mbagne - Posted - 06/29/2009:  21:34:27

I am new to the banjo (3 weeks), after playing drums for almost 20 years. I have begun by focusing on the right hand with rolls, and with a druming background I have developed good and steady timing. I am getting a good feel for several key rolls and it is now time to focus on the left hand. I do have a beginners instructional DVD (Murphy Method) and I also watch short Youtube instructionals for beginniners.

My issue is that after trying for a few days, it seems almost impossible to get my left hand fingers to fret on the finger board. I am only 5' 4", so I am a small guy . . . but not exactly "kid size", I have small hands and fingers relatively speaking but I would think they are big enough to do the job. Murphy's instructional DVD says to rest the neck of the banjo in the joint between my left thumb and forefinger. But it seems that my fingers need more access to the fingerboard. When my index and middle finger fret, I cannot seem to get my ring finger positioned very well on a higher string . . . I keep touching other strings with my fingers and cannot get a square or firm "touch" as I struggle to reach the correct frets. Then of course the picking sounds terrible when striking a string that is being interfered with.

Will this change with concentrated practice over time or do I need a "kid size" banjo?

Many thanks for your feedback!

mbagne

Richard Dress - Posted - 06/29/2009:  21:52:19

Fretting notes and worse, chords takes a lot of muscle training. No previous experience in fretting? Well, now you have it all to do. Lots of hours doing crampy, uncomfortable stuff. But eventually you will develop a clean touch with your left hand.

On the bright side, your drumming should give you an advantage with the right hand. That's a big advantage.

Edited by - Richard Dress on 06/29/2009 21:53:48

tinkersdam - Posted - 06/29/2009:  22:31:43

Matt,

First off... welcome to the hangout and welcome to a whole new world of pick'n fun.

Regarding the left hand....I'm sure you're hand size is fine. Your problems with fretting chords clean is common to ALL new string instrument players. First....Are you holding the banjo correctly AND using a banjo strap? The neck of the banjo should be pointing up at about a 45 degree angle when in playing position. You should not be using your hand to support the neck or control the banjo. If you're not using a banjo strap, get one. The banjo strap is integral to keeping the banjo in proper playing position whether you're standing or sitting. Having the banjo in the proper position will significantly help your left hand/fingers reach where they need too. Also, some chord shapes require you to either rotate your wrist around the neck in order to reach the necessary strings....this puts the neck of the banjo resting a little more on the inside of the thumb.... OR you may need to move the wrist around further so the neck rests right up on the thumb (definitely needed when a pinkie stretch to a higher fret is needed. During play, the banjo neck just needs to be lightly supported somewhere between the thumb and base of the index finger so your hand can grip the necessary strings, as well as, rotate and slide freely up/down the neck as you play.

In addition, if you've never played a stringed instrument before, getting the left fingers (especially the ring and pinkie) to plop down cleanly on the strings takes a lot of slow practice and patience, patience, patience. You're asking your fingers to work independently while stretching and squeezing in shapes they've never been in before. Start each practice session with some finger stretches and exercises. Stretch the fingers apart as far as they'll go (don't force them) Also, place your hands flat on a table top, stretch apart all the fingers and practice lifting up one finger at a time and tap it on the table....particularly work the ring and pinkies.

Another suggestion is to slow down. Start by just strumming the chord (not doing rolls) while you practice placing your fingers cleanly on the strings. Keep the strum going slowly. Start with an open G chord, then try placing the fingers on the C chord, strum it for 4-8 beats (slow), release the hand back to an open G chord, then back to the C chord etc...keep doing this until you can grab the C chord clean and keep a SLOW steady strum. You'll find your hand cramping up a bit until you build up a little finger strength and learn to 'relax' the hand a little. Initially, you'll apply a 'death grip' on the chord...but this will pass with practice.

Go through this same routine whenever learning a new chord position .... the "D" or second chord shape inversion... is probably the most troublesome...but, practice, practice,.....practice. Once you master the chord changes smoothly while strumming to the beat .....do the same using simple rolls. Just remember to go slow.... reinforce good technique for all playing skills until mastered. Trying to go faster before the skill is mastered just creates frustration, muddled play, and reinforces bad habits & poor technique. It takes time but it really has a big pay-off. Just take the time and enjoy the process.

Hope this helps.

Dee


I can get ''er up to 120.... but any more than that and I''m gonna be roadkill on the bluegrass highway.

Edited by - tinkersdam on 06/29/2009 23:04:01

The KIDD - Posted - 06/30/2009:  00:11:41

Hey Matt,
Im an ole rock drummer my self. (since 68) Do you play trad.or match grip? Ive played trad all my life so I didnt get the benifit of the finger flexibility match grip would have brought. Its different for us I think because the syncopative muscle memory center workin the 2 hands makes them all the more dependent on eachother right from the start. We seem to be much more beat oriented rather than pattern .You"ll find that H ,PO and SL actually mimmic and jazz drummers LH as they often are syncopated on the upbeats and inbetween them as well. (Flams) (Ruffs) etc. If your using any part of your palm on the neck you will limit the movement of your fingers BIGTIME. That forces them to become part of the gripping process and cannot move freely to their targets. Yeah,Dee said it best IMO, sayin the base of your Index and you'll use all points of your thumb for different chords and their inversions. I aint much taller (5'9") so I know whats its like. BUT, I can often stretch a longer fret span than some one with much bigger hands cause Ive been at this a little while..You'll see what I mean as more challenging postions confont you. Not all my students look the same when moving about the neck so you form the positions the best way that allows YOU to get from point A to B. Just try to keep that anchor Dee described in place when workin the 1st 5 frets. The rules change a bit when playin up the neck and especially when ya start frettin the 5th string.
Keep us posted on how your doing.
John

http://www.myspace.com/johnkuhnbluegrass

Edited by - The KIDD on 06/30/2009 00:15:58

Texasbanjo - Posted - 06/30/2009:  05:28:50

Try this: put the fleshy part of your thumb on the back of the neck of the banjo. Arch your wrist over the fretboad (limp wrist arch). Even with small fingers/hands, you should now be able to reach a full 4-finger chord. The arch of the wrist and having the thumb on the neck gives you that extra "length" you need to make chords.

I'm 5'1" and have small hands and I can make those 4-finger chords, so with a little practice, you can, too. Try it, it works for me.

And I agree with the above: wear a strap at all times to help hold up the neck. That will leave your hands/fingers free to make chords, slides, chokes, pulls, etc.

You probably won't be able to make full 4-finger chords clearly and cleanly at first, but take it slow and it'll happen.

Let''s Pick!
Texas Banjo

minstrelmike - Posted - 06/30/2009:  05:53:55

Fretting is just tough at first. I think it's harder than the rolls. it is definitely just as important.

The best practice method, once you can make some actual chords, is strumming. Part of each or some of your practices ought to be strumming chords to songs. You want to develop the left hand with the same sort of emphasis you put on the right hand (you practice rolls all by themselves).

Hang in there.

One other trick is to capo at the 5th fret. Leave the G-string as is. The rolls won't sound correct so don't do that for roll practice, but if you just want to chord thru songs or practice making chords, capoing up high puts the frets closer together.

Some folks think you should just make your hands do the stretch, but in my experience, it's quicker to start making good-sounding stuff on the banjo with whatever works because then you will practice more, the hands will get stronger, and the stretches along with accuracy of placement will become easier.

Mike Moxcey Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html

Tim13 - Posted - 06/30/2009:  07:36:35

I too can attest to how tough it is. I don't know if I had even held any musical instrument, let alone played one before I started with the banjo, so the fretting has been slow and laborious for me. Proper posture, and a strap are good advice. A lot of people, myself included, often times practice while slouching in a comfortable chair, or sitting on the couch. What happens is the banjo is tilted toward you, and you are almost looking down at the head, instead of being behind it, if that makes sense. This position makes it hard to properly fret. With the head of the banjo more parallel to your body, it's easier to reach to fret board. In other words, when you're holding the banjo, the harder it is to see the frets, the easier it is for your left hand to make the chords.

Tim