BigWoolyBanjo - Posted - 05/18/2009:  08:55:32

Hey there,

I'm trying to teach myself the bum-diddy. Right now I'm just running through a few chords to get used to changing chords while doing this new strum. I'm leaving my banjo in G-tuning, so I don't have to re-tune when I go back to bluegrass picking.

My question is: what do you do about chords that sound bad when the 5th string (G) is hit with them? For instance, when I hit the 5th string when I'm playing a "D", it just doesn't sound right.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
-Jeff

john bange - Posted - 05/18/2009:  09:06:21

D,Bm...good time to try drop thumbing...probably not the correct thing to do but I don't like the sound of the open G either. john

tunemakers - Posted - 05/18/2009:  09:23:18

It is what it is. The D chord sounds wrong with the G string drone no matter what style of 5 string you choose to play. And regular Scruggs G tuning is just fine for doing the Bum Ditty. Once you get it smoothed out, it will sound normal and natural to you. I promise.... :-)

 "The man that hath not music in himself and is not moved with concord of sweet sounds is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; Let no man trust him."
               Shakespeare

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/18/2009:  09:33:25

It's as tunemakers says.
The banjo and it's music are different in a lot of ways than "modern" music.
It has it's own unique sounds that you'll get used to as you progress. Forge ahead !

R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you''ll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917

Simon Stacey Watson - Posted - 05/18/2009:  09:44:17

Hi Jeff,

I would second what John says, but feel I have to encourage you to get beyond G. I use it for a few tunes, but it's the tuning I use least compared to A (just capo up a couple of frets), C (drop the fourth string a tone, and raise the second a tone) and D (capo this two frets). C/D will make you go "OOOO AHHH" if you haven't heard it already it and it's dead easy to get back to G. You can enjoy Modal G and A between the two.

......and then there's Cumberland Gap tuning (very flexible), modal tunings (mournful) and a hundred plus other tunings (I'm not exagerating),

Try Old Reuben's Train tuning (you will never find your way back to a Bluegrass tuning from there. Ha, ha!)

You can also fiddle around with the drone and make it fit better by raising or lowering it. Tilden and Young Guns and Miners in Dan Levenson's tab book are good examples of slightly modified tunings.

Simon

harvey - Posted - 05/18/2009:  09:48:25

I agree with the advice so far: just keep going getting that bump dit-ty down smooth. You can worry about how the chords sounds later.

I think you'll find that when you advance a little you will be executing a full strum less often, as you will be playing fewer full chords. Instead, you will more frequently be picking melody notes against the drone of the 5th string. Now, it is useful to know your chords and your fretboard, because you can then find those melody notes more easily.

So strum away -- it's all good practice!

chip arnold - Posted - 05/18/2009:  10:37:05

Don't worry too much about using/learning the other tunings yet. Unless you want to.........in which case I also recommend the C/C (or capoed) D/D tuning. The pitch change from G is to drop the 4th string one whole tone to C and raise the 2nd string ONE HALF tone to C. If you capo G to A or C to D you'll need to raise the 5th string one whole tone to A.

I also recommend that you work on a bumpaditty rather than bumpditty. Sound the 5th string with your thumb after each frail with the finger. Or sound one of the inside strings with the thumb after each frail stroke. Since you've been a fingerpicker, you'll have the tendency to use some movement of your finger or thumb when playing clawhammer. Don't!

Do yourself a huge favor and check out these free videos from two excellent teachers who belong to the Hangout:

http://www.banjohangout.org/myhango....asp?id=7417

http://zeppcountrymusic.com/frameset.htm

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

BigWoolyBanjo - Posted - 05/18/2009:  14:15:57

Thanks guys.
I'll keep plugging away at that bum-ditty for now & worry about what to hit with my thumb when I play a D later.
-Jeff

cooper_543 - Posted - 05/18/2009:  14:46:51

I'm sure much better and much more experienced players will jump in and articulate this better than I can, but I started with the bum-ditty, and I can say that it is really hard trying to go back and throw my thumb on strings other than the 5th. I'm doing it ok, but I'm slow and the rythme gets screwed up when I have to drop too many thumbs. If you don't think you care to learn DT, you can still do a ton of great stuff with the left hand (which I am better at personally than DT), but if you want to use it eventually start early and start often. A great, and free, resource is oldwoodchuck's rocket science banjo. Great TABS and MIDI's, plus a couple videos and very common sense instruction.

chip arnold - Posted - 05/18/2009:  15:14:28

Yes, what cooper said. bumpaditty, bumpaditty. Practice using your thumb after each frail stroke. String sequences could be 1, 5, 1, 5, 1, 5, 1, 5 or 1, 2, 1, 5, 1, 2, 1, 5 or any and every other combination you can think of. Also practice hitting ONE string cleanly on the "dit." If you want to use a brush, practice getting it specific.........brush only two strings and only three strings.........so that you are in control of that right hand. Most clawhammer banjo involves no or almost no brushing. Grandpa Jones and "folk style" frailing uses more.

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 05/18/2009:  16:19:24

Don't worry too much about the clash of the 5th string note. Later when you are playing fast it will hardly be noticed - especially if you are bringing the thumb down against the 5th string at every frail stroke.

The Bum Did-dy is not really basic but is a compound stroke. The basic stroke would be "Bum-dy" Frail-thumb, or frail-hammer, or frail-pulloff, etc.
IT is like the basic bluegrass rolls which dont' leave any "empty" eighth notes. The thing that Bum Did-dy usually leaves out of the story is that the thumb should come down on the 5th or other string with every frail stroke. The Thumb is the actual engine that drives the stroke. The ebook Rocket Science Banjo has a full explanation.

There are videos on the basic stroke on youtube - search for Rocket Science Banjo. Or you can watch them at the website:
www.rocketsciencebanjo.com" target="_blank">http://.www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
and can also download the free Rocket Science Banjo ebook to go with them. See the signature below and read the website for more information.

If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players, at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com

Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes. - which number around 40 now.

Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 05/18/2009:  16:54:52

There will be ocasional chords that the 5th string clashes with so much that you may want to avoid it by dropping the thumb to an inner string. Such as the E chord in Freight Train, for instance. The G 5th string tries to make it an Em chord, while the G# on the third string makes it Emajor. On the other hand, that tension may resolve when you change chords. Tension - resolution is the cornerstone of jazz and blues based music. You can do almost anything if you can resolve it properly. In Freight Train, the E is followed by an F chord-and the 5th string still clashes with that, though not as much. The F becomes almost an F9. With 2 measures of such tension, you're best off to drop that thumb to an inner string on the E chord, and use the tension on the F. It's not as much tension against the F chord, and it resolves to a C chord after the F.
If you try to play all the Clawhammer tunes out of the G tuning, you'll miss out on some of the beautiful, archaic harmonic sounds of old time music. Some tunes can be played in multiple tunings, but really come to life in a certain tuning.And some fall right into your fingers in a certain tuning, while becoming a real knuckle-buster in other tunings. Retuning can be a pain if your jam buddies don't allow time for it. Most OT jams stay in one key for a good while to minimize the retuning for the banjo players. Learn to use some other tunings, you'll be glad you did.
Paul

"A master banjo player isn''t the one who can play the most notes. It''s the one who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=128303 IBARD topic
http://ibard-rendesvous1840.blogspot.com/

Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 05/20/2009 20:20:35

dfwest - Posted - 05/18/2009:  20:57:33

Chords on a banjo? Who knew?

David West

Fort Collins, Colorado

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 05/19/2009:  18:38:17

I forgot to mention that there are a number of tunes played CH style in the G tuning. If you don't want to try a new tuning just yet, learn some of those G songs. Later on, you may want to try other tunings. In fact, I'll bet some tunes in D or A will catch your ear and someday you'll want to learn some of those tunes. It doesn't have to be immediatelywhen you want to branch out, go on ahead.
Paul

"A master banjo player isn''t the one who can play the most notes. It''s the one who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=128303 IBARD topic
http://ibard-rendesvous1840.blogspot.com/

John Gribble - Posted - 05/20/2009:  03:25:39

Play the small D7th. The dissonance is not so noticeable.

John Gribble
Tokyo, Japan

Richard - Posted - 05/20/2009:  06:03:03

I love g tuning as it is so useful for chords - moreso than double c / d tuning. Easy to get different voicings and shapes up the neck. Suits my voice nicely too.
Get on to the other tunings as the need arises, but i reckon if you're getting into playing tunes with others, don't waste your time trying to convert D tunes into G tuning - been there, done that. Use your energy efficiently and retune - someone else has figured out all the hard stuff for you !

Richard

"There is nothing whatsoever that does not become easier with acquaintance" - Santideva

hear my band: http://www.myspace.com/latitudefolkmusic

my own page: http://www.myspace.com/richbanjo

Stop by my homepage and hear my new tunes !

minstrelmike - Posted - 05/20/2009:  06:13:34

Get used to it. Standard songs have 3 chords--the 1-4-5.
You generally tune the 5th string to one of the 3 notes of the 1 chord (G,B,or D for G).
If you tune it to G, it will work for the 1 and 4 chords but not the 5.
If you tune it to B, it only works for the 1 chord
If you tune it to D, it works for the 1 and 5 chords. (This is true of any key).

Don't worry about it because that's just how the songs go on 5-string (picking or frailing).

By the way, instead of trying to learn a new neck and new set of chords by retuning to dbl-C, try just spiking the 5th string up to A and playing in open-G which is also double-D tuning (the 1st and 4th strings).



Mike Moxcey Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html