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Seraph - Posted - 11/16/2009: 00:40:00
I'm fairly new to playing the banjo. I started with a Deering Goodtime and a few days ago had the chance to buy a Deering Sierra at a tempting price with my Goodtime in part exchange. I bought the Sierra and I now find that I am having difficulties with the Sierra because it is very heavy, obviously due to the metal tone ring. I play in the sitting position and playing for just half an hour causes pain in my back and legs because of the weight iof the banjo. Is this a common problem or is it just me? Is the weight somethijg you just get used to? Any views would be appreciated.
SandyR - Posted - 11/16/2009: 00:54:47
I'd say you get more used to it as time goes by. At least you play sitting, so for now you don't have to worry about supporting the weight standing. To read many discussions on this topic, try "banjo weight" (or similar things) in the search box up at top right....
derbyshirelad - Posted - 11/16/2009: 01:16:04
I find that it helps me to use a strap even when playing sitting down, adjusted correctly this helps to distribute the weight to your shoulders and legs. I can play my Deering Sierra for several hours without feeling any strain.
Texasbanjo - Posted - 11/16/2009: 06:05:33
I agree with the above: wear a strap and help distribute the weight. My Stelling weighs in at a little over 12# and the strap definitely helps with the weight problem when sitting.
Standing is another thing all together, although it helps distribute the weight, it's still heavy and after about an hour, my back is killing me (G).
Let's Pick!
Texas Banjo
Janet Deering - Posted - 11/16/2009: 06:08:35
Congratulations on getting a new Sierra. It certainly is heavier than a Goodtime.
Are you resting the banjo on just one leg or is the weight distributed to both legs when you are sitting? This can have a big effect. All on one leg it will really be a problem.
I have noticed that guitar players particularly tend to rest the banjo on one leg and need to be told to put it into the middle of their lap.
TMarshall1 - Posted - 11/16/2009: 06:28:59
Seraph, Congrats on your upgrade. Get you a good cradle type strap and adjust it to where the banjo just touches the tops of both legs as you are seated in an upright position. Make sure that the banjo is balanced in the strap so that the neck stays in a comfortable position without assistance from your fretting hand.
An added benefit will be that when you do decide to play while standing, the banjo will still be in the same position as when you were seated. Enjoy that new 'jo!
It's a gDGBD (Gosh Darn Good Banjo Day)!
Tony
Proud Member of
The Gibson Chapter
"...if ya got time to breathe, ya got time for music..."
Briscoe Darling - Apr.29,1963
RaYhOLio - Posted - 11/16/2009: 06:29:20
'weight management' is part of learning the banjo.. If it remains a problem for you, companies like Nechville make great sounding banjos with WOOD tone rings.. that'll fix the problem.
-RayHoLiO
Makin' grass grow in Joplin, MO
www.joplingreenscape.com
Want a bail out plan that actually works??
www.fairtax.org
pcfive - Posted - 11/16/2009: 07:10:30
To Janet Deering:
Hi Janet! I have a Goodtime 2, which I love. It's light and perfect for women (which I am). I wish you would consider making banjos with metal tone rings that are light enough for women. I realize there aren't that many female banjo players, so maybe it isn't worth it. But I promise I would buy one!
pcfive
pickingfive - Posted - 11/16/2009: 08:14:33
I found some increased comfort when I made a banjo strap of leather that is a little over two inches wide - I believe the wider strap where the strap meets my shoulders and back was the reason for the incresed comfort. However, I find that the weight fatigue/pain does not go away completely with this wide strap, but is only reduced.
pickingfive
1four5 - Posted - 11/16/2009: 08:23:49
pcfive,
Deering makes a Goodtime "Special" model, identical to yours, with a really nice metal tone ring that weighs 7 pounds and sounds fantastic.
I play one for this reason, as a 12+ pounds banjo aggrivates a back injury and can trigger severe migraines if I'm not carefull. I've even recently taken it one step further, and now mostly play a custom built open back that weighs 5 pounds (Built by BHO member Helix). Having limited experience with low end open backs in the past, I had no idea one could sound so good. This is certianly an option. I even used my open back at a bluegrass jam a couple weeks ago and it worked great. The enjoyment level goes through the roof when you no longer have to worry about back pain and associated weight issues with heavy instruments.
Dean
Edited by - 1four5 on 11/16/2009 08:25:06
pcfive - Posted - 11/16/2009: 08:28:17
"the weight fatigue/pain does not go away completely with this wide strap"
I really don't understand the need for all this suffering. Isn't there any way to make a great sounding banjo that's light? My Deering sounds very good but of course it is not professional quality.
Can someone explain exactly why metal tone rings must be so big and heavy? Isn't there some kind of compromise?
I wouldn't mind too much if a banjo were a little heavier than mine, if it had a much better sound. But there is no way I would cause myself pain and tiredness over it.
pcfive
pcfive - Posted - 11/16/2009: 08:35:28
"The enjoyment level goes through the roof when you no longer have to worry about back pain"
Thanks Dean, that's what I figured -- pain does nothing for playing enjoyment! I didn't know about the Deering Special -- it sounds like a great compromise. I am still very happy with my Goodtime 2 and not expecting to ever be a professional. But someday I might want the sound you can only get with a metal tone ring.
I am always very conscious of my spine, having been damaged by a car accident decades ago. I know what back pain feels like and I never want to experience that again.
I am usually one of the first to arrive at the jam session and one of the last to leave -- I don't get tired from standing 4 or 5 hours with my Deering.
pcfive
noofus - Posted - 11/16/2009: 09:14:59
When I first switched from a Gold Tone CC100R to my new Deering Deluxe I had the same problem. First week I had it, my chest and legs were actually bruised where the banjo sat on me, and my back/shoulder hurt.
But... I got used to it...within 2 weeks I hardly noticed the weight at all...
pcfive - Posted - 11/16/2009: 09:31:46
"I got used to it...within 2 weeks I hardly noticed the weight at all..."
That would not apply to everyone. Some of us are only 5 feet tall. And even big strong guys very often have an imperfect spine, once they're over 30. I really think ergonomists should get involved.
pcfive
Pjotor - Posted - 11/16/2009: 09:49:08
IIRC there is a strap solution where the brunt, if not all, of the banjo's weight rests around the waist, on the hips.
Many years ago, when I played the saxophone, my teacher (with back problems) had made a strap with two loops. He put the loops onto each of his legs, ran them on his back and over his shoulders, and finally fastened the saxophone on a hook at the front.
Maybe something for a DIY project?
http://www.theleavingband.com -- Swedish bluegrass and more
grm405 - Posted - 11/16/2009: 16:33:25
"Can someone explain exactly why metal tone rings must be so big and heavy? Isn't there some kind of compromise?"
No, the rings don't have to be that heavy. Yes there is a compromise. Try an OME with a Silverspun tone ring. The ring weighs 12oz vs 3+lbs, is just as loud and sounds just as good, although somewhat different. Different as in very clear, clean and quite bright. The OME sounds clear and dry while the Masterclone has a warm, elevated mid-bass sound with more subdued highs.
The Silverspun is a copy of the B&D Silverbell tone rings of the 1920's or so. OME has used them on banjos since the early 1970's. I prefer the sound of my 1977 Juggernaut to any of my heavy banjos. It weighs a little under 10 lb, compared to 12+ lb for my Crafters. That difference in weight is like night and day.
You might contact Dan Pennington on the BHO as he posted recently about a Masterclone pot he was making for a customer with a Silverbell tone ring. Never heard how it turned out.
Gerry
BanjoSKP
barbbanjo - Posted - 11/16/2009: 21:25:59
I'm with pcfive. I'm 5'2" and 60 years old with a bad back. Weight is my enemy - both on me AND on my banjo! I have a Goodtime Special but I love the sound of that heavier tone ring on my Gibson Mastertone. I agree - Janet D - how about some lighter weight banjos for us gals that still have the tone we desire. I love my Goodtime but it is very quiet and kind of tinny sounding next to a heavier banjo. My husband says they use titanium on some piano tuning hammers. How about that?
gdoc - Posted - 11/16/2009: 21:39:11
I have a Stelling, (which I am selling in order to buy a Deering), a Gibson and a Deering Goodtime.
I find I play the Gibson for about 45 minutes to an hour in the morning, and then switch to the Goodtime for the rest of the day, which I will play for 2 -4 more hours.
I play the heaver banjo to enjoy the tone it has, but do all my practicing on the Goodtime because of the weight, and besides it sounds good to. The neck on the goodtime is fantastic.
gdoc
PruchaLegend - Posted - 11/16/2009: 22:34:50
There are several wood tone rings on the market. Deering makes their John Hartford model with a wood tone ring. These banjos weigh less than those with metal tone rings and are reported to have very good sound. I have played one of these banjos and found the sound to be very satisfying.
The only wrong way to play a banjo is to not play at all!
Jonno B - Posted - 11/17/2009: 03:18:43
I bought a beginners banjo to start with and I thought that was it. I then exchanged it for a Deering Sierra and I was amazed at the weight difference. It does take a little time to get used to it. However, persevere with it in the lap equally balanced between both legs and the extra weight gives the banjo a great feel for overall balance and security. You will get to love that quality instrument. Good Luck, it will only get better.
noofus - Posted - 11/17/2009: 06:25:05
quote:
Originally posted by barbbanjo
I'm with pcfive. I'm 5'2" and 60 years old with a bad back. Weight is my enemy - both on me AND on my banjo! I have a Goodtime Special but I love the sound of that heavier tone ring on my Gibson Mastertone. I agree - Janet D - how about some lighter weight banjos for us gals that still have the tone we desire. I love my Goodtime but it is very quiet and kind of tinny sounding next to a heavier banjo. My husband says they use titanium on some piano tuning hammers. How about that?
Check out the Deering John Hartford model. It uses a wood tone ring and sounds amazing. Its not as light as a Goodtime would be, but its still less than half the weight of my Deluxe...
Brian T - Posted - 11/17/2009: 11:10:35
I have a Sierra. Heavier than I expected. Oh well.
1. Broad leather guitar strap, had to lengthen that with leather bootlace to the dogleash clips. The plan is to take some of the weight on my shoulders. I'm 6'2"/220 (100kg). That works OK, but it took several "sittings" to get it to feel right.
2. The type of chair matters very much more than I imagined it would. I found that a straight-backed, dining room chair was most comfortable, even for my boney butt. I had hoped to be able to slouch in a soft chair but that seemed to affect the correctness of my LH fingers and my back tingled a bit.
We do not know where we are going.
Nor do most of us care.
For us, it is enough that we are on our way.
Le Matelot
erstokke - Posted - 11/17/2009: 12:34:23
The Neotech Superstrap makes the banjo feel lighter because it is elastic. Adjust the strap so you distribute the weight between your shoulder and your thighs.
Practice and training makes it better, and over time the mental shock wears off. It is not unexpectedly heavy any more, just heavy as expected.
My banjo is pre-war. Pre the next war
Jan Erik from Norway
james krewson - Posted - 11/17/2009: 14:32:49
This is going to sound pretty macho, but as I'm learning 3 finger style I'm getting into the weight of the banjo- and it's 12 pounds. It's like a rite of passage kind of thing. It adds to the fun in a weird way.
Gold Star GF-85 - Posted - 11/17/2009: 14:41:01
Welcome to the Banjo Hangout. Texasbanjo posted the weight of just over 12 pounds for the Stelling Banjo I have, and my Gibson is a bit heavier, but I play sitting due to a bad back so the weight doesn't really effect me. I have been song leader at our Church for the past 9 years and once I could stand and play but now I have to use a stool, and I still use a strap, it helps to keep the Banjo where I want it.
God Bless
Big John,
1987 Gibson Earl Scruggs Standard
1986 Stelling Sunflower
Bassora - Posted - 11/17/2009: 17:12:13
We only own open-back five string banjos. Even they have a wee bit of "stoutness" because of the tone rings but nothing next to some of the notable weighty bluegrass banjos I've played. Metal tone rings plus massive resonators -- they weigh a ton.
My favorite 5-string is, unfortunately, an unknown name from the turn of the last century with a wood tone ring. It literally feels light as a feather even compared to our two open-backed Bart Reiters.
Bassora Mo
from near the Big Mo
qtip - Posted - 11/18/2009: 05:38:32
I practice sitting, with a pad in my lap, the kind used for woodworking. I place it over both legs and cradle the banjo between my legs. The pad keeps the banjo in place and at the same position even without a shoulder strap. I used to get shoulder pain all the time, but no more.
Old Ron
pcfive - Posted - 11/18/2009: 08:55:06
"This is going to sound pretty macho, but as I'm learning 3 finger style I'm getting into the weight of the banjo- and it's 12 pounds. It's like a rite of passage kind of thing. It adds to the fun in a weird way."
Ah, that explains why banjos keep getting heavier. It's a macho test. Please Deering, we need little lady banjos!
pcfive
Jim T - Posted - 11/18/2009: 11:59:25
quote:
Originally posted by pcfive
"This is going to sound pretty macho, but as I'm learning 3 finger style I'm getting into the weight of the banjo- and it's 12 pounds. It's like a rite of passage kind of thing. It adds to the fun in a weird way."
Ah, that explains why banjos keep getting heavier. It's a macho test. Please Deering, we need little lady banjos!
pcfive
Here you go PC: http://www.nechville.com/athena.htmlNice and light.  Jim
Janet Deering - Posted - 11/19/2009: 06:31:04
Hi Janet! I have a Goodtime 2, which I love. It's light and perfect for women (which I am). I wish you would consider making banjos with metal tone rings that are light enough for women. I realize there aren't that many female banjo players, so maybe it isn't worth it. But I promise I would buy one!
pcfive
Yes, lighter weight banjos have been a personal crusade of mine because at festivals I saw so many people come up interested in learning to play a banjo pick one up, feel the weight, put it back down and say "It's too heavy, I think I'll play a guitar".
So we have many options we produce that provide a great sounding banjo with lighter weight: Starting at the least expensive tonering option and going up the line we have in resonator or openback versions:
1 A Goodtime Special with our steel tonering
2. The Vega Senator with a spun brass tonering
3. The Hartford with the Grenadillo wood tonering
4. The Vega No. 2 with a tubaphone tonering
And, to offer even more flexibility in choosing a ligher weight option we have just begun offering a Wood Tone option which is available from the Sierra and any model up the line. The wood tone option is our new violin grade maple rim machined to the shape of a rim with tonering so you alleviate any tonering weight and get a beautiful sound similar to the Hartford model but not as costly because on the Wood Tone Option there is no upcharge.
We appreciate the challenge of balancing the weight with the tone. Each of these designs has a slightly different tone, some are better for various styles of music. Each is a high quality banjo in its own right.
I'm sure you can find a light weight banjo from what we make that meets both the sound and weight that you would enjoy for years to come.
You can call Carolina if you have questions about how to best select the right model at 800-845-7791. And our new catalog gives great descriptions of the tone of each banjo. This will be going up onto our website within the next couple of weeks so tune in at www.deeringbanjos.com.
Janet
Edited by - Janet Deering on 11/19/2009 06:34:09
pcfive - Posted - 11/19/2009: 08:27:31
Thanks Janet! I will check out those 4 options at your website. I am so glad you are concerned about women (and anyone else who doesn't happen to be a 6 foot weight lifter!)
I think pretty soon I will be ready to get something more expensive and a bit louder, for jamming, even though I will always love my Goodtime 2.
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