captbanjo - Posted - 12/13/2012:  06:15:48

Anyone here ever tried a Fults tailpiece for an Irish tenor banjo or four string banjo? Just curious...

Wayne

DanielT - Posted - 12/13/2012:  08:42:13

I have one (a Cumberland), and I love it.  As you might imagine, it's really, really stable and I think it does a good job of transferring power through the bridge.  It's on the banjo I used on this track here (which isn't trad, but it's well recorded and gives a good sense of tone) and this track here (which is trad).

captbanjo - Posted - 12/13/2012:  09:13:10

Both interesting and good. Are you a member of the Jolly Boys?

Wayne

DanielT - Posted - 12/13/2012:  09:30:36

quote:

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Originally posted by captbanjo

Both interesting and good. Are you a member of the Jolly Boys?

Wayne

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Thanks!  And no, I was just brought in for that record by the producers to play banjo and be music director.  I wrote my dissertation on mento and had some specialized knowledge they wanted me to bring to bear on things.  Great group of people, and I couldn't be happier for their success!

captbanjo - Posted - 12/13/2012:  09:42:21

I actually have a gold plated Fults Blueridge with the XYZ mount heading to my home as we speak but it's for my five string. I plan to test drive it and if it provides a noticeable improvement in tone, I might consider getting one for my Deering Calico four string.

Wayne

DanielT - Posted - 12/13/2012:  10:03:48

Great!  I was very impressed with the Fults TPs, let us know what you think when you have the Blueridge mounted.

mikeyes - Posted - 12/13/2012:  14:36:26

Wayne,

I have two banjos with Fults tailpieces on them and I think you will find that they are terrific on an Irish tenor banjo tuned GDAE.. One of them is a purpose made tenor banjo tailpiece and the other a Cumberland like Daniel has. I've shown this tailpiece to several Irish professionals who then asked about availability. I think you are making a very good choice especially since the Fults has a capability of changing the sound of your banjo with the various screws that you can add.

Mike Keyes

DanielT - Posted - 12/13/2012:  18:36:31

Mike, if you don't mind me asking – what kind of banjos do you have your Fults on?  I believe Bob made you the prototype, right?

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 12/14/2012:  03:58:41

Wayne,

A little off-topic - if I ever get a top-quality tenor without an Oettinger tailpiece in my hands - I´ll at once put on an ABM Tensionator:

4-finger TP´s like these two brands - with the most suited length of the fingers (41 mm from the inside of the hoop) - are IMHO a must for an optimal set-up of a tenor.

Only - I do wish, that someone in the future will start manufacturing a somewhat similar TP with adjustable finger lengths - or fixed lenghts different for each string - somewhat like this TP by master luthier Norbert Pietsch:

Polle

captbanjo - Posted - 12/14/2012:  06:05:33

Thanks. Not off-topic at all!

Wayne

mikeyes - Posted - 12/14/2012:  07:33:55

Both of my Fults tailpieces are on gibsoniod banjos: one has a Cox rim and FQMS parts with a GT neck and the other a similar pot with a TB-00 neck.



Bob did not make the tenor tailpiece for me, but I called him looking to see if he had one and he had just finished it as an experiment. Here is a video of that banjo: youtube.com/watch?v=qvJU6_gj84g You can see that it is different from his standard tailpieces. I think it will accommodate five strings but he told me he was particularly interested in tenor banjo (not ITM, by the way) when he built it. It will take guitar strings and loop end strings so my choices of strings are wide.



Mike

Edited by - mikeyes on 12/14/2012 07:35:23

DanielT - Posted - 12/14/2012:  23:26:41

Mike, mine has the "001" serial number, so I think mine might have been the first "production" one; IIRC, you had told me (here on BHO) a few years ago that he had made you the protype.  At any rate, I seem to remember him taking some time not only making the TP, but making it a point to ensure the string spacing was proper to tenors.

Polle, I've tried out both a tensionator and an Oettinger TP on the banjo I eventually put the Fults on, and I just really prefer the Fults on this one by a large margin.  I feel like the stability of the mount puts more of the instrument's tone on the bridge and rim (an archtop woody) and aids sustain.  Further, it seems to transfer vibration to the strings more efficiently and generates nice power. (More than I was able to get from either of the fingered TPs off the same banjo, at any rate.)  I wouldn't say mine is the loudest banjo ever, but it's pretty loud – plenty loud for sessions, anyway.   I have another tenor, a tubaphone outfitted with an Oettinger, and seems to do just fine with it.  I don't really think a fingered TP is a "must" for an optimal set up on every banjo, rather it depends on the instrument. 

BTW, the staggered finger TPs Pietsch seems to use probably have a whole lot to do with how he's crafting the sound of his banjos; I doubt they're a one-size-fits-all solution to tone.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 12/15/2012:  01:02:17

Daniel,

No rules without exceptions - I make many of these myself.  Do have in mind, that I´m setting up 75-100 top-banjos per year - not all can be "treated" in the same way.

The finger length as mentioned fits most standard scale tenors and many plectrums - but I would really like to have a more flexible TP at hand - with individual adjustment of the down forces - but also with adjustable length of the fingers. I´ve seen a picture once of a custom built TP like this. As an alternative - a DIY kit with a selection of fingers with different lengths.

And I would like it to have a more stable mount as mentioned by you.

Pietsch makes his own TP´s - hardly two of these are identical - I don´t have the possibility doing the same - that´s why I wish for a strong, sturdy TP with an optimal flexibility.

Polle

BDCA - Posted - 12/19/2012:  17:56:04

Polle: What determines the length of the arms on the tenor? Would they be different for Irish tuning?

I have the German Oetinger style  tailpieces on two of my tenors and they are Magic. Tom Cussen uses the same tailpiece on every high end Clareen tenor.

Cya!

Bob

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 12/22/2012:  01:10:46

Bob,



"What determines the length of the arms on the tenor?"

First of all and generally - the position of the bridge. On 19-fret 23" scale 11" pot tenors this is the same for all brands - but for other number of frets, scales and pot sizes this will differ. Normally with the bridge sitting closer to the mid of the head - thus longer away from the TP.

The optimal average finger length will have to be determined on basis of the bridge position and the sound wanted.

Next - normally the wound strings will benefit from a longer distance between the bridge and the tip of the TP - compared with the plain strings. Combined with f.ex. a lesser down force on the bridge this will give a richer sound in the mid and bass range plus a longer sustain. Hence the two different finger lengths on the Pietsch TP for a CGDA tenor as shown above. 



 

"Would they be different for Irish tuning?"

Yes - in principle - especially if you use three wound strings and only one plain.

That´s why, I personally would like to have a very flexible TP at hand - to be used on any type of 4-string banjos and for all possible tunings - with individual (adjustable?) finger lengths and individual adjustment of down force for each finger.

Rocket science maybe for many players - but very handy/suited for a set-up wizard dealing with many different banjos (and players).

Polle

PS!

Here´s my fantastic Ibanez George Benson jazz guitar - with a split TP - each part with an individual length and an individual adjustment of the down force. Very handy for adjustment of the sound - only - I would have loved it to have 6 individual parts. LOL!

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 12/22/2012 01:27:05