PZBarber - Posted - 05/07/2009:  02:47:46

I was at my lesson a few weeks ago and my teacher asks me to play the couple of tunes he set me to learn over the past week.

"I can do it with the TAB" I said.

"Go on then, show me what you can do" says John.

So off I go with 8 more miles to Louisville, TAB in front of me. I played a clean version with no mistakes and I was quite happy with my performance.

"Right then, now play it without the TAB" says John.

So off I go again, only this time I play like I've never seen a banjo before!

My teacher then says that he wants to prove a point about something he calls 'coffee cup syndrome'.

He set a cup infront of me and told me to concentrate on the cup whilst playing the tune.

Off I went again, only this time my rendition was clean and mistake free.

He takes the cup away and I play the tune badly again!!!

He went on to explain that I wasn't necessarily reading the TAB but was just concentrating on something so my mind didn't wander.

I sat back, relaxed a little and played again whilst looking at my left hand and other things in the room. I was just enjoying playing without thinking about what I was doing or concentrating on any one thing.

I guess he was trying to prove that I really did know what to play and where but was using the TAB (coffee cup) as a tool to help me concentrate. It is quite amazing how much of a tune you can pick up in a short time and commit it to memory. I suppose this boils down to getting rid of the TAB as quickly as possible and 'playing by ear' as much as possible.

The small list of songs that I know are now played so much smoother, faster and with more feeling now I have dropped the crutches.

Beginners I recommend you try it for yourself, I think you'll be surprised at how much you actually do know from memory.

Don't substitute the TAB or coffee cup with a copy of Playboy tho as that doesn't work well at all.

Weird

Cheers

Mat

Pjotor - Posted - 05/07/2009:  04:18:59

Did you try the Playboy thing...?

Joke aside, thanks for sharing. I too play better when I lose the tab. I may not play exactly as the tab says, but that's not my main focus.

johnboyrox - Posted - 05/07/2009:  05:00:03

That is actually very helpful. I know your point was to over come this tendency, but I have a very bad wondering mind, maybe I should try to develop "coffee cup syndrome" :-)

bikebum - Posted - 05/07/2009:  05:11:58

That make sense to me. I found out years ago that when I play something over and over that I would sorta zone out and start thinking about other things. I'd completely forget about the tab and could play on autopilot.

nula - Posted - 05/07/2009:  06:39:08

I tried it last night with...a couple of large whiskeys...hic...hic...it worked...hic...

______________________________________
“That’s not the cat, dear. It’s my forward roll...”

Cornflake - Posted - 05/07/2009:  07:59:53

Great insight! Your teacher gets 5 gold stars.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It takes a village to tune a banjo

dhergert - Posted - 05/07/2009:  08:01:28

As you're going through tab-separation, also try *not* watching either your right or left hand... This is especially helpful in a band or in a jam, where watching the body language of the people you are playing with will help you keep tempo and rhythm better. Sometimes if something distracting is going on, I'll even close my eyes to help concentrate. It also helps. Your hands know very well how to find out where they are and what to do without having to watch them.

Best,

-- Don
http://www.youtube.com/user/dh5string
http://home.att.net/~dhergert
http://mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don''t wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

Edited by - dhergert on 05/07/2009 08:01:53

The KIDD - Posted - 05/07/2009:  08:01:45

Hey Mat,
Brother thats GREAT NEWS! (luv these storys.). Yeah , I have several "tricks" up my sleeve for my "subjects". I talk to them about weather, up coming fests , jams, etc. It aggrivates them but Im recording them with out them knowing it so I have proof their playin is more accurate and better defined during the "process" ... I also make them read my "accessories for sale" menu on the wall. Yep, the old muscle memory does NOT need any help from the concious mind. Let the LH (ear) and RH muscle mem do all the work. Leave the "thinkin" to the weather...

http://www.myspace.com/johnkuhnbluegrass

KI4PRK - Posted - 05/07/2009:  08:02:46

I like concentrating on looking friendly and like I'm having fun. Incredible picker that Earl was, he was not the most interesting picker to watch from a non-technical point of view!
That serves the dual purpose of benefiting your stage presence and helping your picking. Smiling, moving, doing little dances, yelling out "take it away now, [insert name here]!", etc.

73, Brennen

Rich Weill - Posted - 05/07/2009:  08:11:48

It may not be so much that the coffee cup allowed you to "concentrate on something" so your "mind didn't wander" in a general sense. It may be more that you didn't need to concentrate at all. That the coffee cup distracted your mind from thinking about your playing -- from entertaining a lot of confusing thoughts that would have interfered with your playing. In other words, it kept your mind from wandering in one specific direction: thinking about what you were trying to do.

I wonder if focusing on what other players are doing in a jam works as well. Or just having a conversation while you play.

Joe Larson - Posted - 05/07/2009:  10:59:01

We've discussed on other threads how you mind can get in the way of your playing, as if your hands know what to do but your brain gets nosy and wants to see what's going on and can mess you up. Maybe this is a way of keeping your mind occupied.

j

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user...&view=videos
I''d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

newbieonthebanjo - Posted - 05/07/2009:  12:04:25

This is very interesting- thanks for posting! The tune I'm learning now has a lot of repetition to it, and I memorized it awhile ago, but I often mess-it up because my mind wanders off. I'll try this for sure. Thanks for that!

Aubrey Luke - Posted - 05/08/2009:  04:52:45

That is amazing. I tried it and flew right through three songs I've been working on for the last several weeks. No mistakes and with a significant speed increase.

Thanks!.

joeblueg - Posted - 05/08/2009:  04:56:41

I have to add an amazing here also.. It works.

Banjo picking, I will get it sooner or later but, I''m having the time of my life learning.

Grumps - Posted - 05/08/2009:  05:22:48

& I thought it had only happened to me! definitely a learner on the banjo, 'can 'perform' much better on my keyboard (with electronic help!) & last year was astounded that I had been reading an article in an adjacent book whilst still playing. A wrong note would have been noted because I always hear 'em (& often play 'em) Total mechanical finger memory! & repetition the answer. EdwinT (Grumps)

Edited by - Grumps on 09/25/2009 03:34:29

tanglefingers - Posted - 05/08/2009:  19:52:52

I have visions of a host of talented new banjo players hitting the scene, all with little stands with their "lucky cup" on stage....
I read a members blog here the other day he was using the elephant and mahut analogy of brain function, your subconscious being the elephant and your conscious being the rider... Once you train your elephant to do his task the rider is mearly there to show the way and say when its time to stop work. at some stage you have to stop telling the elephant how to do his job, direct him to where the song list is, and let him play your banjo





We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can''t bomb it onto PEACE.
Micheal Franti.

Edited by - tanglefingers on 05/08/2009 19:54:52

wannabepicker - Posted - 05/08/2009:  20:44:50

That is a heck of an interesting theory.

—————————————————
Ability to play the banjo soon places one in a social position to pick and choose from scores of social invitations. Everywhere, the banjoist is assured of a hearty welcome.
- from THE BANJO, 1927 pamphlet published by Gibson, Inc.

saphine - Posted - 05/09/2009:  04:29:14

Funny..same thing I discovered last night. Doing my usual run thru looking at tab sheet when yougest boy came in to ask the usual question "can i go on the computer" and there was I telling him no (again..his room still not tidy) and lo and behold I was pickin away without any twangers and not looking at the tabs. Am only a beginner but feeling like one day I'll be a real banjo player..yee ha!

MitchellB - Posted - 08/30/2009:  08:28:20

Something I learned that is similar was that if I concentrate on trying to play a song in a correct repetition of what I have learned or played previously without mistake, I will inevitably make a mistake. On the other hand, if I allow myself to feel the music and not think about what I am going to play, it will (usually) come out great or at least better than usual. I like to think of it as, my fingers know how to play if my mind does not get in the way. Notes come to fast to think about it; you just got to do it. I try to concentrate on blending in with the group, listening to the lead (singer or picker) and fill in the holes between the phrasing.

Mitchell

g3zdm - Posted - 08/30/2009:  14:32:07

Well done, Mat. Breaking free from tab is an important move.
Give my regards to John Dowling next time you see him (I'm assuming that it was he who came up with the idea for you)

Chris Muriel
Manchester, UK

BvilleDon - Posted - 08/30/2009:  21:35:24

Due to brain damage as the result of a stroke, I have a really difficult time learning new songs. The ones I learned 40 years ago, no problem. I am getting a little better, as I was able to remember all my post stroke songs after a doctor enforced two week vacation from picking. The thing that I was noticing BEFORE I had to put the banjo down for a while is that I would be going through a tab and get lost in the music, sometimes for quite a while and I had no trouble with the song, until i realized i was winging it!

Yesterday was the first day I was allowed to pick again. The trouble i had on my post stroke songs is that i had really worked hard on some of them, with different up the neck breaks and switching from Scruggs to melodic and back. I had gotten pretty good for the likes of me. But when i would come to a point where I had to make a decision about which way to go, I would just freeze in my tracks, decide, and be on my way again. I felt like a performer who knew trhe material but did not mentally prepare before a show. All of the tunes that i had enough work in to have several breaks and styles of picking i had worked so hard on them that before my enforced vacation from the banjo, I could make decisions on the fly. I would sure hate to freeze up like that in front of others!

ac5aa - Posted - 08/31/2009:  11:42:41

I've found the same thing when I attempt to play "out" as opposed to sitting around the house. It dawned on me it was the distractions, along with a case of nerves. So, if I just pick something to look at while playing (something like a chair or immovable object - not a person!), then I can concentrate. Now, on songs I know really well, I don't need to do that so much, but on ones that require that "something extra" to play well, the concentration, or "coffee cup" works well. I'm hoping some day to get to the point where I can just look at the crowd and smile, but I'm not there yet.

Duane C.
Sullivan Greenbrier, Gibson RB-250

noofus - Posted - 08/31/2009:  11:52:47

Technically your concious mind is too "slow" to play music. Sure you need your concious mind to learn a new song, but once its in your head, you cant play it by thinking about each note as it comes. Thats what you are trying to do as you read from tab.

When I am practicing I am usually inadvertantly looking around. Usually my cat is doing something destructive or whatnot so I tend not to look at the music, but instead keep an eye on the cat. When I do this, it falls into place. When I dont, well, its not as good :)

banjerman - Posted - 08/31/2009:  17:38:01

I will be marketing prewar coffee cups if this takes off!!

Waldo - Posted - 09/01/2009:  01:32:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjerman

I will be marketing prewar coffee cups if this takes off!!

---

RB3 - Posted - 09/05/2009:  21:14:04

If any of you are interested in this technique, you might want to check out two books that were written about the application of the technique to sporting activities. The books are: The Inner Game Of Tennis and The Inner Game Of Golf.

The author's theory is that physical activities are best learned and performed when they are controlled by the sub-conscious rather than the conscious mind. In order to accomplish this, he employs a technique that he refers to as "relaxed concentration". The object is to concentrate in a relaxed way on something other than the activity that is being learned or performed. The theory is that the conscious mind will be occupied by the object of the relaxed concentration and the sub-conscious mind will be free to deal with the activity that you're trying to learn or perform.

My experience with the use of a metronome leads me to believe that there may be something to the theory. When I practice with a metronome and I concentrate intently on hearing the metronome beats, I find that I'm totally unaware of what I'm trying to play and that I can play continuously without making mistakes.

Also, it's been my observation that one of the things that separates the good ensemble players from the bad ones is the ability to play their instrument and also hear what others in the group are playing on their instruments. I believe this is also an application of the "relaxed concentration" technique. If the theory is correct, the good players are using their conscious mind to listen to the other players and letting their sub-conscious mind control what they're playing.

The above mentioned author's first book was The Inner Game Of Tennis. In the back of The Inner Game Of Golf, there was a testimonial from the principal bassist for the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra. He was a tennis player who had read The Inner Game Of Tennis and had succesfully applied the technique to his musical perfomances. He also claimed that he used the technique with his students.

tunetime - Posted - 09/25/2009:  15:52:42

just when you think you heard it all.....I agree with all that has been said and I do try like many here to try to practice about 50 percent of the time with no tabs and I find it really helps with accuracy on the strings.....great post