WErbsen - Posted - 07/01/2012:  08:50:03

Howdy!

I'm working on a new bluegrass banjo book to be called Bluegrass Jamming on Banjo. nativeground.com/books-cds/ins...ooks.html

Among other topics, I'm going to try to answer some questions that pop up constantly from beginners or struggling intermediate players.

What questions would YOU like answered? I'm really appreciate it if you'd let me know what questions, issues, concerns you have in learning the banjo. If your question gets included in the book, I'll even include your name, if you want. Email me directly at banjo[at]nativeground.com

Here's some of the questions I'll be addressing. I look forward hearing from you.

“When and how do I count in at the beginning of a song?”

“How do I know what rolls to play when?”

“Should I practice with a metronome?

“How to make the melody stand out among a sea of notes?”

“What strings should I play when I am playing back-up?”

“How can I take a break on a song I don’t know?”

“What should I play for back-up when I don’t know the song?

“Am I supposed to play the verse, the chorus, or both when I take my break?”

“How can I keep all my solos from sounding the same?”

THANKS SO MUCH for your input!  Wayne Erbsen

cherbr - Posted - 07/01/2012:  09:01:46

I look forward to your new book. I started out with Bluegrass Banjo for the Complete Ignoramus and it was really helpful.

I think something about the dos and don'ts of jamming would be nice. Something along the lines of proper jamming etiquette.

kmwaters - Posted - 07/01/2012:  09:11:00

Sounds like a nice project Wayne.  I would review the material in similar books and DVD's done by others that talk about backup and jamming.  While there are some good ones, I believe there is room for addressing some of what your list of questions adresses.  I have Jack Hatfield's backup book, Arthur Hatfields backup DVD, Janet Davis' Splitting the Licks, and Pete Wernick's Putting It All Together.  If you have these or have access to these, I think they will show you what you could bring to the table to complement them.  Not that some replication would be bad of course.

BJD - Posted - 07/01/2012:  09:44:25

Is it appropriate to play a melodic break at a jam?  There was a comment about this at a festival I attended recently.  Some folks at a slow jam I went to recently said don't play any melodic breaks.  Also, what does it mean when the jam leader says "We are going to do this like old timey jams."  

I look forward to your new book.

skollie - Posted - 07/01/2012:  10:05:15

great idea ill be the first to buy one 

have a great day thanks again

Fathand - Posted - 07/01/2012:  10:09:06

I cannot imagine why one would not play a melodic break at a slow bluegrass jam as long as you were playing it at the same speed as everyone else and it fit the song. One object of slow jams is giving newer players a chance to develop skills and this would include putting your new techniques into practice. Not to mention that some fiddle and mandolin players often play melodic leads almost exclusively so why wouldn't a banjo?

If someone suggests they want to do a tune Old Timey style then you should ask them what they mean because there are a lot of different definitions of Old Timey. I went to 3 Old Time Jams in Virginia within 60 miles and they were all different formats. Where I live it sometimes means Hank Williams tunes.

So here is a Topic for Wayne's Book. How about a chapter that describes some typical Jam Formats and some of their variations? This could cover a typical Bluegrass "Circle Jam", A "Slow Jam"an Appalachian style Old Time Jam where everyone follows the fiddler, and an open mic style jam where people take turns standing at the mic in front of an audience while the others take turns as back up musicians. Even though these are not always "Bluegrass Jams" as per the book topic, it may help people who have to play their Bluegrass in mixed genre jams because there are no "Bluegrass" Jams available.

quote:

---

Originally posted by BJD

Is it appropriate to play a melodic break at a jam?  There was a comment about this at a festival I attended recently.  Some folks at a slow jam I went to recently said don't play any melodic breaks.  Also, what does it mean when the jam leader says "We are going to do this like old timey jams."  

 

I look forward to your new book.

---

Ron44 - Posted - 07/01/2012:  10:36:59

Wish someone would work up that kind
of resource for clawhammer folks

dnelsonka8kds - Posted - 07/01/2012:  10:58:32

How about if maybe you can include ,how to tell what key a song is in...Also for us beginners and easy way to tell when chord changes come...I  know if i listen ill hear it...Good luck with the book....Tks Dave

Gymbal31 - Posted - 07/01/2012:  11:00:50

When am I good enough to go to a jam?

bc99 - Posted - 07/01/2012:  11:12:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by dnelsonka8kds

How about if maybe you can include ,how to tell what key a song is in...Also for us beginners and easy way to tell when chord changes come...I  know if i listen ill hear it...Good luck with the book....Tks Dave

---

This is a great idea, it's been one of the hardest things to learn when going to real jams, and when playing with singers who choose to do a song in another key, say, B or C, etc.

MOUNTAIN GOAT - Posted - 07/01/2012:  11:24:52

Not a question, but some advice. How many newbies give up because they struggle with the left hand? I was struggling at first too. What I found ( my opinion ) is that string spacing and set up may be more important for the new guy than long time pickers. I really got into this and called the manufacturers. SO I set off and made a few nuts myself optimizing string spacing and height off the frets. It made a HUGE difference in the ease of the left hand. Now that I am used to it, it probably doesn't make quite as much difference, but I really like it the way it is. The higher the strings are off the frets, the more chance you have of fouling another string. The closer the strings are together, the easier it is to fould another string. I know a lot of you out there say just practice, but some get too frustrated with it and give up before they get to play. If everything were done up front to make it as easy as possible for the beginner, more would make it through and keep on playing. Optimized string placement is relative to the width of the neck and the width to the bevel of the frets. For 20 bucks of tools and nut material, someone with some talent can make their own nut and bridge for that matter. So I say the nut, the bow of the neck, the bridge and the tail piece are critically important to optimize BEFORE the beginner gets so frustrated that they quit. Its a little more time and money, but when done right, even a relatively inexpensive banjo can sound really good and be much easier to play.

WErbsen - Posted - 07/01/2012:  12:27:54

Thanks so much to everyone for your great comments.

Keep 'em coming!

Here's a few quick responses.

If you play melodic-style banjo, then that's what you should play in a jam. However, keep in mind that melodic playing should only be on your break, not back-up.

If someone says we're playing this jam bluegrass jam like an old-time jam, I would take that to mean that everyone is playing together, not taking solos.

Someone asked about a jamming clawhammer book. As a matter of fact, when I finish Bluegrass Jamming on Banjo, I'm doing to do a follow up to my book, Clawhammer Banjo for the Complete Ignoramus, but make it more about how to jam. Let me know via email if you'd like to be contacted when that's available. banjo[at]nativeground.com

Again, thanks so much for your ideas. If you think of other questions the average beginner or struggling intermediate player might have, send them on.

Wayne Erbsen

minstrelmike - Posted - 07/01/2012:  12:39:55

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gymbal31

When am I good enough to go to a jam?

---

 Hopefully Wayne will answer in his book.

In my opinion, you are good enough to go to a jam when you can actually play backup chords to real songs in real time.

Being able to play lead is completely irrelevant but interestingly enough, that's usually the time most folks go to a jam, afte they can play lead good enough in their mind. half of them give up (ime). The other half keep coming to the jam and eventually change their focus from playing lead to learning the basics of how to play songs while sitting in the circle and then they start moving up from that starting point.

In other words, I think almost everyone starts from the 2nd starting point except the folks who aren't in that much hurry in which case they start with the basics of music, not with a bluegrass banjo lead.

There are two mandatory skills for having a jam. someone must be able to lead a song and someone else must be able to follow along on that song. IF all you can play is a lead break, then cannot even lead the _song_

DrBob - Posted - 07/01/2012:  14:09:54

Dear Wayne,
I too used your book as my first. I've been playin' now for about 2 1/2 years. Having just returned from the OATS festival, I might be able to offer a few relevant, fresh questions: 1) How many verses are 'too many' when it's your turn to select a song ( I was told that 3 verses are customary)
; 2) Is it important to at least BE FAMILIAR with the chords on other instruments ( so that you have an idea what-the-heck they're playing); 3) Is it 'proper' to bring books to a jam...and, if so, should they just contain words, chords and/or tabs; 4) When/how does one tune one's instrument during a jam; 5) What's the best way to ask for help when you want to select a song, but you're not all that familiar with all the verses; 5) How do ya' know that you're actually INVITED to join in a jam, aside from being formally asked?

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 07/01/2012:  14:14:09

quote:

---

Originally posted by WErbsen

Howdy!

I'm working on a new bluegrass banjo book to be called Bluegrass Jamming on Banjo. nativeground.com/books-cds/ins...ooks.html

Among other topics, I'm going to try to answer some questions that pop up constantly from beginners or struggling intermediate players.

What questions would YOU like answered? I'm really appreciate it if you'd let me know what questions, issues, concerns you have in learning the banjo. If your question gets included in the book, I'll even include your name, if you want. Email me directly at banjo[at]nativeground.com

Here's some of the questions I'll be addressing. I look forward hearing from you.

“When and how do I count in at the beginning of a song?”

“How do I know what rolls to play when?”

“Should I practice with a metronome?

“How to make the melody stand out among a sea of notes?”

“What strings should I play when I am playing back-up?”

“How can I take a break on a song I don’t know?”

“What should I play for back-up when I don’t know the song?

“Am I supposed to play the verse, the chorus, or both when I take my break?”

“How can I keep all my solos from sounding the same?”

THANKS SO MUCH for your input!  Wayne Erbsen

---

 Hi Wayne

I have been learning to play the banjo for the past four years, I took up the banjo late in life aged 61. I don't have a teacher. I manage my own lesson plan from the wealth of instructional books, CDs and DVDs I have accumulated over the years.

It's great that someone of your standing has come to the Banjo Hangout to invite students to submit questions/suggestions to help you compile your new book. The wealth of material that is currently out there covers a great deal but from my experiance I would say that there is a lot more that has been left out which in many ways dogs a students progress and sadly often frustrates students so much that they give up learning altogether.

Finding the solution to that obstacle I would say should rank highly on your agenda.    

I hope you don't take my questions the wrong way but I feel I have to ask.

Is a book really the right approach to teaching jamming skills ?

Don't you think students would learn more from watching a video of a band go through it's preparation on screen?  

I am not mindful to discuss my experience (good and bad) of other instructional tools I use here on the Hangout but if you feel my knowledge and personal experience of using such Virtual Teaching Aids would assist you in any way I would be happy to exchange emails. Feel free to drop me a PM with any questions you may have.

WErbsen - Posted - 07/01/2012:  14:31:59

Is a book really the right approach to learning jamming skills?



That is a fair question. My answer is a categorical “YES,” if the person writing the book has a lot of teaching experience, and can walk the student through some of the pitfalls of jamming, step by step.



As for my own credentials, I have been teaching banjo constantly since 1963. That’s 49 years.



What you really want when you go to a jam is a little ear piece, so you can hear the voice of your instructor egging you on. Short of that, yes, the right book could be extremely helpful. I’m quite sure that my new book, Bluegrass Jamming on Banjo, will have at least something for everybody.



No, it won’t teach you everything you need to know on every song, in every situation. But it sure will be helpful in showing you the basics, and heading the nervous would-be jammer in the right direction.



Thanks!



Wayne Erbsen

darrelhayes - Posted - 07/01/2012:  18:52:57

No question, no comment.  I need that book now.  I love what you have done to date and by the way, I am the "ignoramus" you wrote the book for.  Thanks it has been a lot of help as I know this next book will be as well.

Rich Weill - Posted - 07/01/2012:  20:20:51

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gymbal31

When am I good enough to go to a jam?

---

Like Mike, I hope your answer to this question will be featured prominently.  It's a question asked often on the Hangout.

In addition to parsing the few jam skills you do need from those you don't, at least not at the start -- as Mike has -- l'd suggest that your answer also include something along the following lines:  You don't need to get good in order to jam; you need to jam in order to get good.

Cornflake - Posted - 07/01/2012:  21:56:18

When I started I was concerned and confused about appropriate left hand finger positions. Maybe you could discuss this.

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 07/01/2012:  23:29:05

quote:

---

Originally posted by WErbsen

Is a book really the right approach to learning jamming skills?



That is a fair question. My answer is a categorical “YES,” if the person writing the book has a lot of teaching experience, and can walk the student through some of the pitfalls of jamming, step by step.



As for my own credentials, I have been teaching banjo constantly since 1963. That’s 49 years.



What you really want when you go to a jam is a little ear piece, so you can hear the voice of your instructor egging you on. Short of that, yes, the right book could be extremely helpful. I’m quite sure that my new book, Bluegrass Jamming on Banjo, will have at least something for everybody.



No, it won’t teach you everything you need to know on every song, in every situation. But it sure will be helpful in showing you the basics, and heading the nervous would-be jammer in the right direction.



Thanks!



Wayne Erbsen

---

 Wayne

I acknowledge your cred's and respect your many years of teaching and playing experience. I am simply sharing my insight to my experience as a virtual student who has many experienced virtual teachers in his well stocked library each claiming they have the solution to every struggling beginners problems.

I know which ones have helped me the most (and more importantly why these have helped me) and those that sit on the bookshelf gathering dust.

 I do hope your book project is beneficial to those who purchase it.

 I wish you every success.

Tam  

Paulf - Posted - 07/01/2012:  23:56:57

Book sounds good.  Will be looking forward to it.

Paul

archtop717 - Posted - 07/02/2012:  08:06:55

Strum chords to songs you know. They can be very simple songs but they can give you a sence of timing and give you the feel that you need to start a tune.