Ukeridge - Posted - 03/07/2013:  08:44:22

So, when I'm not playing banjo or raising my kids I'm a science journalist. I've managed to convince my editors at an engineering website I write for to let me write about the connection between playing banjo and engineering. 

I've noticed that a surprisingly large percentage of the banjo players I've read about have some tie to engineering (and related fields). Off the top of my head I remember only that Lamar Grier worked for IBM, that Ben Eldridge is a mathematician for the Navy, that Noam Pikelny went to school, briefly, to study engineering. 

If anyone can think of any other examples, I'd love to hear of them (and a way to get in touch with players, if you know). Also, if you're a pro, or at least of a high level of musicianship, and also an engineer, it would great if you would get in touch with me. And I wouldn't mind reading anyone else's hypotheses or pontifications on the preponderance of banjoist engineers. I've got my own, theory, of course.  

Thanks all!

tjolson81 - Posted - 03/07/2013:  08:48:16

A little off topic but Doc Watson said a few times he loved engineering and would have liked to be an electrical engineer.

music.yahoo.com/blogs/our-coun...2234.html

Good luck, looking forward to reading your article.

ITACUD - Posted - 03/07/2013:  09:07:36

A banjo is a machine that can be tweaked and torqued and taken apart..... That might be one contributor

sundance kid - Posted - 03/07/2013:  09:15:01

Woody Paul of Riders In the Sky, who plays fiddle not banjo, has a PhD in Nuclear Engineering from MIT.  His father played the banjo, and he took up the fiddle so he could play duets with his father.

nationalfiddlerhalloffame.org/...lbio.html

O.D. - Posted - 03/07/2013:  09:36:03

   I would look up Bill Keith. I think he has a back ground in engineering or related  profession.

 he's pretty technical in his approach to banjo and banjo related items . As in Keith tuners.

 Good Luck

 O.D.

tjolson81 - Posted - 03/07/2013:  09:42:13

Though of another one although not engineering.  Greg Liszt of Deadly Gentlemen has a PHd in Bio from MIT. 

deadlygentlemen.com/?page_id=128

The Pope - Posted - 03/07/2013:  09:53:44

Altho not really a true professional, I have played banjo for over 45 years & have a degree in electronics engineering. Playing banjo contributed to my low GPA in college! 

MOUNTAIN GOAT - Posted - 03/07/2013:  09:54:19

I am new at banjo picking but a long time mechanical and aero engineer. Just engineered a new rim that I had Dick Guggenheim make. I made the tunneled fifth neck and Dick put them together.
This was an experiment on several fronts. Dick thought it came out sounding great. I will have it in a week or so. There is a lot going on with this noise maker. And I think a lot that can be improved upon.
I was just discussing this morning how to make a better tail piece. My experiment was. Wood rim with integral wood tone ring and integral wood flange with specific grain orientation. A tunneled fifth neck with no truss rod. Neck bow was pre set. And a wood tail piece that won't touch the tension hoop or head flange. And I don't mean the flange for the hooks. The fewer the parts, the better this should sound, since you can't make the parts fit perfect and they move with temperature, pressure and humidity.

pdbanjo - Posted - 03/07/2013:  10:13:25

I 'm a retired civil engineer after 30+ yrs. in the field of bridge, highway and drainage design. I can make water go down hill with the best of the best but still have problems playing  FMB and Train 45 on the confounded banjo. Go figure!!

trapdoor2 - Posted - 03/07/2013:  10:28:58

My degree is in Business Mgmt. but I've worked as an engineer in various capacities since the mid 1980's. Currently titled "Sr. Engineer"...which only means I'm the last FOF (Fat Ol' F*rt) left who can read blueprints.

As has been said, the banjo is more machine than virtually any other musical instrument. My theory is that banjos give off a pheromone which activates the geek portion of an engineers hypothalamus. Many report that the smell of calfskin reminds them of the parchment patents were/are printed on. Others claim the banjo pheromone is similar to the one which activates the "I can fix/improve this guy" reaction in women. 

Turnabout945 - Posted - 03/07/2013:  10:43:08

I'm not an engineer, but I'll be starting college this fall and am planning on majoring in mechanical engineering.

Edited by - Turnabout945 on 03/07/2013 10:43:30

Grey Dog - Posted - 03/07/2013:  11:28:34

Computer and Digital Systems Engineer, here: I fell in love with the right hand patterns.

Patterns = Algorithms = Logic

MJ1619 - Posted - 03/07/2013:  11:46:36

Experimental condensed matter physics, with a decided applications bent. All that really means is I love designing, building, and tweaking systems to get the most out of them and find out why they tick.

I've noticed a generally high correlation between musicianship or at least a high-level interest in music and physics/engineering, as well. Many of my colleagues and friends in the field are also musicians on various instruments; the banjo and electric guitar, in particular. Perhaps it is the high degree of customizability and adjustment that can be made with these instruments in order to achieve a unique or at least distinct sound that attracts people of a similar mindset. We're tinkerers in the hunt for the sound we hear in our head.

Just my two cents...

Edited by - MJ1619 on 03/07/2013 11:47:51

nakigreengrass - Posted - 03/07/2013:  12:29:13

I've worked in mechanical engineering 40+ years, started as a machinist. Last 20 been working in the oil industry. Design, build and repair equipment.  Have found a good use for our cnc lathes, making tonerings and resonator guitar cone spinning forms.  Once machined a bit of heavy wall 4340 tube into about 6 rings and made them all slightly different sizes so I could measure the sound. One I  machined with the center nonconcentric to test the tone. My interest in sound has been quite helpful in the battle against vibration and resonance.  I agree with others, If you have a mechanical aptitude and a musical ambition, banjos are going to be attractive.

banjered - Posted - 03/07/2013:  13:09:15

Uh, I like to play Engine 143 a lot. I also changed a light bulb last week. Do I qualify? (grin) Banjered

The Old Timer - Posted - 03/07/2013:  15:26:03

Let's be careful not to overdo this and conclude that because there are engineers who play banjo, that banjo players are engineers.



Banjo players probably come from all across the spectrum.

I have a good friend who's not an engineer, but he plays one on the banjo -- Casey Jones.

Edited by - The Old Timer on 03/07/2013 15:27:49

banjo1971 - Posted - 03/07/2013:  16:56:42

I went to school to be an electrical engineer.  Today I run a small recording studio, simple but it works.

mike gregory - Posted - 03/07/2013:  20:08:52

Roger Siminoff wrote a bunch of mind-numbingly thorough engineering articles for either FRETS or BANJO NEWSLETTER.

I just cobble crap together, and, by gum, it comes out sounding like a banjo.

But I admire Roger's ability to not just wonder why stuff works the way it does, but to design some really interesting ways to try find out why it does.

Edited by - mike gregory on 03/07/2013 20:09:35

chrisward5 - Posted - 03/07/2013:  20:28:14

I do drivability and electrical work on BMW and Merecedes Benz vehicles. I consider that to be "Reverse Engineering" at times. These days, taking a banjo apart has become as much fun as playing one.

Prof - Posted - 03/07/2013:  20:51:12

Ok, looks like the responses have gone the way of the (for the most part) non-professional players.....so count me in! Industrial engineer specializing in human factors and ergonomics. The banjo has helped me explore the area of cumulative trauma disorders in a much-too-personal way -- I'm on my second round of elbow tendinitis.

5stringJim - Posted - 03/07/2013:  20:56:46

Well, I wasn't an engineer when I took up banjo, but I've worked as a semiconductor equipment engineer  since leaving school. I'd like to have gone down the architect route, but was persuaded by a careers advisor that electronics was the future.

MBCrawford - Posted - 03/08/2013:  03:45:04

I have my electrical engineering and electronic engineering degrees and I have been trying to playing the banjo sense the early 70's. I have not done a lot with my education towards the banjo, just about all has been in machine automation and controls, like robots and building machines to produce products, and that includes doing both the mechanical and electrical aspects of the machine. Someday I would like to build myself a nice recording studio that I could use, maybe someday...................

rgoad - Posted - 03/08/2013:  04:56:50

I think it is the link between music and mathematics that attracts some people.  The physics of sound is interesting, too.  There is a synthesia link that brings some people deeper into the desire to play that has a strong meaning for people inclined towards math and physics.

bilge rat - Posted - 03/08/2013:  11:32:47

My degree is in Information Technology and I am a RCDD. Currently employeed as a Network Engineer designing voice/data systems for a large corporation.

All that translates into I still suk at banjo! (but I understand why I suk:)

ron

nathans - Posted - 03/08/2013:  12:19:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Pope

Altho not really a true professional, I have played banjo for over 45 years & have a degree in electronics engineering. Playing banjo contributed to my low GPA in college! 

---

It may also have contributed to your skills in mathematics.

robbif - Posted - 03/08/2013:  17:23:00

He may not be an official "engineer", but don't forget Bill Keith and his Keith Tuners design... beaconbanjo.com/

OldInTheNewWay - Posted - 03/08/2013:  18:25:13

My degrees are in Psychology and Counseling.

But my highest standardized test scores were by far my math ones.

Fishrrman - Posted - 03/08/2013:  19:11:24

I was an "engineer" of sorts for 32 years, but of the railroadin' kind…

No college degree for that work, pretty much watch and learn from those who went before.

Big engines, small ones, electric, diesel, freight, commuter, Amtrak...

bhrb75 - Posted - 03/09/2013:  04:06:17

I am a licensed Proffessional Engineer in NC.

5drive - Posted - 03/09/2013:  04:50:30

Actually,Bill is an expert machinist,and Brandon,you............!!    Ha!  Jim

Edited by - 5drive on 03/09/2013 04:51:05

wbelm - Posted - 03/09/2013:  06:46:05

I suspect Steve Huber may be an engineer. You can google Huber Banjos.

The term engineer is thrown around a lot......sometimes to elevate and sometimes to conveniently explain. For the purpose of this article, you may want to include "engineering related" disciplines. From scanning this thread, it appears Brandon is the only full-fleged, as in licensed professional engineer, that has surfaced. I am sure more are out there.

bhrb75 - Posted - 03/09/2013:  08:01:55

I stated out in my career just wanting to drive the damn train, and all I got out of it was this little rubber stamp with my name and a five digit number on it... lol

Such a challenging and very rewarding field. Even though the stress level is very high with what I do, I couldn't imagine doing anything else.

I'm not sure Steve has a PE or not. He's definitely a good engineer whether he has one or not. He's a fart smeller....I mean, a smart feller. lol

Brandon

jfb - Posted - 03/09/2013:  08:19:34

Brandon,

Does this mean you can now speel banjer??  Just kidding..

BTW, HVAC engineers have kept me gainfully employed for 45 years or so..figuring out to make their design mistakes function..

bhrb75 - Posted - 03/09/2013:  09:19:15

John I'm not remembur'n takin - spellun klass in skool. Lol

DannyB4 - Posted - 03/09/2013:  18:52:26

...for what it's worth, I'm and Engineering Tech at a major hospital in NC.......since the banjo has a lot of threads, it's a natural for someone who enjoys mechanics....just my humble opinion...

banjomule - Posted - 03/10/2013:  05:23:44

I would touch base with Geoff Stelling. I dont remember what he was doing in the Navy, but if I remember the story right that is where he got his idea for the wedge-fit tone ring.

steve davis - Posted - 03/10/2013:  05:28:29

I went to a 2 year votech for automotive technology.
Appropos because banjos have been made from torque converters and Buick brake drums.

Joe Jakonczuk - Posted - 03/10/2013:  07:55:40

When I started messing with a banjo in the late 70s I couldn't leave it alone. I would keep thinking up things to modify. I even made a bridge out of aluminum that weighed about 10 grains. I still have it and it sounds awful. Years after retiring as a Senior Research Engineer I rekindled my interest and designed several things used to set up a banjo. I  designed my own rim that lowers the bass response about 5-15 Hz. I was also granted a patent on a head tensioning system Patent No. 7,439,431. Now, I just try to play the thing and have remained a lifetime intermediate player. The banjo is half instrument and half machine so it's just great to tinker with. It will certainly give a technically minded person a lot to thing about. Remember to have fun.

Ukeridge - Posted - 03/10/2013:  08:38:18

Thank you everyone for the excellent responses so far. You've actually changed my mind a bit. Although I was sure that technical-minded players would be attracted to the machine like aspects of the banjo, I thought the musical problem-solving aspects would have more to do with it.

As is obvious to everyone here, the banjo is not a straightforward instrument like, say, the saxophone or the piano. In Scruggs style or clawhammer melodies are worked into (or adjusted to fit) an arpeggiated sound.  Even melodic style, which allows notes to be played where they oughta, as it were, involves a great deal of searching for fretboard efficiency. Was this never part of the attraction or at least a kind of thinking that you were used to engaging in?

Similarly, was there nothing in the inevitable first exposure to Earl that linked the two kinds of thinking? The impeccable  timing, the intricacy of the playing?

Also, for those that speak of the endless attempts to improve the instrument: Was that thought that you could get your hands dirty tinkering with it part of what made you pick it up in the first place? It clearly has many more parts than other instruments. Was that obvious and attractive?

Thank again for all the great responses.

MOUNTAIN GOAT - Posted - 03/10/2013:  09:13:04

I started tinkering with my banjo as soon as I got it. It was not set up. Fretting notes was difficult from the start. SO I called the manufacturer to talk about string spacing and height. I made numerous nuts until I found the dimensions that made learning the instrument much easier. It went from there, to now I have designed many new aspects and built a new banjo. I should have it all together today or tomorrow. SO I have a tunneled fifth neck with no truss rod. The pip eliminates the fifth fret for the fifth string. Arched neck to eliminate the truss rod. Wood rim, tone ring and flange with specific grain orientation. Different resonator attach. Different arm rest and attach. Compensated bridge from maple and purple heart. Will be trying a new design of tail piece after I try all this.

nakigreengrass - Posted - 03/10/2013:  12:52:25

You seem to be looking for a link between technical aptitude and musical ability.  I have never noticed any.  I think I could be a typical case of the engineer to banjo link.  Like Joe, I've been a life long "intermediate" player.  That can cause some frustration.  However, the banjo allows a technically minded person to improve there music, by other means, by tinkering.  That can compensate somewhat, and helps you achieve your musical goals with a limited amount of "god given" ability. You may well find that tech minded people are less inclined to be top banjo players.

Edited by - nakigreengrass on 03/10/2013 13:14:08

steve davis - Posted - 03/10/2013:  13:56:25

Jimmy Cox came from a jet engine background and designs and builds his own tools for the job such as a resonator peeler.
His designs of flanges,tonerings,palm pedals/stretchers and tailpiece (and a bunch of other stuff,I'm sure) along with being a fine player tells me he's got the whole package.

Engineer,designer,builder and player.

Ukeridge - Posted - 03/10/2013:  15:03:24

quote:

---

Originally posted by nakigreengrass

You seem to be looking for a link between technical aptitude and musical ability.  I have never noticed any.  I think I could be a typical case of the engineer to banjo link.  Like Joe, I've been a life long "intermediate" player.  That can cause some frustration.  However, the banjo allows a technically minded person to improve there music, by other means, by tinkering.  That can compensate somewhat, and helps you achieve your musical goals with a limited amount of "god given" ability. You may well find that tech minded people are less inclined to be top banjo players.

---

I think it's worth saying that I'm NOT looking for a link between technical aptitude and musical ability (unless there is one, of course). What I thought I was looking for was a love of certain kind of problem-solving that connected the musical aspects of the instrument with the profession. Now I think it's more transparent than that. Just a love of machines that can be manipulated. More examples in any direction are appreciated.   

Ron C - Posted - 03/10/2013:  15:41:54

I am an environmental engineer, a professor in a Civil and Environmental Engineering department at an engineering and technology university, and a member of the American Society of Civil Engineers as well as other engineering organizations. All of that out of the way, I can say that I was a music major when I started college. There does seem to be some correlation between people with a mathematical bent and music, and I have known some university professors of music who were physicists at one time in their careers.

Honestly though, I was a music major not because of my proficiency with math and physics, but because I loved music, and was rebelling against my parents who wanted me to go to medical school and my uncles who were physicists and engineers.

I play banjo because I enjoy it and would prefer to play it more than fiddle (banjo) with it. When I wanted to get my mechanical jollies, I didn't adjust and diddle with my banjo, but I worked in the paddock of an amateur, expert motorcycle racer adjusting his carburetors. Of course that was when there were carburetors.

So, even though I just love doing quantitative type problem solving as a career, I play the banjo simply because I like playing the banjo. The banjo gets me away for a while from equations and designs.

Ron

Mopick - Posted - 03/11/2013:  05:22:36

I got my degree in Electrical Engineering and Physics in 1983.  I've been working with engineers and technicians since.  I've had a lot of friends and co-workers over the years that play music.  

frank shaw - Posted - 03/11/2013:  19:03:35

I have a degree in manufacturing engineering - been playing banjo for 20+ years.  I agree with the notions that it's the math and the tinkering that attracted me.

Frank 

engineer43 - Posted - 03/11/2013:  20:34:40

Patience. That's the connection. An engineer starting a new project researches for hours to find out how it's been done, and what hasn't been tried yet. People with a low tolerance for tedium don't want to do that, or try to learn to play a banjo.

I still over-research projects (an hour to see what banjo strings are available on ebay), but shortcut the banjo by playing (folk-picking) a cheap tenor banjo tuned to open G. Friends and grandkids can learn how to play it in 5 minutes. That meets my goal of time efficiency.

But when I buy another old banjo, I stay up all night adjusting it, fabricating shims, etc. Who else would think that's fun?

Don C., semi-retired engineer

nakigreengrass - Posted - 03/11/2013:  23:06:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by engineer43

Patience. That's the connection. An engineer starting a new project researches for hours to find out how it's been done, and what hasn't been tried yet. People with a low tolerance for tedium don't want to do that, or try to learn to play a banjo.



I still over-research projects (an hour to see what banjo strings are available on ebay), but shortcut the banjo by playing (folk-picking) a cheap tenor banjo tuned to open G. Friends and grandkids can learn how to play it in 5 minutes. That meets my goal of time efficiency.



But when I buy another old banjo, I stay up all night adjusting it, fabricating shims, etc. Who else would think that's fun?



Don C., semi-retired engineer

---

 Patience and research compulsion, yes, But, for me, only for what holds my interest.

Tom Smith - Posted - 03/12/2013:  01:55:18

Aerospace engineering test technician. (but I also played music when I was a newspaper pressman, film processor, and cab driver).