SWCooper - Posted - 08/30/2011:  13:59:19

So, why is the export of mother of pearl restricted? It's down to Fish and Wildlife regs, like the rationale behind the Gibson raids, and I don't want to open a can of worms. But, unlike the woods argument, I don't even see the point of this one. Most shell comes from the far East originally, so I could see a reason to watch it coming IN to the country. But why out again? And as far as I know, very little shell is from endangered beasties (some of it is even farmed, a byproduct of the cultured pearl industry).

I want to learn pearl inlay and engraving, and I've just bumped my nose against this one browsing Stewart-MacDonald for MoP blanks (shipping restrictions).

BDCA - Posted - 08/30/2011:  14:29:02

Abalone is a highly regulated shell fish in the US. I can't imagine MOP being an issue but maybe they are afraid of the possible confusion of the two by customs?

Cya!

Bob

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/30/2011:  14:41:46

I would look to the regulations of the UK for illumination on this one. Or possibly Stu-Mac finds the conflicting regulations worldwide enough reason to decide to avoid the whole problem.

SWCooper - Posted - 08/30/2011:  14:58:41

More likely the latter. Here's the relevant text at the link:

Pearl

We cannot ship any pearl, shell or abalone products outside of the U.S. due to United States Fish and Wildlife Service restrictions. This includes items made from, or inlayed with, genuine pearl and shell material.

bluemule_77 - Posted - 08/30/2011:  15:00:57

What about finished banjos (not from Stew-Mac, but any maker or dealer of finished banjos)?

ollie von popcorn - Posted - 08/30/2011:  15:09:06

Abalone is super regulated. When we used to abalone dive you had a 4 a day limit on red abalone, now they have punch cards and there is a 20 a season limit. There was a HUGE problem with poachers from Japan coming over and taking hundreds in a day. White abalone is fished out and gone in California. I believe the restriction is on South African abalone. Unless you have the proper paperwork, I think it's damn near impossible to visually tell which is which. There was a great article in fretboard journal on this a few years back.

fretboardjournal.com/features/...on-treaty

SWCooper - Posted - 08/30/2011:  15:12:20

On one of the 'Gibson raid' threads, there's a rumor that PRS aren't going to put MoP on their basic level guitars any more. So I'm guessing you *can* do it, but there's a prohibitive amount of paperwork. The profit on a pearl blank is probably way too small to justify the people time needed to mollify the bureaucracy.

And thus at least one very small international transaction was quashed tonight.

maryzcox - Posted - 08/30/2011:  15:13:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by SWCooper

More likely the latter. Here's the relevant text at the link:

Pearl

We cannot ship any pearl, shell or abalone products outside of the U.S. due to United States Fish and Wildlife Service restrictions. This includes items made from, or inlayed with, genuine pearl and shell material.

---

 Whoah--a local artist made a really cool necklace out of my antique brass banjo wrench that John Bowlin sent me--he used a lot of local oyster shell--which is surprisingly beautiful with the brass.  I wonder if I wear it on a cruise or out of the country if it will be confiscated?

Best wishes,

Mary Z. Cox

maryzcox.com

pluckyfingers - Posted - 08/30/2011:  15:30:10

Not mother of pearl but a related article regarding restricted transport of instrument timbers.

australianbluegrass.com/index....-in-fear/ 

gansen - Posted - 08/30/2011:  15:38:48

I think with MOP the bigger issue would be transfering the creature to foreign waters. Kinda like how moveing wood around has transfered the Emerld ash bore, or that asian beatle, or I think there's a Janpanes headhead bass in some rivers in ill. right now that got here by accident but is raising problems. As for doing your own inlay work. As a kid I remember saving shells from boating trips in the Mississippi to play with inlay work. It was fun, but I never was very good. As for Mary, I wouldn't cross international boarders they have prisons in other countries for hardend criminals like that. Lol.

maryzcox - Posted - 08/30/2011:  16:05:30

quote:

---

Originally posted by gansen



 As for Mary, I wouldn't cross international boarders they have prisons in other countries for hardend criminals like that. Lol.

---

 LOL :)

BDCA - Posted - 08/30/2011:  16:53:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by pluckyfingers

Not mother of pearl but a related article regarding restricted transport of instrument timbers.

australianbluegrass.com/index....-in-fear/ 

---

Well I think that article is a bunch of media hype! I travel extensively with heavily inlaid banjos and a Brazilian rosewood guitar, and have never even had the cases opened. I was on a flight from South Africa where a tourist was taken away with his new bush hat and leopard hat band. They were talking a $25,000 fine...ooops!

Cya!

Bob

Duke of Pearl - Posted - 08/30/2011:  19:30:00

None of the 18 or so species of shell currently used in the industry are "listed" (threatened, endangered, or protected), but border agents have more than once confused it with the couple of species which are, such as white ocean pearl oyster (Pinctada maxima) for the banned White abalone (Haliotis sorenseni), or Paua ab. (H. iris) for the protected Black ab. (H. cracherodii). These shells don't at all look like each other and an expert could easily distinguish them but border agents can't possibly be specialists in all the thousands of things they need to deal with. Even if paperwork is correctly submitted it can still be challenged and the material sent to a government lab for testing (and you can be charged over $1000.00 for the lab work and a "storage" fee even if the government was wrong).



 Other than the 2 or 3 protected species of abalone, shell itself isn't actually "restricted" or controlled at the border other than requiring a special U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) Declaration Form 3-177 -- but use of this form incurs an automatic $91.00 "inspection" fee (even if never inspected) and hiring a customs broker, bringing additional expense for a shipment to about $200.00.  Moving any fish or wildlife material or product across the U.S. border also requires getting a USFWS Import/Export Permit at $100.00/year (even if you're doing only a single shipment).

There's also no "de minimis" exception, meaning it doesn't matter how large or small the shipment or value is, it needs to be declared.  A shipment which contains wildlife material or requires any type of species-specific permitting must go through a “formal clearance” procedure, regardless of its size or value (Q&A no. 9):

9. Is there a de minimis exception?  The statute does not provide for any de minimis exceptions, either to the substantive prohibitions or to the declaration requirement. 

Additionally, there is no “innocent owner exception” for border crossings that, however unintentionally, violate declaration requirements.  Full details about the procedures, definitions, restrictions, and allowances for importing and re-exporting woods can be found in the USDA/APHIS Cites I-II-III Timber Species Manual.  Section 1 is the Introduction, 2 is Importation, and 3 is Re-exportation. 

Lacey requires interstate shipments of fish or wildlife materials/products to be labeled as such on the outside of every container, with a full description attached either outside or inside (common and Latin species names, country of origin, and amount of each in metric volume or weight). No one has ever yet bothered to enforce this law, but if ever challenged that wouldn't be accepted as a defense. The interstate marking regulation does NOT apply to plant materials such as instrument woods.



Some things to keep in mind on all of this are that 1) CITES only applies at the international border; 2) the Lacey Act concerns materials already in the U.S., but along with demanding conformance to domestic tribal, state or federal laws (Endangered Species Act, Marine Mammal Protection Act, etc.) it also requires that no international laws were violated (such as CITES) or those of any country involved in the material’s origin or chain of custody.



The way this plays out in practice is that for any material already here in the states (which isn’t just outright illegal) it’s up to the U.S. agencies to prove that a violation has been committed, and that can’t be done without them producing either a paper trail or witnesses. So for any Brazilian rosewood that lacks paperwork, it might be questioned but can’t be confiscated or banned from use or sale. But as soon as that wood (or anything made from it) tries to leave the country the burden of proof changes and it’s then up to the owner to provide a paper trail proving it was imported legally or pre-ban.

See 50 CFR part 23.13(d), part 23.15(d)(7) which explains the CITES requirements for traveling internationally with your personal or household effects that include CITES material.  These say that import/export documents aren’t needed unless an item or shipment contains CITES Appendix I materials; a guitar containing CITES I materials like Brazilian rosewood, tortoiseshell, or ivory must be accompanied by a species-specific export permit, such as a preconvention certificate 3-200-32 – but this only applies to the U.S. and doesn’t necessarily protect the owner in other countries.  For CITES II materials no permit is needed as long as all other personal exemption requirements are met (such as not involving any type of commercial activity). 

An excellent and recently updated piece by John Thomas regarding the impact of CITES on traveling musicians is in the online version of the Fall, 2008 Fretboard Journal. 

What must ALWAYS be avoided is getting involved with wildlife material which comes from endangered (“listed”) plants and animals and lacks a paper trail.  Genuine antiques might be O.K.; but materials or products of recent or undocumented origins, having falsified paperwork, or coming from unscrupulous dealers will eventually put both you others at risk.  It also defeats the original and legitimate purpose of these wildlife laws: to protect species which are dangerously close to extinction.  Establish a high ethic for your activities and then stick with it, and above all make sure you “know your dealer”!  

Tim13 - Posted - 08/31/2011:  07:35:02

What I find interesting is the bigger picture. As a world society, we are creating these laws and regulations to keep the planets species (plants, animals, and insects, etc...) in a state of stasis. We are trying to stop extinction of particular organisms. Over the course of time, species come and go from natural effects. You could even argue that man's current technological level is a natural occurrence. Even in the past 100 years, I'm sure there have been species of organisms become extinct we didn't even know existed. If humans didn't harvest certain abalone species into extinction, who's to say the wouldn't have succumbed to a parasite 200 years from now? All of the species protection acts are very artificial to me. While good intentioned, these laws are attempting to alter the planet based on our idea of what's right. In other words, one species (humans) is dictating what happens to all other species. I can't help but think of that 1970's Chiffon Margarine commercial: "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature."



Tim

Hotrodtruck - Posted - 08/31/2011:  07:39:27

"Well I think that article is a bunch of media hype! I travel extensively with heavily inlaid banjos and a Brazilian rosewood guitar, and have never even had the cases opened. "

Yep, it's all hype. Until it happens to you....

stigandr5 - Posted - 08/31/2011:  08:04:04

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim13

What I find interesting is the bigger picture. As a world society, we are creating these laws and regulations to keep the planets species (plants, animals, and insects, etc...) in a state of stasis. We are trying to stop extinction of particular organisms. Over the course of time, species come and go from natural effects. You could even argue that man's current technological level is a natural occurrence. Even in the past 100 years, I'm sure there have been species of organisms become extinct we didn't even know existed. If humans didn't harvest certain abalone species into extinction, who's to say the wouldn't have succumbed to a parasite 200 years from now? All of the species protection acts are very artificial to me. While good intentioned, these laws are attempting to alter the planet based on our idea of what's right. In other words, one species (humans) is dictating what happens to all other species. I can't help but think of that 1970's Chiffon Margarine commercial: "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature."







Tim

---

While I can see your point, Tim, I think I'd rather have some imperfect environmental/species protection laws than to leave the management of the whole green Earth (and the big blue sea) to man's whims. There're simply too many historical examples of man abusing the abundance of nature and causing a lot of suffering in the process.

Nathan

SWCooper - Posted - 08/31/2011:  08:45:22

I've just heard back from DePaule Supply (in case anyone else is looking). They'll send mother of pearl anywhere, as they ship directly from their source in Viet Nam.

Old Hickory - Posted - 08/31/2011:  08:50:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim13

 All of the species protection acts are very artificial to me. While good intentioned, these laws are attempting to alter the planet based on our idea of what's right.

---

As opposed to letting us go on altering the planet based on our idea of what looks pretty?

gansen - Posted - 08/31/2011:  10:27:03

In chicago's natural history muessum there is a clock that counts the number of new creatures being discovered and the number becoming exstint. Number number disappearing is far greater than is being discovered. And there's a big poster on the wall that talks about how right now we are part of the next great exstintion. This makes me sad. So lets talk supply and demand. The supply of old growth hardwoods is growing short. The demand is only growing. We use wood for so many things, houses, heat, boats, paper, cooking, you name it. Some times we cut it down just for the land under it. I'm afraid the supply of habitable planets is where in a few short years we are going to run into trouble. Think of Easter island. Once there lived a great nation on this small island, they used wood for everything. They used every tree on the island. No one lives there now.

stigandr5 - Posted - 08/31/2011:  10:43:05

Well, people still live on Rapa Nui (Eater Island), just none of the originals from the culture you described. Point taken, though.

stigandr5 - Posted - 08/31/2011:  12:49:03

EDIT: That should have been, "Easter Island."

erikforgod - Posted - 08/31/2011:  13:01:09

quote:

---

Originally posted by stigandr5

Well, people still live on Rapa Nui (Eater Island), just none of the originals from the culture you described. Point taken, though.

---

I went to Easter Island in 2008 while I was living in Santiago de Chile....it was gift from two missionary friends who came down from the USA to visit me....its a pretty cool place...the only Polynesian Island in "latin america" where they all speak Spanish with heavy Chilean accents, although they are clearly Polynesians ( and speak their own tongue as well. I stayed there for 3 days before the 4 1/2 hour flight back to Santiago :)

Rapa Nui is the name of the little village there...it has a population of about 2,000 folks

Jonnycake White - Posted - 08/31/2011:  13:25:12

OK here's a related story and question: A few months ago, one of my ex-neighbors asked me to help load his antique piano into a pickup truck for transporting to his new home. A few minutes later, he came back to the door and asked me to come down and get any pieces of his antique piano that I wanted. It had toppled out of the truck, the second corner they went around! I grabbed most of the keys for ebony nuts or bridge caps and ivory inlays. Since ivory is illegal to cross borders, how can I prove the origin of this ivory? I have pictures of the smashed up piano and I'm sure my friend would sign an affidavit, but will that be enough?

uncle.fogey - Posted - 08/31/2011:  13:40:27

This is a very interesting subject and thread, and is part of a number going on right now precipitated, I guess by the "Feds raid Gibson" thing.

I want to be able to use the best materials available, for sure, but NOT at the cost of making some trees and other species extinct. I'm not going to comment on whether or not man "has dominion over the fish and fowl" - that's a religious issue and I'm not going to go there.  There is an ethical argument, though, that we ought to be respectful of what we have, and treat it with respect.  To me that means, don't be a jackass like the person on Easter Island who cut down the last tree "duh".

SO, I have every intention of not using endangered wood, shells (I used to LOVE those tortoise shell picks, but I gave them up, and I thought ivory on piano keys was good-looking , but I gave that up, too.  I have enough old Brazilian rosewood that I've had since 1964, and I'll keep using it.  I'll buy MOP and abalone from guys like Andy dePaul, because HE knows the rules and has to abide by them - I trust the people who's livelihood depends on these materials to comply with the rules.  If I try to order "blahdy blahdy abalone" from one of these people like Andy, and he says "it's no longer available because it's endangered" - OK - c'est la vie.  Thanks, Andy, I wouldn't have known that.

How many of us keep up on what's going on with the illegal trade in lumber, animals, etc etc? There are plenty of snakes in Florida right now that would eat your kids for breakfast because nobody enforced the laws.

Sorry, but I not only don't care if the trade in illegal lumber is being enforced, I applaud it.

I can make a banjo that sounds every bit as good as one made from illegal materials without using any of them - try me.

steve davis - Posted - 08/31/2011:  14:02:02

Are the Japanese allowed to use the ivory-like teeth of the whales they kill for inlays or decorative purposes?
Can we buy whale teeth from them?

SWCooper - Posted - 08/31/2011:  14:16:38

I'm happy to see the trade in illegal materials shut down. That doesn't look like what's going on with Gibson. Nothing I wanted to buy from Stewart McDonald is in the least endangered (seriously, if you can sell it IN the US, what is the conservation issue selling outside?). I know of several luthiers who have recently become afraid to ship to the US because of rumors about over zealous enforcement (and, believe me, little businesses around the world count on the mighty American market).

The Lacey Act has been on the books since 1900, and CITES since the Sixties or Seventies. Why is this causing problems now?

Government is a blunt instrument for solving complex problems. An example: I living in a fishing village in the South of England. There are very rigid legal quotas on certain species of fish at certain times of year. Well and good. But a net is a net...it nets them all. Result? Exactly as many fish of all species are caught as before, but fully half the fish caught in the North Sea are thrown back into the water dead because it would be illegal to land them. Not exactly good stewardship, is it?

uncle.fogey - Posted - 08/31/2011:  14:32:03

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim13

What I find interesting is the bigger picture. As a world society, we are creating these laws and regulations to keep the planets species (plants, animals, and insects, etc...) in a state of stasis. We are trying to stop extinction of particular organisms. Over the course of time, species come and go from natural effects. You could even argue that man's current technological level is a natural occurrence. Even in the past 100 years, I'm sure there have been species of organisms become extinct we didn't even know existed. If humans didn't harvest certain abalone species into extinction, who's to say the wouldn't have succumbed to a parasite 200 years from now? All of the species protection acts are very artificial to me. While good intentioned, these laws are attempting to alter the planet based on our idea of what's right. In other words, one species (humans) is dictating what happens to all other species. I can't help but think of that 1970's Chiffon Margarine commercial: "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature."







Tim

---

Sounds like a well rehearsed justification for bad behavior - I LOVE the fact that you guys always refer to what you oppose  as "well intentioned" Did you learn that at some seminar?  You're not "well intentioned" at all  - just the opposite. Time you admitted that.

SWCooper - Posted - 08/31/2011:  14:38:11

Wow.

This won't end well.

uncle.fogey - Posted - 08/31/2011:  15:44:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis

Are the Japanese allowed to use the ivory-like teeth of the whales they kill for inlays or decorative purposes?

Can we buy whale teeth from them?

---

Right on, Steve!

I'm sure they are.We live in a world where "cultural" practices, like killing whales, trapping animals for fur etc, are given some kind of respect, even though they shouldn't be in a civilized society.

SWCooper - Posted - 08/31/2011:  15:50:17

Oddly, you can buy mammoth ivory freely. Because there's more of it about than you think and, let's face it, we've done all we can do to the mammoth population already.

Tim13 - Posted - 08/31/2011:  15:50:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by SWCooper

Wow.

This won't end well.

---

Yes it will.  I now see it's not possible to have a non-heated discussion about this, and I'm going to refrain from further comment.

Tim

Mike Casey - Posted - 08/31/2011:  15:58:50

I admit it. I am not well intentioned.

uncle.fogey - Posted - 08/31/2011:  16:05:47

I think I'm off it, too - it's run its course.

Everyone have a good evening.

steve davis - Posted - 08/31/2011:  17:06:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by SWCooper

I'm happy to see the trade in illegal materials shut down. That doesn't look like what's going on with Gibson. Nothing I wanted to buy from Stewart McDonald is in the least endangered (seriously, if you can sell it IN the US, what is the conservation issue selling outside?). I know of several luthiers who have recently become afraid to ship to the US because of rumors about over zealous enforcement (and, believe me, little businesses around the world count on the mighty American market).

The Lacey Act has been on the books since 1900, and CITES since the Sixties or Seventies. Why is this causing problems now?

Government is a blunt instrument for solving complex problems. An example: I living in a fishing village in the South of England. There are very rigid legal quotas on certain species of fish at certain times of year. Well and good. But a net is a net...it nets them all. Result? Exactly as many fish of all species are caught as before, but fully half the fish caught in the North Sea are thrown back into the water dead because it would be illegal to land them. Not exactly good stewardship, is it?

---

 Any "by-catch" that gets thrown back does feed the remaining sea life and is always an issue here in the Maine waters.

My Grandfather grew up catching fish with tub trawls(a rope laying on bottom with 100 fish hooks of the size for the desired catch...Codfish to halibut) and the fish size runs very consistantly with trawls. 

When "Gramp" saw how the draggers were rearranging "the bottom" he and other concerned tub trawlers went to our capital to try and get "dragging" to not be allowed.

They soon found that they couldn't keep that from happening and all came home, built draggers and made very good livings.

We have very strict rules concerning vents in dragger nets that allow a very high percent of by-catch to escape unharmed.We also employ escape vents in our lobster traps to allow all small lobsters and crabs to escape with their lives.

Maine leads the way in most seafood conservation/eye to the future fishing regs.I'm very proud of our lobstering laws concerning short and oversize sizes.

Edited by - steve davis on 08/31/2011 17:09:28

stigandr5 - Posted - 09/01/2011:  07:35:58

I always knew I like Maine.

mwc9725e - Posted - 09/01/2011:  09:08:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by SWCooper

So, why is the export of mother of pearl restricted? It's down to Fish and Wildlife regs, like the rationale behind the Gibson raids, and I don't want to open a can of worms. But, unlike the woods argument, I don't even see the point of this one. Most shell comes from the far East originally, so I could see a reason to watch it coming IN to the country. But why out again? And as far as I know, very little shell is from endangered beasties (some of it is even farmed, a byproduct of the cultured pearl industry).

I want to learn pearl inlay and engraving, and I've just bumped my nose against this one browsing Stewart-MacDonald for MoP blanks (shipping restrictions).

---

 Mother of pearls are an endangered species. Hard to find the rascals, and even when you do find them, they're very slippery and hard to hold on to. 

blindsniper - Posted - 09/02/2011:  02:56:30

Abalone is also highly regulated in South Africa.  The wildlife authorities are constantly battling the stripping.  Just this week there was a bust when someone got caught with thousands of 'perlemoen' as abalone is called in these parts.  The question is who gets the license to harvest.  Considering the time it takes for these things to reach sexual maturity, and rate at which it is stripped something needs to be done.

The problem is just too big to simply pass a law.  people will go for the short term profit (steal an egg from the last living breeding dodo), and the law will compensate by being more strict to the point of absurdity. 

BDCA - Posted - 09/02/2011:  07:09:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hotrodtruck

"Well I think that article is a bunch of media hype! I travel extensively with heavily inlaid banjos and a Brazilian rosewood guitar, and have never even had the cases opened. "

 

Yep, it's all hype. Until it happens to you....

---

The Fretboard article is also a bunch of hype. It's like calling the DEA and asking what happens if you bring some cocaine across the border. Enforcement is all about expending limited resources where it will have the most impact. Thats why they raided Gibson and not some small one man operation. It has sent a clear message through the industry and certainly got more than a few BHO members excited...

Folks also get struck by lightning s but I have been outside during storms and I'm still here. We have a lot of members on this forum..give me one, just one example of someone who has even had his case opened by some agents looking for endangered materials....

Blind Sniper: I used to dive for Perlemun in Buffles Bay until I ran into a 20 foot fish with big teeth. Great eating and the shells make nice ash trays. There were piles of empty shells around the Cape in the 70s.

Cya!

Bob

Edited by - BDCA on 09/02/2011 07:14:50

blindsniper - Posted - 09/04/2011:  23:03:07

---

---

---

The Fretboard article is also a bunch of hype. It's like calling the DEA and asking what happens if you bring some cocaine across the border. Enforcement is all about expending limited resources where it will have the most impact. Thats why they raided Gibson and not some small one man operation. It has sent a clear message through the industry and certainly got more than a few BHO members excited...

Folks also get struck by lightning s but I have been outside during storms and I'm still here. We have a lot of members on this forum..give me one, just one example of someone who has even had his case opened by some agents looking for endangered materials....

 

Blind Sniper: I used to dive for Perlemun in Buffles Bay until I ran into a 20 foot fish with big teeth. Great eating and the shells make nice ash trays. There were piles of empty shells around the Cape in the 70s.

Cya!

Bob

---

 Bob, There is a town called Oyster Bay near Jeffreys.  I remember in '77 we used to be a ble to see many oysters.  I was there last year and could not find one.  Makes you wonder...Perlemoen... is still there, but only illegal operators with very fast boats are doing the harvesting.  The good responsible folks do not get license.

banjoak - Posted - 09/05/2011:  03:49:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis

Maine leads the way in most seafood conservation/eye to the future fishing regs.

---

Up here in Alaska we take seafood conservation (well most species) very seriously. Still got a fair amount of WILD salmon, and want to keep it that way.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim13

What I find interesting is the bigger picture. As a world society, we are creating these laws and regulations to keep the planets species (plants, animals, and insects, etc...) in a state of stasis. We are trying to stop extinction of particular organisms. Over the course of time, species come and go from natural effects. You could even argue that man's current technological level is a natural occurrence. Even in the past 100 years, I'm sure there have been species of organisms become extinct we didn't even know existed. If humans didn't harvest certain abalone species into extinction, who's to say the wouldn't have succumbed to a parasite 200 years from now? All of the species protection acts are very artificial to me. While good intentioned, these laws are attempting to alter the planet based on our idea of what's right. In other words, one species (humans) is dictating what happens to all other species. I can't help but think of that 1970's Chiffon Margarine commercial: "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature."







Tim

---

So we should leave the management of resources to big corporations and the wealthy? Our species has been dictating what happens to other species for quite a while. Seen how some of that has gone. The corporate have tended to harvest as much as you can today, get the most profit out. Then leave after it's all but gone.

By the way, most of the protected species does not go for instruments. If we can't have MOP on our instruments, it doesn't bother me at all. But quality woods for future instruments is something I would think we want.

BDCA - Posted - 09/05/2011:  05:38:26

Ian:

Bob, There is a town called Oyster Bay near Jeffreys.  I remember in '77 we used to be a ble to see many oysters.  I was there last year and could not find one.  Makes you wonder...Perlemoen... is still there, but only illegal operators with very fast boats are doing the harvesting.  The good responsible folks do not get license.

I once had a photo assignment along the Garden Route and after I finished an early morning shot at Robberg Point, I sat down to rest and noticed I was sitting on an Oyster bed at low tide. (The area is known for it's Oysters). I sat there for over an hour eating the most delicious oysters ever. Later when I was in town, I mentioned the oysters I had for breakfast. I was told I was very lucky as there had been a red tide a few days earlier. I don't think the Robberg oysters would be much good for MOP applications.

Oysters tend to respond to both changes in water temperature and of course, pollution.

Totsiens

Bob

Sheldon - Posted - 09/05/2011:  09:30:39

Because your mother said so . . .

Sheldon