jimbowilly1960 - Posted - 10/09/2021:  08:12:23

Hi,
Does it go without saying that luthiers who market their own line of stringed instruments are also available to repair customer's stringed instruments regardless of the brand of the stringed instrument in need of repair?

Shouldn't there be categories distinguishing between "Instrument Makers" and "Stringed Instrument Repair"?

With there being so few known luthiers here within the immediate vicinity of the state of New York. Along with my not wanting to ship my instrument(s) if at all possible. Banjo repair and help with initial set up has been next to mission impossible.

Thx,
Jim W.
Troy(Brunswick), NY

Brian Murphy - Posted - 10/09/2021:  08:24:19

No. Many builders do not do repairs. They focus on their core business. Plus, repairs is a tricky, labor-intensive and sometimes difficult venture as customers can be difficult. If you can devote all of your time to pumping out new stuff (i.e. getting it done right the first time), you probably won't do repair work on someone else's products, except as a favor.

Many repair people are so busy they don't market at all, and don't need to. One suggestion might be to search for the members in your area on this site and PM them. I found a great guy in our area from another member. But you won't find him on the web.

luthier65 - Posted - 10/09/2021:  09:51:09

Repair is a totally different animal from making. They are two different skill sets.

Zachary Hoyt - Posted - 10/09/2021:  09:53:39

I am a builder and do not call myself a luthier, and I usually don't do repairs. I learned about building by buying damaged instruments and repairing them, but in that case there was little risk since I had bought them cheaply and if I found they were beyond reasonable repair it was my decision to continue, give them away on Craigslist or whatever. If it's someone else's instrument that they want repaired it usually has either monetary or sentimental value, so I am more worried about messing it up while trying to fix it. Also I'm colorblind so I can't do finish touch up that blends in with the original in most cases.



I have done setup work for people for banjos and fiddles, made bridges etc, and I am happy to spend half an hour on that kind of thing and do not charge for it. If it's a bigger job I am leery of getting into it, since so often there are problems hidden under other problems that are not apparent at first. Building is much simpler, although I do keep trying new things from time to time. If I mess up a part for an instrument I'm building I can just make another one to replace it.

Edited by - Zachary Hoyt on 10/09/2021 09:54:17

MacCruiskeen - Posted - 10/09/2021:  11:10:35

quote:

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Originally posted by Zachary Hoyt

I am a builder and do not call myself a luthier, a

 

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Why not?. A luthier is someone who builds stringed lute-like instruments. If that's what you do, then it is fair game.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 10/09/2021:  11:19:16

People choose to do what they like/want/are good at to do. If a banjo "builder" wishes to just build banjos, that's what he does. If a repairperson chooses to just do repairs and doesn't want to build an entire instrument, that's up to the person also. If someone wants to do both, then that's what they choose to do.



It's not up to us to expect a person to do one or the other or both.



If you're looking for a luthier (banjo builder), contact them and ask what they do. If you're looking for a repairperson, contact them and ask what they do. It's up to you to find who is right for your problem.

Edited to add:  There probably isn't enough interest to make separate forums for each type of builder/repairperson although it might be possible to add categories to the list of luthiers.   I'm not computer savvy enough to know if it would be easy, difficult or impossible. 

Edited by - Texasbanjo on 10/09/2021 11:21:42

Zachary Hoyt - Posted - 10/09/2021:  12:12:14

quote:

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Originally posted by MacCruiskeen

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zachary Hoyt

I am a builder and do not call myself a luthier, a

 

---

Why not?. A luthier is someone who builds stringed lute-like instruments. If that's what you do, then it is fair game.

---

I got kind of soured on the term some years ago on the Fiddle Hangout when luthiers were arguing about who was entitled to call themself a luthier.  I wasn't involved in that debate, but what I came away with as a spectator was that in some luthiers' opinion a luthier was someone with a big ego who charged very high rates and only worked on valuable instruments.  This convinced me of two things: 1. I was not  a luthier(I hadn't thought I was before, but now I knew I wasn't) and 2. that I was going to hang out less over there.

I have no problem with anyone using the term in any way they like to, but I'm happier just to be a builder or maker or something like that.   Words are complicated and it would be easier in person just to point at a banjo and grunt, but it's hard to grunt lucidly online in my experience.  

Edited by - Zachary Hoyt on 10/09/2021 12:12:43

Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/09/2021:  14:33:29

Frank Ford and Richard Johnston built a small number of instruments before abandoning building for repair and retail for economic reasons. When they started, custom instruments did not bring the remuneration they do now. That said, repair is indeed a different art, as anyone who has spent time on frets.com well knows. Banjo makers/builders/mechanics have to deal with more mechanical work than guitar builders. And dealing with dowelstick banjos is different enough from co-rod ones that some banjo makers/repairers deal only with one or the other. Were I going on name alone, I’d rather trust a self-styled “banjo mechanic” than a “luthier.”

Edited by - Bill Rogers on 10/10/2021 10:29:13

Banner Blue - Posted - 10/09/2021:  14:39:57

Folks who are excellent at repair--I often identify them by the quality of their touchup work, sometimes evolve into builders. The mark of a superior repair folk is that the repair is so well done, it is practically undetectable. Repairing lots of fine instruments provides an excellent understanding of what goes into making fine instruments in several dimensions. We all have egos. Building is much less anonymous and provides much more of a legacy.

Bob Smakula - Posted - 10/10/2021:  07:44:04

I do not take the moniker “Luthier” seriously. It is a self-applied title that can mean anything from the guy that changes strings at the local guitar center to a gifted craftsman that does awe inspiring work creating musical instruments. I have seen some of the worst handmade instruments on the planet crafted by people advertising themselves as “luthiers”.



About 30 years ago when the term Luthier was newish, I embraced it. Mostly to confuse new acquaintances that asked me about my occupation. With my growing opinion that there are no standards for so-called luthiers, my self-applied title is “string instrument restoration artisan”. Too many words to put on most government forms, but a better description of the work I like to do. Though as my business has grown I am more of a “self-employed businessman” than a craftsman.



Building and repair are very different skill sets. The most common question I get from folks is; “Do you build instruments too, or just repair?” After laughing I explain that repair is significantly harder than building. Building an instrument uses all new wood and you can have your own design elements in the final product. Repair and restoration means fussing with old wood that has is quirks and requires mimicking the countless construction styles of the original builders. In striving to be invisible in the work we do in my shop. we constantly study the work of the builders whose instruments we are repairing. We want a Vega to look like a Vega and Cole to look like a Cole when we are done.



And in our market niche, I have learned to say no to repairs that are out of our skill set. A customer asking “What do you charge for adding a layer of wood to a thin banjo rim Gibson?” was met with “Never done it, and I do not have the tooling or skills to do it.”



My shop always has more than enough work. Between the instruments I buy for resale and customers needing our specialized services there is always a backlog of work. For example there are currently about 20 banjos on our waiting list. I have never advertised our repair services. People that need us find us. And with my age being 63, there will be a time in the not so distant future when my shop does not accept any major repair at all.



Bob Smakula

smakula.com

Helix - Posted - 10/18/2021:  09:10:19

I can make money building. If I have to stop and repair or build a single rim or neck, I'm reluctant unless it's fun for me. I can't make money back and forth. I like helping somebody just starting out because we all struggled, so can they, not too alone, however, it makes better us.



For repairs, I charge $40 for a shop hour, which I think is a sliding scale, no observation nor Kibbutzing, unless I know whose presence I am in, then assistance might be enlisted to hold something with their hands and laughing about getting charged to help me do the work.



I have more work because other builders get cranky, won't answer emails, rude when they do, or they tell the person, "just email me." I follow up with customer service calls later, just sayin', there's a Helix in Wasilla and can see Russian banjo players who really dig Bluegrass, by the way.



We are never THAT busy; that courtesy and class can emerge from the responsibility we owe the banjo community for having access to 125,000 banjo people for FREE, should be a given



Also we've seen personal vendettas here, and hearsay isn't against the rules?



But given that, I've seen the most interesting builds, concepts and hard work presented here just to be looked over by the "masking" that people can do on the internet. Opinions have power if represented as fact.



The little guy can keep from being trampled by the "Big Boys". "We're not Big Boys, we only have 50 employees", ok then.



The little guy always matters.



I know OF a builder, he's in Cahoots with a lot of little guys, in fact, he is the Big Guy. His wife is just the same, a real Angel who dresses in Green. Together they take care of the little guys at home, and in the shop, it's just a miracle.  they have willing assistants from the "Barn."

Lots of hot Chocolate. So be good, I know of other little guys planning a big surprise for ones they love all year, just a special surprise from the "shop."



And you can volunteer anonymously on behalf of your loved ones of all ages all year, every moment we can be with them, play for them, build, repair, do all you can, now. Tell no one.

Edited by - Helix on 10/18/2021 09:13:56