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Steve922 - Posted - 05/08/2009: 16:49:54
Been playing a couple of weeks now and got the hang of a few basic rolls (Square Roll, Forward-Backward Roll and one involving a pinch) and was kind of wondering how many different Rolls there are.
I suspect the answer is 'lots' but I was wondering if there is kind of a basic 'beginners' set of 6 or something which is thought of as a foundation marking the first step?
Further, how many Rolls would you expect a 'bunch of buddies jam group' to use? And how many would you say a GOOD player learns?
Just casting around here out of interest to get some ball-park numbers.
Steve
Richard Dress - Posted - 05/08/2009: 19:22:41
Steve,
Perhaps 80% of all the standard bluegrass numbers can be done with the square roll and the forward roll.
Someone published a book of 1024 banjo rolls some years ago.
Some good players only use a couple of rolls.
PS: about 80% of all the songs can be played with 2 chords (counting the barre is cheating because it's free).
KI4PRK - Posted - 05/08/2009: 19:23:31
I personally never bothered with learning rolls. I just played whatever notes I wanted to get the rhythm. The only one I never picked up on was the "scruggs roll", or "square roll", instead I just went TITI instead of TITM. Bill Keith told me of my folly at IBMA, and corrected it. I still never pay attention to what rolls I play, I just move my fingers. If the song calls for some syncopation, then I let my fingers do that. If the song calls for more of a solid beat, then I might end up using a lot of alternating-thumb (square) rolls and alternating-middle (Dillard) rolls, but I don't know.
I guess the set of rolls that every beginner "needs" to know is:
Alternating Thumb (square, scruggs, box) TIMI
Forward(s) (straight) TIM
Forward-Backward (Forward-Reverse) TIMTMIT
Backward (Reverse) MIT
You can get by easily in a LOT of songs with just the first 2, but the other two are helpful to know, especially to add spice to a song. There is also a roll also known as the "Tag" roll, or (confusingly) as the Forward-Reverse roll. Some consider it a "seperate" roll, others call it a variation of rolls. In any case, the pattern is IMTIMITM.
Some other rolls:
Alternating Middle (Dillard) MITM
Alternating Index ITIM
Reno (Dixie Breakdown, Inside) TIMI
Technically, the "Reno" roll is the same as the "Alternating Index" roll, it's just that their phase is shifted. In any case, they sound very different from each other.
73, Brennen
Edited by - KI4PRK on 05/13/2009 07:33:13
SandyR - Posted - 05/08/2009: 19:47:57
Regardless of how many rolls there may be, your banjo playing will be richer and more musical if you think about playing melody and variations, and let the left hand determine what you do with the right. The result of that will be that you'll have innumerable bits & pieces of patterns & rolls, all chosen specifically and perhaps never the same, that you'll be using to express what you wish. From that perspective, these set patterns (rolls) are useful now but eventually rather peripheral to your never-ending journey playing the banjo!
stuwall - Posted - 05/10/2009: 01:19:48
I am still a beginner but I spent the first few weeks just practicing the Alternating, the Forward/Backward, the Forward & the FMB Roll & only then started fretting as the open G tuning is a nice sound to just play...now I'm learning much more & the key to most of the bluegrass tunes seems involve playing a mixture of Melodic and Scruggs styles...seems to be that way in the tunes I'm learning anyway & it does mean your not getting bogged down & restricted to a single style...
AD3AD3AD3 - Posted - 05/10/2009: 07:12:44
I'm thinking there are maybe five basic rolls. But there are all manner of variations on them and some additional (pretty much esoteric rolls.) The reality is that you'll use the the forward roll and the forward backward roll and the alternating thumb roll for most of the bluegrass you play but after a while you'll find yourself using bits and pieces to make the music sound right - whatever fits to provide melody and rythm'
AD3
minstrelmike - Posted - 05/10/2009: 09:30:45
How many different rolls there are depends on how _you_ think about them.
At first, when learning by tab or teacher or dvd, it seems that even which string you hit matters so a back and forth titm starting on the 3rd string is different from one starting on the 4th string. Eventually, you abstract the finger pattern regardless of roll.
I would say there are 4, maybe 5 rolls also, but that requires a few additional levels of abstraction.
In some respects, there are 3 forward rolls depending on where you put the TM.
1: TM TIM TIM 2: TIM TM TIM 3: TIM TIM TM
Some people teach the different rolls; some people think the roll is different if you add a pause T* or a TI instead of a TM.
Others say there is a separate FMB (Foggy Mtn Breakdown) roll which starts the song off:
IM TM TIMT
however, you start the song off with two of those: IM TM TIMT | IM TM TIMT
which breaks down to a fwd roll starting in the middle:
IM > TM TIM T|IM TM < TIM T
Starting off with the Index instead of a Thumb leads to whole different set of dynamics. Whether it is a different roll is up to you.
PRACTICING ROLLS
As far as practicing rolls, I would be leery of practicing them independent of chord changes. You need to be able to put the left hand down and not stop the right from its thing (which is one reason I start by strumming songs because that's often the problem people think they have with their 'roll' when it isn't a right hand issue at all).
So if you're going to practice rolls independent of songs, then I'd say you want to focus on two things. One is changing chords between rolls and then within rolls while keeping the roll even. The other is making the rolls even with each other. To practice that in G tuning, fret the 1st string 5th fret, 2nd string 8th fret and just pick the 1st, 2nd and 5th strings (which are all the same G note now). You shouldn't hear any variation between doing a square (back and forth or alternating thumb) roll and a forward and a reverse roll.
USING ROLLS.
There are two ways to learn to use rolls in a song. One is to copy existing arrangements from lessons or mp3s. The other is to learn melody and then apply the rolls yourself. When copying an arrangement, you learn how to play a single version of the song and then you have to look at the rolls and see how they are used (The second step is optional but it is what lads you to understanding).
To practice using rolls yourself, figure out the melody to a tune (or read sheet music or buy Wernick's Bluegrass songbook with melody tabbed out for you) and then play thru the tune using each roll (whatever you define as each) to play the whole song. Some work better than others on certain songs. Then you can see how the rolls are used to play melody. Combine the best measures from each roll for a fancy arrangement if you wish.
I get by pretty much with the forward and alternating thumb (back and forth) but I think any player ought to learn all of them and a good player can pick whatever note wants whether he's thinking roll or not. As far as playing with others, the roll is irrelevant. Making the others sound good in the context of the song is the goal.
I have basic on rolls and melodies here:
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/spe...l/index.html
pickinNAgrinin - Posted - 05/10/2009: 10:00:21
What I've been finding in my few months is that practicing 5-6 rolls each day has helped me get what I need for the songs I've been learning. I've gotten the 5-6 rolls previously mentioned here up to about 120-130 bpm cleanly. When I start learning a song, it usually doesn't say "use the ____ roll here". Usually the song has incorporated some roll patterns here and there. When I start playing the song, it's the LEFT hand that limits my play and gets all the focus. Practicing the rolls each day allows me to not have to focus on right hand as much when learning a song, the right fingers just do what it takes while I work the fretting over and over. Of course I mess up a lot.
New folks - don't you hate it when your left hand frets the 4th string at the top of the neck, but your thumb strikes the 5th string because it thinks the top string down there is the 4th string also. Nothing like picking the 5th string and hammering on the 4th. I do that over and over again.
custom15player - Posted - 05/10/2009: 10:59:29
Don't worry about rolls so much and learn the licks Earl used. THere is a small and finite number of rolls you will use regularly. IMHO I think the FMB roll is the most useful, especially when working up the neck when you are beginning to learn. LEarn the tag lick perfectly becuase you will use it many times in every tune you start out with.
The FMB roll was broken down into 3 sections and I don't agree with that. Play 8 note patterns when you are starting out. I do agree with the importance of using the thumb for more drive. Make sure when starting out you make sure the time between each note is exactly the same. Only play as fast as you can play your hardest part perfectly.
It''s great to be a Florida Gator!
Steve922 - Posted - 05/10/2009: 13:27:28
quote:
Originally posted by custom15player
...LEarn the tag lick perfectly...
Thanks for the advice. But what is the 'tag lick' ?
Steve
Brian T - Posted - 05/12/2009: 11:43:21
To me, a tag is a little bit, a couple of measures, at the end. In this is some clever LH work to go with the RH to polish off the tune.
One example would be the last few measures of Doug Dillard's "Banjo In The Hollow". It's a melodic thing, unlike the entire rest of the tune (see & hear in the BHO TAB section). Sounds great if I can get the timing correct.
Everybody jump on me if this isn't true:
Besides a half dozen or more useful RH finger patterns, the other issue seperate and apart from that, is which notes/strings are used in that finger pattern. I'm concentrating on the variety of fingerings, changing chords and not being too concerned about which notes come out.
I'm hard of thinking some times. Rolls have two seperate parts?
We do not know where we are going.
Nor do most of us care.
For us, it is enough that we are on our way.
Le Matelot
jitaylor - Posted - 05/12/2009: 12:00:39
Yeah, what is a tag lick?
Banjoman - Posted - 05/12/2009: 12:26:00
Let's see...Three fingers, five strings and 8 q notes per 4/4 mesure. My guess is a WHOLE LOT of them.
Hugh
Picking since 1964
“...Bobby Thompson? He is the future! He has this whole new style-you can hear the melody! ''Hard Hearted'' ''Dixie Hoedown!'' Oh my!”--- John Updike
Click Here: Banjo Hangout Rules & Guidelines.
Click Here: Bobby Thompson''s Home Page
Charley wild - Posted - 05/12/2009: 13:49:41
quote:
Originally posted by RB-1
I'm 150% with Sandy on this one here. (this here one?
)
RB-1 plays with Half A Turn & Heartstrings
http://www.halfaturn.nl
http://home.hccnet.nl/e.beurskens/S...tstrings.htm
I agree with Sandy also. A very well put description of Scruggs style banjo! I'd never thought of it that way but a good lot of my playing consists of "bits and pieces" of rolls. You have to be ready for anything at any time and a lot of the time a full roll just won't fit!
"Insanity is defined as re-doubling your efforts thinking the result is going to be different."
Albert Einstein
Edited by - Charley wild on 05/12/2009 13:51:30
Brian T - Posted - 05/12/2009: 13:52:07
Like I might have said, tag licks are endings which (to me) are clever runs of notes to finish a tune. Both Ross Nickerson and Tony Trischka have pages of them.
I've learned a few. What is satisfying is to try to use them if/when I work on a tune and I don't like the existing tag ending.
We do not know where we are going.
Nor do most of us care.
For us, it is enough that we are on our way.
Le Matelot
rvrose - Posted - 05/12/2009: 20:34:04
I like the dinner roll. 
Matthew Wyatt - Posted - 05/12/2009: 21:48:25
The greatest part about bluegrass music, or playing the banjo in general, is it is an "off the cuff feel". Scruggs played the same song thousands of different ways. My personal favorite roll is the Alternating thumb roll. TITM. Don't really know why, just took a likin to it
Matt
Songs of yesterday, Played my way
Steve922 - Posted - 05/13/2009: 01:13:01
quote:
Originally posted by Brian T
Like I might have said, tag licks are endings which (to me) are clever runs of notes to finish a tune. Both Ross Nickerson and Tony Trischka have pages of them.
Can you point me to these pages? I've browsed the 'Lessons' sections but couldn't see them there.
Steve
cottontop - Posted - 05/13/2009: 03:57:32
quote:
Originally posted by KI4PRK
I personally never bothered with learning rolls. I just played whatever notes I wanted to get the rhythm. The only one I never picked up on was the "scruggs roll", or "square roll", instead I just went TITI instead of TIMI. Bill Keith told me of my folly at IBMA, and corrected it. I still never pay attention to what rolls I play, I just move my fingers. If the song calls for some syncopation, then I let my fingers do that. If the song calls for more of a solid beat, then I might end up using a lot of alternating-thumb (square) rolls and alternating-middle (Dillard) rolls, but I don't know.
I guess the set of rolls that every beginner "needs" to know is:
Alternating Thumb (square, scruggs, box) TIMI
Forward(s) (straight) TIM
Forward-Backward (Forward-Reverse) TIMTMIT
Backward (Reverse) MIT
You can get by easily in a LOT of songs with just the first 2, but the other two are helpful to know, especially to add spice to a song. There is also a roll also known as the "Tag" roll, or (confusingly) as the Forward-Reverse roll. Some consider it a "seperate" roll, others call it a variation of rolls. In any case, the pattern is IMTIMITM.
Some other rolls:
Alternating Middle (Dillard) MITM
Alternating Index ITIM
Reno (Dixie Breakdown, Inside) TIMI
Technically, the "Reno" roll is the same as the "Alternating Index" roll, it's just that their phase is shifted. In any case, they sound very different from each other.
73, Brennen
I agree w/ Brennen. I just play and don't worry about what rolls I am playing. However, I did concentrate on just learning the rolls in the beginning, but now I don't think about them. AND, I hate using the "drop" thumb and I hate using the index finger of the right hand on the 3rd string. So there !
cottontop
KI4PRK - Posted - 05/13/2009: 07:44:45
quote:
Originally posted by cottontop
quote:
Originally posted by KI4PRK
I personally never bothered with learning rolls. I just played whatever notes I wanted to get the rhythm. The only one I never picked up on was the "scruggs roll", or "square roll", instead I just went TITI instead of TIMI. Bill Keith told me of my folly at IBMA, and corrected it. I still never pay attention to what rolls I play, I just move my fingers. If the song calls for some syncopation, then I let my fingers do that. If the song calls for more of a solid beat, then I might end up using a lot of alternating-thumb (square) rolls and alternating-middle (Dillard) rolls, but I don't know.
I guess the set of rolls that every beginner "needs" to know is:
Alternating Thumb (square, scruggs, box) TIMI
Forward(s) (straight) TIM
Forward-Backward (Forward-Reverse) TIMTMIT
Backward (Reverse) MIT
You can get by easily in a LOT of songs with just the first 2, but the other two are helpful to know, especially to add spice to a song. There is also a roll also known as the "Tag" roll, or (confusingly) as the Forward-Reverse roll. Some consider it a "seperate" roll, others call it a variation of rolls. In any case, the pattern is IMTIMITM.
Some other rolls:
Alternating Middle (Dillard) MITM
Alternating Index ITIM
Reno (Dixie Breakdown, Inside) TIMI
Technically, the "Reno" roll is the same as the "Alternating Index" roll, it's just that their phase is shifted. In any case, they sound very different from each other.
73, Brennen
I agree w/ Brennen. I just play and don't worry about what rolls I am playing. However, I did concentrate on just learning the rolls in the beginning, but now I don't think about them. AND, I hate using the "drop" thumb and I hate using the index finger of the right hand on the 3rd string. So there !
cottontop
I use the index on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th strings. I've used it on the 1st string when doing single string, and - yes - the 5th string in one single string lick I occasionally use.
I use a LOT of inside rolls, which no doubt is a Don Reno influence as I listen to him more than any other banjo picker. Example, I was playing Ground Speed the other day and I realized that I was going through the entire 2nd part without using the 5th string, as well as one variation using some double stops on the 1st part without using the 5th. So I "drop thumb" (to use the clawhammer term) a lot. Very useful once you get into songs with a lot of chords.
I usually replace the TITM roll with the TIMI roll, for example, when inside rolling. I have 2 or 3 inside variations on the scruggs tag lick. Throw in some inside forward rolls and you have most of what you need for reducing your dependency on the 5th string.
Now that's not to say I have something against the 5th string; You got 5 strings, why not use all of them? It's just that there are situations where you're gonna need to fall off that 5th string and drop down inside. I made a point of learning at least 3 different instrumentals (Dill Pickle Rag, Silver Bells, and Red Wing) on just the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string should I ever be on stage or jamming and I break the 1st (the most commonly broken string), the 5th, or both. Should I ever lose a finger pick as well as breaking those 2 strings, I can make it through Dill Pickle Rag and Red Wing with just 2 fingers (though it sounds better with 3).
73, Brennen
cottontop - Posted - 05/13/2009: 08:06:26
I even like to "double thumb" the fifth sring once in a while ah la John Hartford (my hero). I don't see (or hear) many other banjo pickers doing that. And, not only do I hate drop thumb and 3rd and 4th string index finger picking, I refuse to do it. As you can see, I am not a Scruggs purist.
cottontop
RB-1 - Posted - 05/13/2009: 08:45:47
Many times, while listening to beginning players, I had this feeling of ' there's something not right, but I can't say what.'
Got beyond that point long ago, now I know.
They're playing contained always 8 notes per measure.
All notes where equally loud and all exactly played 'in the grid'
This kills all musical expression and gives a kind of 'robotic' feel to the sound.
Playing notes with longer duration, slightly before or after the beat and/or emphasizing -volume wise-, are the tools to turn banjo sound into music.
That's exactly what Scruggs has taught us....
RB-1 plays with Half A Turn & Heartstrings
http://www.halfaturn.nl
http://home.hccnet.nl/e.beurskens/S...tstrings.htm
Brian T - Posted - 05/13/2009: 11:22:35
Tags & Kickoffs: Apologies. I was referring to a couple of darn good reference books:
Ross Nickerson: Banjo Encyclopedia
Tony Trischka: Hot Licks for Bluegrass Banjo
The really scary part is that the tags that I play, that I like,I can't remember what tunes they came from!
We do not know where we are going.
Nor do most of us care.
For us, it is enough that we are on our way.
Le Matelot
Old Man - Posted - 05/13/2009: 14:04:45
When in doubt check Earl's Book.I believe he set the standard.
thetexan - Posted - 05/14/2009: 07:33:30
There are basic roll patterns that everyone learns and should know. However, when you become accomplished at the banjo you wont so much think in terms of rolls anymore. You will be able to manuveur your right hand fingers in just about any pattern you want, at will, and not think about it.
The standard roll patterns most of us learn set the foundation for this ability.
Rolls are like numbers. Give me the highest number you can think of and I can give you one more.
tex
Banjo Island - Posted - 05/14/2009: 09:04:37
quote:
Originally posted by Banjoman
Let's see...Three fingers, five strings and 8 q notes per 4/4 mesure. My guess is a WHOLE LOT of them.
Hugh
Picking since 1964
Using this method, the answer is, of course, 69,954 - counting all the different string combinations which don't break the "rules" of 3-finger. There are a few samples of bits of this list in my blog archive if anyone really cares!
Alternatively you could look at right-hand finger combinations, which gives you a mere 258.
1: TITITITI
2: TITITITM
3: TITITIMI
4: TITITMTI
5: TITITMTM
6: TITITMIM
7: TITIMTIM
8: TITIMTMI
9: TITIMITI
10: TITIMITM
11: TITIMIMI
12: TITMTITI
13: TITMTITM
14: TITMTIMI
15: TITMTMTI
16: TITMTMTM
17: TITMTMIM
18: TITMITIM
19: TITMITMI
20: TITMIMTI
21: TITMIMTM
22: TITMIMIM
23: TIMTITIM
24: TIMTITMI
25: TIMTIMTI
26: TIMTIMTM
27: TIMTIMIM
28: TIMTMTIM
29: TIMTMTMI
30: TIMTMITI
31: TIMTMITM
32: TIMTMIMI
33: TIMITITI
34: TIMITITM
35: TIMITIMI
36: TIMITMTI
37: TIMITMTM
38: TIMITMIM
39: TIMIMTIM
40: TIMIMTMI
41: TIMIMITI
42: TIMIMITM
43: TIMIMIMI
44: TMTITITI
45: TMTITITM
46: TMTITIMI
47: TMTITMTI
48: TMTITMTM
49: TMTITMIM
50: TMTIMTIM
51: TMTIMTMI
52: TMTIMITI
53: TMTIMITM
54: TMTIMIMI
55: TMTMTITI
56: TMTMTITM
57: TMTMTIMI
58: TMTMTMTI
59: TMTMTMTM
60: TMTMTMIM
61: TMTMITIM
62: TMTMITMI
63: TMTMIMTI
64: TMTMIMTM
65: TMTMIMIM
66: TMITITIM
67: TMITITMI
68: TMITIMTI
69: TMITIMTM
70: TMITIMIM
71: TMITMTIM
72: TMITMTMI
73: TMITMITI
74: TMITMITM
75: TMITMIMI
76: TMIMTITI
77: TMIMTITM
78: TMIMTIMI
79: TMIMTMTI
80: TMIMTMTM
81: TMIMTMIM
82: TMIMITIM
83: TMIMITMI
84: TMIMIMTI
85: TMIMIMTM
86: TMIMIMIM
87: ITITITIT
88: ITITITIM
89: ITITITMT
90: ITITIMTM
91: ITITIMIT
92: ITITIMIM
93: ITITMTIT
94: ITITMTIM
95: ITITMTMT
96: ITITMITM
97: ITITMIMT
98: ITIMTITM
99: ITIMTIMT
100: ITIMTMTM
101: ITIMTMIT
102: ITIMTMIM
103: ITIMITIT
104: ITIMITIM
105: ITIMITMT
106: ITIMIMTM
107: ITIMIMIT
108: ITIMIMIM
109: ITMTITIT
110: ITMTITIM
111: ITMTITMT
112: ITMTIMTM
113: ITMTIMIT
114: ITMTIMIM
115: ITMTMTIT
116: ITMTMTIM
117: ITMTMTMT
118: ITMTMITM
119: ITMTMIMT
120: ITMITITM
121: ITMITIMT
122: ITMITMTM
123: ITMITMIT
124: ITMITMIM
125: ITMIMTIT
126: ITMIMTIM
127: ITMIMTMT
128: ITMIMITM
129: ITMIMIMT
130: IMTITITM
131: IMTITIMT
132: IMTITMTM
133: IMTITMIT
134: IMTITMIM
135: IMTIMTIT
136: IMTIMTIM
137: IMTIMTMT
138: IMTIMITM
139: IMTIMIMT
140: IMTMTITM
141: IMTMTIMT
142: IMTMTMTM
143: IMTMTMIT
144: IMTMTMIM
145: IMTMITIT
146: IMTMITIM
147: IMTMITMT
148: IMTMIMTM
149: IMTMIMIT
150: IMTMIMIM
151: IMITITIT
152: IMITITIM
153: IMITITMT
154: IMITIMTM
155: IMITIMIT
156: IMITIMIM
157: IMITMTIT
158: IMITMTIM
159: IMITMTMT
160: IMITMITM
161: IMITMIMT
162: IMIMTITM
163: IMIMTIMT
164: IMIMTMTM
165: IMIMTMIT
166: IMIMTMIM
167: IMIMITIT
168: IMIMITIM
169: IMIMITMT
170: IMIMIMTM
171: IMIMIMIT
172: IMIMIMIM
173: MTITITIT
174: MTITITMT
175: MTITITMI
176: MTITIMTI
177: MTITIMIT
178: MTITMTIT
179: MTITMTMT
180: MTITMTMI
181: MTITMITI
182: MTITMIMT
183: MTITMIMI
184: MTIMTITI
185: MTIMTIMT
186: MTIMTIMI
187: MTIMTMTI
188: MTIMTMIT
189: MTIMITIT
190: MTIMITMT
191: MTIMITMI
192: MTIMIMTI
193: MTIMIMIT
194: MTMTITIT
195: MTMTITMT
196: MTMTITMI
197: MTMTIMTI
198: MTMTIMIT
199: MTMTMTIT
200: MTMTMTMT
201: MTMTMTMI
202: MTMTMITI
203: MTMTMIMT
204: MTMTMIMI
205: MTMITITI
206: MTMITIMT
207: MTMITIMI
208: MTMITMTI
209: MTMITMIT
210: MTMIMTIT
211: MTMIMTMT
212: MTMIMTMI
213: MTMIMITI
214: MTMIMIMT
215: MTMIMIMI
216: MITITITI
217: MITITIMT
218: MITITIMI
219: MITITMTI
220: MITITMIT
221: MITIMTIT
222: MITIMTMT
223: MITIMTMI
224: MITIMITI
225: MITIMIMT
226: MITIMIMI
227: MITMTITI
228: MITMTIMT
229: MITMTIMI
230: MITMTMTI
231: MITMTMIT
232: MITMITIT
233: MITMITMT
234: MITMITMI
235: MITMIMTI
236: MITMIMIT
237: MIMTITIT
238: MIMTITMT
239: MIMTITMI
240: MIMTIMTI
241: MIMTIMIT
242: MIMTMTIT
243: MIMTMTMT
244: MIMTMTMI
245: MIMTMITI
246: MIMTMIMT
247: MIMTMIMI
248: MIMITITI
249: MIMITIMT
250: MIMITIMI
251: MIMITMTI
252: MIMITMIT
253: MIMIMTIT
254: MIMIMTMT
255: MIMIMTMI
256: MIMIMITI
257: MIMIMIMT
258: MIMIMIMI
Alternatively again, we could just agree that this is very silly and go and practice playing some
useful stuff instead...
Jer
Banjo Island
http://www.ukbluegrass.com
KI4PRK - Posted - 05/14/2009: 09:28:39
What happens if you DO break the "rules" of 3-finger? E.g. picking the same string twice in a row, or putting the index below the thumb, both of which I do all the time? I'll bet 69,954 would seem rather small in comparison
73, Brennen
Edited by - KI4PRK on 05/14/2009 09:30:32
cottontop - Posted - 05/14/2009: 09:41:09
quote:
Originally posted by KI4PRK
What happens if you DO break the "rules" of 3-finger? E.g. picking the same string twice in a row, or putting the index below the thumb, both of which I do all the time? I'll bet 69,954 would seem rather small in comparison
73, Brennen
I break the rules all the time and the only thing that happens is that I play the song my way, in my style, and not like anyone else.
cottontop
Richard Dress - Posted - 05/14/2009: 09:55:47
Brennen,
Wow! That would probably make it a million rolls. That's a lot of memorizing.
Someone should compose a instrumental that uses a million rolls and a thousand chords. Wouldn't that be the ultimate and best-sounding banjo instrumental ever?
73, RD
Chris Quinn - Posted - 05/14/2009: 09:59:54
I equate banjo picking rolls with grammar for a second language. When learning a second language, you initially need to practice proper structure in order to allow you the freedom to express yourself at a certain level. A little grammar, or a few rolls, will allow you some freedom to express yourself. With communicative practice, you will think less and less about structure and more about being expressive. In English, one should learn and practice basic verb tenses before trying to use the perfect tenses. In banjo, learn your square rolls, FMB roll, forward rolls before you try to leap into the land of Bela.
Eventually, you will no longer be thinking about grammar when you speak, or rolls when you play. You will simply express your thoughts.
And, I agree with Sandy Rothman's thoughts too.
Chris Quinn
www.foggyhogtownboys.com
thetexan - Posted - 05/14/2009: 11:08:44
That #104, that's a new one on me. Im gonna have to learn that one!
Matthew Wyatt - Posted - 05/15/2009: 12:10:15
I agree with Cottontop, the best thing for me is to learn to play the song my, and in my own style. I still use three fingers and a five string banjo, and it sounds pretty good to my ears. And who knows you might develop a style that somebody else wants to copy.
Matt
Songs of Yesterday, Played my Way
custom15player - Posted - 05/16/2009: 10:58:44
I have not looked at this thread in a while but a tag lick, as described by Murphy when I was taking lessons from her, is
open 3-1-5 then slide from 2-3 on the 3rd and play 1st string when the slide gets to 3 then 3 - 4@2- 1-3.
I use it all the time in almost every G tune.
It''s great to be a Florida Gator!
Edited by - custom15player on 05/16/2009 11:00:08
milby - Posted - 05/16/2009: 11:15:18
What is a FMB roll?
Brian T - Posted - 05/16/2009: 11:21:30
Double picking a string? Lots of it in the roll exercises in Nickerson's Banjo Encyclopedia. T on 2 and I on 3? Ditto. Sure, where could it say you can't?
And I always thought that dogma was something to be avoided when mowing the lawn.
We do not know where we are going.
Nor do most of us care.
For us, it is enough that we are on our way.
Le Matelot
custom15player - Posted - 05/17/2009: 14:03:46
quote:
Originally posted by milby
What is a FMB roll.
2-1-2-1 5-2-1-5 with right hand going I-M-T-M -T-I -M-T
THe thumb on the 2nd string is crucial - Do not use your index for the 3rd note (2nd string). Your thumb plays harder and created the drive needed for Blue Grass banjo
It''s great to be a Florida Gator!
If you can catch more flies with honey why do outfielders wear gloves?
Edited by - custom15player on 05/17/2009 14:05:09
Ira Gitlin - Posted - 05/18/2009: 13:51:52
Personally, I think it's a mistake to regard "roll" as equivalent to "measure consisting of 8 eighth notes". Some rolls can usefully be viewed that way (e.g., forward-backward, or TIMTMITM), while some can more profitably thought of as four-note patterns (e.g., TITM). Forward roll, I feel , should be seen as a mighty river without an end, from whose waters we take whatever small portion we need for the task at hand.
Edited by - Ira Gitlin on 05/18/2009 13:55:11
