trapdoor2 - Posted - 11/17/2014:  10:43:42

ebay.com/itm/Bacon-Day-Silver-...e95109eff

Yet another banjo that I wish would follow me home...

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/17/2014:  11:51:44

Interesting - this SB is one of the earliest with a Type II tone ring (inside perforated).

The laminated resonator with 3 inlaid rings and a F-hole flange is most likely a later (factory?) up-date.

91 years old a few months ago - I hope, that this lovely Lady finds a nice new home.

Polle

banjotrader - Posted - 11/17/2014:  12:07:27

Very nice...   Polle in your opinion, how does the position of the bridge affect the tone versus the "to the body" designs?  I dont recall having seen many of these in the plectrum realm...

esmic - Posted - 11/17/2014:  13:11:57

Polle : Have you any info on scale length for  PB extended fbds? On this one, the neck has 20 frets to rim and four extended. A regular PB has 22 frets to the rim,  suggesting this extended PB has a longer scale length.

thelostchord - Posted - 11/17/2014:  13:57:50

This is a 20 fret TENOR with an extended fingerboard....plectrum it is not.

richard baskowski - Posted - 11/17/2014:  14:14:29

lovely Tenor, maybe 1925?

skip sail - Posted - 11/17/2014:  14:16:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by seanmoyses

This is a 20 fret TENOR with an extended fingerboard....plectrum it is not.

---

correct. seems a bit pricey,given that the market for tenor players is slow.

banjotrader - Posted - 11/17/2014:  15:23:03

I just ran some proportion calculations and I come out with an approx. 26" scale length...  So why is it not a plectrum Sean??  Im not entirely familiar with plectrum naming, so is it strictly defined by the number of frets clear to the body?

NYCJazz - Posted - 11/17/2014:  16:19:39

I took the image into photoshop... I think that is a standard tenor scale... unless the pot is bigger than the standard 11".

Love seeing that bound peghead... The sure sign of a #3 or above!

banjotrader - Posted - 11/17/2014:  17:28:24

Nathan, here is my process.  I'm bound by an ~26"SL.  I just cant get to 23".  Im measuring in a linear fashion in order to waive angular distortion of the image.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 11/17/2014:  17:43:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjotrader

I just ran some proportion calculations and I come out with an approx. 26" scale length...  So why is it not a plectrum Sean??  Im not entirely familiar with plectrum naming, so is it strictly defined by the number of frets clear to the body?

---

There is always a bit of inaccuracy when calculating proportions from a photograph.  If the neck is even slightly more distant from the camera than the pot, for instance, the pot will appear to be larger, the neck slightly shorter. Round objects can appear to be oblong if shot at a slight angle. That's due mostly to perspective. However, lenses are never perfect, either, and Items seen at the edge of the lens are almost always slight distorted. One can get close with one's calculations, but close isn't usually accurate enough from a simple photo.

mikehalloran - Posted - 11/17/2014:  17:52:49

A 17 fret Bacon with a 26" scale? Really? If true the bridge would be nearly touching the tailpiece to get the intonation right.

I don't think so.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/17/2014:  23:26:24

Guys,

Sorry - but "There Was Something Rotten in Groton", it seems.

I noticed only the too early resonator last night.

This morning I realized that some other features are too early for the stamped serial number as well - CONCLUSION - the serial number is mis-stamped. It will have to be f.ex. 14109, 15109, 16109, 17109 etc. - hard to tell - 17109 would be a good guess as "1" and "7" looks a little the same. Do have in mind that electric light wasn´t very bright back in the 20s.

And yes - it´s a 23" scale 19+5 fret tenor - all-original, it seems.

Regarding price - 3K seems IMO fair for this banjo.

Polle

PS!

​Peter - the bridge is not positioned correctly

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/18/2014:  00:53:26

For comparison - two SB #1 Ext. FB tenors of mine:

Polle

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 11/18/2014:  06:34:40

The serial nuimber appears to me to be exactly what it looks like: 11109. Those three "1s" look identical.

Is it perhaps possible that this banjo was returned to Bacon at some later date to be "modernized?"

banjotrader - Posted - 11/18/2014:  12:41:09

I stand corrected, I forgot to account for the viewpoint slant aside from the angle distortion...  I do get back to 23" SL now.  

Polle do there exist, to your knowledge, any Tenor SilverBell banjos that have the scale length, but not the frets?  I.e. 23" SL, but not 19 frets clear to the body?  Outside of the banjo world, in the last 20's the guitar makers were toying with the sound holes and bridge placement to give ex 23" SL tenor players fretboard back from the typical 12 fret to the body...

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/19/2014:  00:09:50

quote:

---

Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

Is it perhaps possible that this banjo was returned to Bacon at some later date to be "modernized?"

---

George,

Hardly - this would imply a new neck, new tuners, new resonator and flange, an Ottinger TP plus a soft pedal mute - it would most likely have been cheaper to purchase a new banjo.

Bacon did from time to time mis-stamp the serial number. Most cases were discovered by the QC - leading to an over-stamp of one digit - but some examples did slip through.

Polle

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/19/2014:  00:13:18

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjotrader

Polle do there exist, to your knowledge, any Tenor SilverBell banjos that have the scale length, but not the frets?  I.e. 23" SL, but not 19 frets clear to the body?  Outside of the banjo world, in the last 20's the guitar makers were toying with the sound holes and bridge placement to give ex 23" SL tenor players fretboard back from the typical 12 fret to the body...

---

Peter,

No - all 23" scale SB´s seen/experienced by me do have the same placement of the bridge and thus 19 frets.

Polle

banjotrader - Posted - 11/19/2014:  04:45:30

Polle,



Very interesting...  Given this SB example has the extended fingerboard, it must also have a raised neck to provide the clearance over the head; somewhat similar to the angle modifications you and Vinnie make.  In this case, were these style intended for ~5/8"+ bridge in order to provide adequate action of the fingerboard?

Edited by - banjotrader on 11/19/2014 04:47:38

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/19/2014:  05:41:32

Peter,

Yes - the examples with an extended FB that I´ve worked on were meant for a 5/8" bridge - whereas the vast majority of the examples without an extension were meant for a ½" bridge ab factory.

Polle

banjotrader - Posted - 11/19/2014:  07:25:26

Again, this is of interest.  Given the elegant/precise modifications that you perform to obtain best performance&playability, why might these original banjos have already been setup in that fashion?

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 11/19/2014:  08:49:33

Thanks for the info regarding (im)possible modifications. It was only a thought, anyway.

I've seen photos of overstamped serials on banjos, and not just from B&D. I would have figured a mis-stamp would be caught and re-stamped, but I guess even the best companies once in a while miss one.

I have seen one B&D Silver Bell#3 plectrum which was heavily updated. The serial number placed it as a 1923 model, (according to your records) but it had the 3rd version tone ring (no holes). This one was, however, obviously a later "restored" model, and I suspect was assembled from parts. Still sounded good, though.

banjotrader - Posted - 11/19/2014:  15:15:42

I've checked with the ebay listing owner and the rim SN matches, so a real Cioci make-over?