a 2 piece flange, and have handled 4 total of these prewar models. Also the decal was the same as anyother model mastertone. I hope this will be of help in the history of these models. PS I purchased mine from the origonal owner!!!!!! Thanks for reading. Mike Hashem banjomikehashem@aol.com
ejimb0 - Posted - 03/31/2008: 02:24:23
I would like to vote yes on the existence of a pre-war RB AA.
Would it be the rarest banjo in the world?
How much would it be worth?
jimbo
Hi Mom!
southerndrifter - Posted - 03/31/2008: 09:34:23
quote:
Originally posted by ejimb0
I would like to vote yes on the existence of a pre-war RB AA.
Would it be the rarest banjo in the world?
How much would it be worth?
jimbo
Hi Mom!
Trust me, it exists! And a actual picture of it was posted on BHO awhile back. My sources tell me that it resides in a museum and has never been put on public display.
I don't know about the rarest banjo in the world.........the gold-plated Mac Crowe RB-75 might be a contender for that title too! It's worth what someone would pay for it..........which would probably be quite alot.
Lynwood Lunsford
"Alright
