mark_neal - Posted - 02/13/2011:  15:51:26

I am interested in A scale banjos. What exactly makes a banjo "A-scale"? I see that the Bart Reiter Standard A scale has a 24 3/4" neck and 17 frets (has a frailing scoop). The Deering Goodtime parlor banjo has 19 frets, 23-1/8" scale and they say it is tuned to G. What makes the Bart Reiter an A scale and the Deering Parlor better tuned to G? Or am I misunderstanding the purpose of an A scale banjo, that is to be able to tune to A without having to capo?

jduke - Posted - 02/13/2011:  16:37:57

It’s mostly a definition.. If I talk about an A scale banjo, most will understand I’m talking about a banjo that’s approximately 2 frets shorter than standard. A C scale banjo would be approximately 5 frets shorter and a long neck banjo is about 3 frets longer than standard.

Any banjo (short, long or standard) can usually be tuned up or down by a few steps, although a different set of strings may be needed. It’s common for players of old time music to tune their standard banjos to A. By the same token, smaller people or people with health issues may take an A scale banjo and tune it to G. No matter what tuning they are using, if they say they have an A scale banjo, I know they are talking about a banjo that is slightly shorter than standard, not necessarily how it is tuned.

Jeff

jbalch - Posted - 02/13/2011:  16:46:49

Mark:

I think the description "A-scale" is misleading. "Short-scale" is better IMHO. Short scale banjos may be tuned to higher pitch (ie: A or double D) without too much string tension. That maybe the most common use for them.

However, some folks choose short scale instruments because the smaller necks are more comfortable to play. In such a case, it is possible to tune to "standard" pitch (ie: G or double C)....or higher depending on preference. I have a 1994 Bart Reiter banjo with a 23 1/4" scale (approx.) I usually tune it to standard pitch (double C...for me).

mark_neal - Posted - 02/13/2011:  17:15:12

Thanks for the informative replies. I am curious about tuning my standard banjo up to A or D. So far, I have only gone into A and D by tuning to G or double C and capoing up. Are there generally any issues with tuning up that high? Jeff - when you write that a different set of strings may be needed, how will I know? Will I break strings? or will it feel different to play? And what sort of change to my strings? Lighter or heavier?

jbalch - Posted - 02/13/2011:  17:30:24

String tension is the issue when tuning to a higher pitch. At higher tension, they do indeed feel and play differently (not necessarily bad). Higher tension will also affect sustain and tone.

You must also pay attention to stress on the neck. You might be fine ... tuning up on a modern neck with reinforcement or a truss rod (many folks do).

But...be careful with a vintage neck. Many were originally designed for gut strings and lower tunings. You can very easily ruin a vintage banjo by placing too much tension on the neck.

Lighter gauge strings can be tuned higher with less tension. If you do decide to tune your long-scale banjo to a higher pitch, consider the string gauges you are using. Ligher might be better.

Edited by - jbalch on 02/13/2011 17:34:03

jduke - Posted - 02/13/2011:  19:54:58

Mark

Tuning a standard banjo up two half steps to A or Double D is reasonable for most string sets. They should not break and you will find very little difference in playability related to the tension. It may change the sound you are getting from your banjo, which could lead you to investigate different strings, bridges etc.

jbalch’s has made some excellent points, especially his warning about un-reinforced necks.

There is another current thread about using a capo v. tuning up. You will see players on both sides of the issue and their points. I didn’t post there, but if I had, it would be to favor use of a capo. I actually like the sound of my banjo when capoed, plus I like the slightly shorter scale length.

Jeff

Bisbonian - Posted - 02/13/2011:  20:48:19

Try this on for size, Mark:



I stole it from "Save the Banjos".

jbalch - Posted - 02/14/2011:  04:30:03

quote:

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Originally posted by Bisbonian

Try this on for size, Mark:



I stole it from "Save the Banjos".

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kevinwholmes - Posted - 02/14/2011:  05:06:17

A-scale (short scale) banjos can be handy to have if you often play with fiddlers who like to play in D a lot. To put the A-scale "standard" (aEAC#E) tuning into double D, you only have to retune the 2nd string down to D and 4th string up to D and don't need a capo and don't need to retune the 5th string or capo or spike it.

Edited by - kevinwholmes on 02/14/2011 05:14:34

R Buck - Posted - 02/14/2011:  07:58:02

A-scale banjos are great for smaller people like women and children who don't have a long reach or older folks with arthritis in their shoulders.

biscuit joiner - Posted - 02/14/2011:  08:28:22

quote:

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Originally posted by R Buck

A-scale banjos are great for smaller people like women and children who don't have a long reach or older folks with arthritis in their shoulders.

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mark_neal - Posted - 02/14/2011:  09:39:46

Thanks for all the great info. Normally I would like to go into a music store and try various banjos but at least in my neck of the woods it's hard to find any store that carry a wide selection of banjos (if any). It would be nice if one of the bigger manufacturers or retailers would do an internet rent with option to buy program. Maybe they are missing out on something. I was once told that the best way to sell a puppy is to let your customer take it home for free for a week to "see if it works out."

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/14/2011:  10:31:43

A Scale usually refers to the shorter of two scales built by a particular maker. There is no standard definition of Banjo scales - or any fretted instrument. If your standard scale is 25.7 or so your short scale 23.?? will be the "A scale" length. If you have two banjos like a 27 inch scale Vega and a 24.5 inch scale Buckbee you might be inclined to keep the Buckbee tuned to A and call it your A scale banjo, but it, like the Vega was built for the standard pitch of its era.

The term A scale is quite recent - I don't think I ever heard of anyone marketing an A Scale banjo until the last decade. People tended to call some banjos (especially late 19th century banjos) short scale. SS Stewart, master of marketing and self promotion called them "Ladies Banjos". In the Victorian era that simply brought the orders pouring in.

brudford - Posted - 02/14/2011:  12:21:04

I started the thread on the new Gold Tone CC-OT A-scale model they are offering now . I see Mark from your home page that you own a Gold Tone CC-OT , I also have one . That very banjo is now being made with a shorter neck by Gold Tone . Our CC-OT's have the rail road spikes which makes capoing easier . I still do not like the capoed sound .I really do not know why more folks don't go for the A-scales ? I have a Enoch Tradesman and Kevin Enoch told me once that his intention
was to build the Tradesman's with a slightly shorter neck so they could be tuned up to A and left in that tuning .
I tried it for a couple of days and just left it in A tuning with no adverse neck reactions . I then went back to the standard G tuning . I still did not like the extra tension I felt on the strings .
As mentioned above some like the shortened fret postions that a capo offers . However if you are going to use a
capo , make sure your intonation is spot on , period . The higher you capo the more the banjo will sound out of tune if intonation is not correct . I'am going to buy a A-scale when I get the money . I figure since most of the Old Tunes I play were once fiddle tunes why not play them in the key of A like the Fiddle . Also some people save their money and buy the very best American made banjo they can afford . So I can see why alot of players go that route and just use a capo .
It is hard trying to save enough to buy a second A-scale banjo .

Edited by - brudford on 02/14/2011 12:34:20

jbalch - Posted - 02/14/2011:  12:49:35

Here is the link to the Save the Banjos page...excellent!

savethebanjos.com/Scale%20Length.htm

mark_neal - Posted - 02/14/2011:  13:43:27

Excellent, clear, and concise page explaining scale differences. Thanks again for help in understanding this.

kevinwholmes - Posted - 02/14/2011:  14:24:58

Minor matter, but the A-scale "refernce tuning" is listed incorrectly on that page as aEACE. The correct tuning is aEAC#E.