Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 12/10/2012:  12:01:56

Hi ITM players,

This afternoon/evening an "Irish" buddy of mine came by for a long visit/talk/playing/investigation/planning etc. - in the company of his two darlings - an almost mint Clareen Elite Gold and a mint Clifford Essex Paragon. He has just now left my House of Banjos - sadly still in the company of his darlings.

Now is the time stop drooling, guys! 

I´ve in the past set up several Clareen Elite´s - but this Paragon was the first for me to hold, inspect and play - I guess, that it´s the one-and-only example here in DK. Too expensive for most ITM players.

If things go as planned, the Clareen will return early next year for a reconditioning and a fresh set-up by yours truly - in order to be sold. The owner and his Paragon will at the same time come here a whole day for some experiments and tests of various set-up´s. In order optimizing the banjo to the best possible performance.

If any of you guys own and play either a Clareen Elite or a Paragon - I´ll welcome any infos about your favorite set-up. Hence my thread/posting. I´m not an ITM player myself - however I´m considered a set-up wizard by the local ITM players also - but I would like to know about the preferences of other players/owners.

BTW - we put up this evening a comparison of the Clareen, the Paragon and one of my "last version" B&D Silver Bell´s. More about this later. I´ll at first hand want to perform some of my tricks at my buddy´s banjos and afterwards perform a new comparison.

Polle

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 12/11/2012 02:40:07

N3AL - Posted - 12/10/2012:  12:21:26

I just did a whole site search & didn't find it, so I have to ask: What is ITM? Please excuse my ignorance as a newcomer here.

UncleClawhammer - Posted - 12/10/2012:  12:23:37

Irish Traditional Music

N3AL - Posted - 12/10/2012:  12:25:29

Thanks!

mikeyes - Posted - 12/11/2012:  11:56:20

Polle,

I don't think that there are any special tricks to setup of either of these instruments, but I might add that they are not instruments I see very often. The Clareen Elites are usually setup by Tom Cussen to have a treble sound but that often depends on the player. Someone like Enda Scahill will want lighter strings to accomodate a ADAE tuning (although he playes a Setanta now) and the usual string gauges that I have seen on both instruments are in the 38-12 range.

The Paragons are similar to an Epi Recording in many respects but also have some other Lange like features. Your experience with Paramounts and Epis should give you a good clue as to setup and I am sure that your ear will find the right way to make that instrument sound great.

There are very few good setup people in Europe to begin with and even fewer for ITM as far as I can tell. Compared to Americans, whose first impulse is to take everything apart, Irish musicians seem to have little interest in setup (the Howley brothers are an exception to this rule) so you are probably going to be an expert in these two banjos after you are finished.

Every Paragon I have played sounded good in spite of the setup :grin: so I think you will find that banjo will have a lot of potential for setup. Clareens tend to be a little less versatile but are still good banjos. Setup on those should become obvious with a little tweaking.

Let us know how you do, I am very interested in your results.

Mike Keyes

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 12/12/2012:  00:52:41

Mike,

Great reply - thanks very much.

I agree regarding the Paragon - in spite, that the present strings are somewhat old, I could immediately sense, that it will be easy setting it up to a great sound.

The Clareen is more difficult - I do know this from other set-up´s also. I think, that I´ll go for a more bright sound - as mentioned by you. The bass tends to get muddy.

Both banjos are indeed very heavy - this means, that they with their present 13-40 strings do respond very poorly with heavy picks. I got the best sound with a Dunlop 0.60. A pick that light does however limit the dynamics and power of the banjos very much - when performing new set-up´s I´ll go for an optimal performance using a 0.73 pick.

Light weight banjos like B&D, Vega and Paramount are IMHO not limited (critical) in the same way - I´ve in the past set up many - with strings from 12-36 to 14-42 and with pick gauges from 0.60 to 1.00 - with great results every time.

BTW - here´s a clip of mine - with late Barney testing the tuning of his 17-fret Dave Boyle at a concert last year. IMO the sound of the G-string is somewhat different from the rest - what do you think? It´s my general experience, that the G-string is very problematic on short scale tenors. Being a jazz man first of all I want an overall sound equality - both across and along the fretboard.

youtube.com/watch?v=7fOXE9dgkb...=youtu.be

Regards

Polle

mikeyes - Posted - 12/12/2012:  10:15:23

Polle,

In general, short scale banjos tuned Irish style have a problem with the G string and sometimes you just have to live with it, especially since the G string is not used that often by many players. One solution is to find the best G string sound and then setup the other three strings the best they can be setup. This means you might not have the balance you like for jazz, but on the other hand when the G string is used (usually for one or two notes in a tune or as an ornamental/chord) it won't sound horrible.

As for the .73 picks, Gerry O'Connor has been slowly gravitating towards them as he thinks the sound is better and he is able to change his technique to accomodate them. I like the Dunlops but not the Brain in that size even though they are supposed to be the same thing. On the other hand, most of the banjo players i know don't use the full capabilities of the the banjo simply because they don't think about it or the style they use will not let them do it. You have to realize that the vast majority of ITM banjo players are session players and the subtle sounds you like are lost in a morass of accordions, fiddles, whistles and bagpipes. You are lucky to hear the notes and ornaments much less the tone of the instrument.

On stage is a different animal where the player is helped by internal or external amplification, hence a different setup and most likely lighter strings. Heavier strings help in a session, a more finessed setup on stage. Tom Cussen sets his instruments up for one or the other, I think, judging from the results i have seen in the past (which are not that many, I should add.) Guitars are setup the same way for performers depending on the style and type of performance and are often setup for first position or highter positions depending on the player. I think that in a much smaller sense ITM banjo setup has the same features (hardly anyone plays past second position in ITM) but more related to how the banjo is amplified, or not. I suspect that jazz setups really look at this issue too.

Mike

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 12/12/2012:  16:19:41

Mike,

Thanks again.

I´ve never been to a session (AFAICR) - my experiences of ITM are from many concerts, large festivals, TV-shows, vids, CD´s etc. So I have never experienced a banjo in a session situation as described by you.

But - most of the ITM players, that I´ve helped in the past, are in fact mostly playing at sessions and in smaller clubs - so I´ll have your remarks in mind.

As for jazz tenors - I do always set up these - no matter their origin, quality and daily use - as if they were going to be played at a solo concert in Carnegie Hall the following day. My buddies/clients do appreciate this very much - even if their banjos have been set up in the same odd á la 50s/60s way for many years - before getting in my hands. You and others would be extremely surprised experiencing banjos like this before and after my rebuilds and set-up´s.

Besides performing the "make-overs" I teach many of the established jazz banjo players how to exploit the extended potentials of their rebuilt banjos by using the best suited techniques and if possible f.ex. more heavy picks.

Once I get to the set-up of the Paragon - I´ll consider following it to a session for experiencing it "live". This could give me another approach towards its most suited set-up.

Polle