skip sail - Posted - 08/24/2014:  00:49:47

a recent forum post about bacon and day 5 strings made me get out mine and remind myself how darn good it is.

I have a 1920 gibson GB4 guitar banjo that I love, but i'm starting to hanker for a  B+D Silver Bell guitjo, even though i've never played one.

Am i being silly? I love the 14 inch gibson guitar banjos, but arent that fond of the smaller Vegas and other vintage guitjo's.

still,i cant get this vague sense of unfulfilled possibility out of my system until i either play a Silver bell guitjo,or speak to someone who has.

Anybody out there own one ?

pgroff - Posted - 08/24/2014:  05:15:57

Hi skip,

I've had my eye out for one of these also.  There were a couple times when I had the money but none were available, and then a couple times when there was one for sale but beyond my budget! Retrofret in NY and Buddy Wachter have sold them in the past few years.  Findajo had one that needed work a couple of years ago, and seemed a good deal as a player.  I've corresponded with a few owners about them, including haildixon who's a member here:

banjohangout.org/my/haildixon

I bet you can find one if you put your usual effort into the search!  When you do, please tell us about it.  Best of luck!

PG

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 08/26/2014:  02:27:21

Skip,

The 20s Silver Bell banjuitars do all have an 11½" head, AFAIK - however do have a look at the bottom of this page from a 1937 music store catalog:

Along with the new Swing SB model a SB banjuitar with a 14" head !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Extremely few were built, I take - Bacon had to close the Groton works the following year, as you may know - I´ve never seen an example like this - and none are represented in my databases.

Polle

skip sail - Posted - 08/26/2014:  02:48:58

Thats done it!
now i will never sleep soundly again,knowing that my dream girl actually does exist somewhere out there.
i have to have one'
I really,really do.
I mean,a 14 inch SB guitjo,what greater heights could one aspire to?
I'm selling lots of stuff at the moment,but I will keep a couple of special ,high ticket items, to trade for one of these.
Polle, you absolutely have ruined my life...:)

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 08/26/2014:  03:10:06

Skip - I love you too! LOL!

I do for now have only 8 examples of the late/ultra-rare B&D Swing Silver Bell tenor model (as shown) represented in my databases - f.ex. the general DB version acoustudio.dk/BD_and_Bacon_database.html - two of these banjos are pt. in my workshop - a third will arrive soon.

So - as we say over here - here´s where it snows!  Meaning - if a 14" SB Banjuitar will pop up - it will most likely be in my workshop - LOL!

If so - I´ll let you know!

Polle

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 08/26/2014 03:11:14

NYCJazz - Posted - 08/26/2014:  07:22:04

I got to check out the 6-string SB that Retrofret had. They seem to specialize a bit in guitar-banjos. They had a huge Yosco GB that was pretty impressive!

There was a woman at the Allfrets convention last year with a Silver Bell GB, and it was amazing sounding (of course).

Good luck with your quest!

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 08/27/2014:  05:07:24

Skip & Others,

It´s my impression, that finger-picking players are normally using a standard guitar tuning for their GB´s - whereas some flat-picking players using their GB´s mostly for jazz accompaniments are using a re-entrant guitar tuning - with the 5th and 6th string tuned one octave higher than usual.

Polle

esmic - Posted - 08/27/2014:  06:16:59

Polle & Skip

Is this the sort of thing you are wondering about? Pic is from a recent classic banjo rally, of our superb, multi-talented (piano and guitar/cello banjo) accompanist. This is a Bacon, not B&D, but these thundering ladies are so rare, why be picky? Love the six finger Oettinger tailpiece.

esmic - Posted - 08/27/2014:  06:45:30

Pic is here :

haildixon - Posted - 08/27/2014:  07:30:21

I've got a B&D SBGB. It's a monster rhythm machine - at least that's what I use it for, when I use it. I've had some friends use it for manuche and they say it's great for that, too. The neck is short and wide and feels like the business end of a baseball bat. Once you get used to the neck it's a pleasure to play.

Strings I use are .30, .24, .30, .24, .15, .11 - I tunes the low E and A up an octave. Really brightens up the sound and punches through the band.

I can try and answer whatever ?s you have.

Leslie R - Posted - 08/27/2014:  08:52:15

I have developed an interest in 6 string banjos. I am always looking at the big name stores and eBay for a 6 string or a banjo that I could a 6 string neck on.  I have purchased a few, but the banjo I really want is a Weyman. I tune and play one like a bluegrass banjo, except I add a hhigh G on the 1st string. This has worked well for me. I am thinking of getting a Weymann style 2, and having a 6 string neck installed.

CEParagon124 - Posted - 08/27/2014:  11:14:49

Just FYI, there is a Gibson 6 string neck on Ebay, but it isn't cheap.

Charlie Noyes

Leslie R - Posted - 08/27/2014:  12:55:14

A 1926 GB3, everyday low price of $6500.  I sent him a very kindly, diplomatic message in reference to market demand, but he did not seem to share the same opinion. Maybe after its been sitting there about 4 years, he might budge a little. 

haildixon - Posted - 08/27/2014:  16:19:41

Yeah, the price on that GB3 is crazy. At least, it seems crazy to me. I see used high-end Deering Maple Blossoms - which are essentially the same thing - go for as low as $1200... Just mostly because people tend to buy these GBs, play them for a few months and then realize it really isn't what they were thinking it might be. I was damn near obsessed with getting a Gibson GB3 a few years ago and had resolved to just build my own because I thought a Mastertone pot was what I was after. As it happened, I was getting ready to plop about 4K down on a GB3 from Gruhn when I got a reasonable deal on the Silver Bell GB. When I got the SBGB it was an unplayable mess... No knot tailpiece, sloppy skin head, busted mute and bridge, stuck tuners. I talked to Vinnie Mondello who coached me into swapping the head, adding a Gold Tone tailpiece, I had Jim Farquhar build me a couple beautiful 6-string bridges, I fixed the mute, and I worked the tuners until they almost worked halfway decent. The tuners are all that's left that I really would probably prefer to change out sooner or later but beyond that it's a beast with a neck that's solid as a rock.

Anyway, I've played the Gold Tone 750 and it's a fine sounding GB with a Mastertone-style pot. I traded it in on a BT2000 which really sounds great. I string it using a Nashville High-Strung set of strings and it really makes it sparkle. I just use it for around the house pickin and folk-type stuff. The Silver Bell I only used with our Traditional Jazz group. I busked with it, a lot. It's great for that because it's loud as god. It's also, unfortunately, nearly as heavy. I liked the sound of it with a small group and no drummer - it really fills out the sound. With a full band, drummer and piano, however, I prefer the tenor. My back always prefers the tenor. ;)

BTW - there's a NECK ONLY listing on eBay right now, which might be what Charles was talking about. It's at 1K. Somewhere, some 5-stringer has his Pre-War Mastertone with replacement neck.

pgroff - Posted - 08/27/2014:  16:57:51

quote:

---

Originally posted by esmic

Pic is here :

 

---

Very interesting -- did that player convert the nut from a more typical GB with 6 courses of single strings?

PG

esmic - Posted - 08/27/2014:  18:11:38

Paul

It is being used as a cello banjo, which normally has 4 strings, CGBD, an octave lower than a regular classic banjo. Here, the two higher pitched strings are doubled, giving fuller tone. Never asked the owner, but I always assumed the nut is a replacement, notched to suit.

Edited by - esmic on 08/27/2014 18:13:32

pgroff - Posted - 08/27/2014:  19:00:06

Hi esmic,

Yes, I figured that was the set-up but I was curious whether it had been converted by the current owner, or converted earlier (or possibly even original).  Maybe some history has come down with it, if it isn't a recent conversion to 4 courses (2 doubled).

Thanks!

PG

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 08/28/2014:  01:19:52

Skip,

For your consideration - LOL! - 4stringbanjos.com/BBQ/DALE%20S...SALE.html

Polle

pgroff - Posted - 08/28/2014:  08:19:57

Hi Polle,

I've seen that ad.  It will be out of my price range at present, so I didn't want to pester the seller.  But I'd be very interested to know the head size and scale length.

PG

Leslie R - Posted - 08/28/2014:  11:50:13

I sent an inquiry about that banjo, about 2 weeks ago, and never got a response.

skip sail - Posted - 08/28/2014:  14:03:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by esmic

Pic is here :

 

---

Thats amazing,I have to get one now, without question.

Thanks Shawn

i have played a lot of GB's, doing blind Blake/ Papa Charlie Jackson kind of fingerpicking,and the only one I enjoyed was my 1920 GB 4,with the 14 inch head.

Will definately begin the hunt for one of these larger Bacon GB's , once ive sold a few things!

Edited by - skip sail on 08/28/2014 14:07:27

thefolkshop - Posted - 08/29/2014:  17:34:54

Here's a Bacon GB that may interest some on this thread:

skip sail - Posted - 08/29/2014:  19:19:39

nice, what sort of tone ring?

jwold - Posted - 08/29/2014:  19:27:07

That looks like some thick inlay that's missing on the 1st fret! Cool GB though.

pgroff - Posted - 08/30/2014:  08:18:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by thefolkshop

Here's a Bacon GB that may interest some on this thread:

---

Can you share the scale length and pot size of that one?

Thanks!

PG

thefolkshop - Posted - 09/02/2014:  10:52:14

Yep, that's a little quarter moon missing off the first fret and it IS thick. The scale length is 23 5/8; the head is 11 1/2. Here's a picture of the 'innards'.

pgroff - Posted - 09/02/2014:  14:17:28

Thanks!  It's interesting to me that most (all?) of the common modern models of guitar banjo have much longer scale lengths.  Probably trying to get the best tone from the lower-pitched strings.  Part of my interest in getting a Bacon GB is that shorter scale length, because I want one for flatpicking tunes, rather than playing chords.

Sent you a PM.

PG

CS Memphis - Posted - 09/12/2014:  10:16:59

quote:

---

Originally posted by pgroff

Hi Polle,

I've seen that ad.  It will be out of my price range at present, so I didn't want to pester the seller.  But I'd be very interested to know the head size and scale length.

 

PG

---

I'm pretty sure it's an 11" head with around 25.5" scale.  I had this Dale Small, Silver Bell-style guitar banjo in my possession for about a week about this time last year, when I took it to the Banjo Collector's Gathering in Knoxville as a favor to the seller.  The banjo did not sell, but I did have the satisfaction of playing it on stage at the Laurel Theater in a small banjo orchestra consisting of Greg Adams (first banjo, 5-string classic), Bob Winans (second banjo, 5-string classic), Eli Kaufman (second banjo, 5-string classic), Marc Smith (SS Stewart cello banjo) and myself on this guitar banjo.  If memory serves, we played St. Louis Tickle and A Footlight Favorite, and this was broadcast on the radio, so you could probably track down a recording if you wanted to give it a listen.

At any rate, this is an amazing and responsive instrument, easily the best sounding and playing guitar banjo that I have ever had the privilege to perform with.  I have tried several times to convince the seller to just give it to me, as he has plenty of banjos, without luck.  Vinnie Mondello is handling the sale, and whoever winds up with this will own a piece of history as well as a fine, heirloom quality banjo.

CS Memphis - Posted - 09/12/2014:  10:35:09

Here's a photo of the group referenced above at the Laurel Theater in Knoxville.  That's me with the Dale Small guitar banjo at far right, and Greg Adams in front playing first banjo.  Back row is Marc Smith (cello banjo, an original SS Stewart), Eli Kaufman and Bob Winans.

trapdoor2 - Posted - 09/12/2014:  10:49:49

LOL, I look like a bullfrog in that photo.

That Dale Small GB sounded awesome...helps to have a great player too.

pgroff - Posted - 09/12/2014:  13:10:19

Thanks, Christian and Marc

PG

skip sail - Posted - 09/12/2014:  14:51:02

quote:

---

Originally posted by trapdoor2

LOL, I look like a bullfrog in that photo.

That Dale Small GB sounded awesome...helps to have a great player too.

---

nah,more like one of those unsmiley guys who stand at the front door of nightclubs.

BTW, i dont think the seller is very motivated to move the dale small on,i tried contacting him a couple of times to no avail.

Edited by - skip sail on 09/12/2014 14:52:08

Leslie R - Posted - 09/12/2014:  16:42:27

Same here. If he doesn't want to sell it I would not put it out there.