michael mana - Posted - 03/10/2009:  09:00:44

Hi, what is internal resonator, how does it work, where do you put it, can you put it in any openback, is it good, where do you buy it?. Thanks.

goldtopia - Posted - 03/10/2009:  09:06:19

I think you may be referring to the banjo mate tone enhancer. It a tin square thing that sticks onto the inside of the resonator using velcro. It bounces the sound back against the head.

Bill.O

JedNeedsCoffee - Posted - 03/10/2009:  09:12:33

I've never heard of an internal resonator (then again, I've always played clawhammer). Once though, I did have a real cheapo openback and when I got a new 'jo I decided to experiment with the cheapo before I gave it away. I cut a disk out of thin plywood the same diameter as the rim and attached it to the back of the rim (making it a "closedback", if you will). Then I cut 17 "soundholes" in the rim between the brackets with a half inch drill bit. That banjo had a weird, almost creepy sound.

"This is the best of all possible worlds" - Leibniz 1710

"If this is the best of all possible worlds, I''d hate to see what
the others look like" - Voltaire (paraphrased) 1759

Ron Ortegel - Posted - 03/10/2009:  09:16:56

An internal resonator is permanently attached to the back of a rim. Bart Reiter made them in the past, but not any more. They were also on some old Bacons and maybe some other old models. Bart Reiter called his models the Professional, Grand Concert, and F.F. Professional. You should be able to find a picture of them somewhere, either here, I believe John Balch has a photo on his member homepage),or on some dealer's site. John Has a CD with music played on a Reiter internal resonator banjo that is very good.
Hope this helps.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 03/10/2009:  10:00:01

Here's an example: http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/60U-2080.htm

Bill

jbalch - Posted - 03/10/2009:  11:58:52

Here are some more photos:

A Bart Reiter Internal Resonator rim from 1987:


Inside view of an internal resonator rim from a tenor banjo. This one was added to a plain rim by an unknown luthier.



www.johnbalchmusic.com
www.myspace.com/johnbalch

Edited by - jbalch on 03/10/2009 11:59:24

maxmax - Posted - 03/11/2009:  03:02:53

David Ball builds some good looking ones.

Helix - Posted - 03/11/2009:  17:47:58

I was going to say, Dave Ball.

(_)====''===::}

pgroff - Posted - 03/12/2009:  07:49:56

In the second photo from Mr. Balch, I don't see the reinforcing block that I have seen in original IR banjos, where the dowel stick runs from the heel of the neck, through the outer rim, then the inner rim, and is secured by the metal dowel-stick brace hardware. You can see that block in the first photo in my album on my banjohangout homepage.

PG

jbalch - Posted - 03/12/2009:  10:11:23

Paul:

You are right about the reinforcing block. Bart used them on his banjos...and the old Bacons had them too. I just didn't have a photo. The one on your homepage shows it very well. Thanks!

The rim in my photo was a plain-jane tenor banjo to which someone added the internal resonator. It was well done...but not as professionally as the originals.

I also agree that Dave Ball has made some truly beautiful internal resonator banjos. Dave has even made a few 12" rim IR banjos. I've not played one personally, but I'm sure they are fantastic. I have a couple of rare Bart Reiter 12" IR banjos that are indeed very special.


www.johnbalchmusic.com
www.myspace.com/johnbalch

Edited by - jbalch on 03/12/2009 10:13:36

ballbanjos - Posted - 03/13/2009:  03:39:14

Thanks for the nice comments--I love internal resonator banjos and still build more banjos with internal resonators than without.

Yosco made some interesting internal resonator instruments too. On the Yosco banjos, there's not only a block at the heel, but three others as well--one every 90 degrees going around the rim. The block at the heel is needed if the neck attachment hardware is on the inside of the internal resonator. If you start pushing against that internal resonator with Vega style neck attachments, and there's no block inside to transfer that pressure through the rim to the heel, you'll not only have a weak neck to rim connection, but you'll eventually rip the internal resonator apart too.

Lately, I've been using a different neck attachment that is located inside the body of the banjo instead of inside the hole of the internal resonator (I like the cleaner look). It's accessible through a small hole inside the resonator. With this arrangement, no internal block is needed and I get a little more enclosed volume in the body of the banjo. Plus it's a continuous, uninterrupted cavity in the rim with no block breaking up the chamber. Is this better? I don't know, but I think it sounds better and the neck attachment allows easy action adjustment, even with the dowelstick.

Dave

pgroff - Posted - 03/13/2009:  05:12:40

John,

Yes, it looked like the reinforcing block had never been there on your banjo. Even though your modified banjo rim looked pretty straight, I thought it might be a good idea to draw attention to the presence of the block in the old IR banjos because it seems structurally important for the reasons Dave mentioned.

Dave, it sounds like you have achieved an advance over the old construction methods.

This could be another topic, but has anyone here noticed the huge-pot Yosco Collossus guitar banjo at retrofret/musurgia ? If I were in NY I'd want to go over there and find out how it sounds:

http://www.retrofret.com/products.a...456873132009

PG

ballbanjos - Posted - 03/14/2009:  05:24:13

I've seen a couple of Yosco Collossus banjos. As they came from the factory (using Yosco's patent raised head design), they sound so-so to me. BUT--if you turn down the inside rim to act more like a Bacon (OK, it's a big no-no to de-originalize a vintage instrument), they can sound very good. Ray Alden has modified several Yoscos like this (including a Collossus I believe), and when converted to five strings they sound wonderful.

I like the sound of all of those huge bodied guit-jos--the Collossus included.

Dave

EggerRidgeBoy - Posted - 03/14/2009:  09:18:39

How would you describe the effect of an IR on a banjo's sound? I know that would vary from model to model, but is there a general "voice" that IR banjos have in common? Is it mainly a matter of increased volume?

ballbanjos - Posted - 03/15/2009:  04:06:04

From my experience, I wouldn't say that it makes the banjo any louder at all. But, it does accent the bass/midrange (the height of the internal rim, the width of the internal resonator and the overall depth of the rim work together to determine the overall volume of the internal cavity, and determine what frequency range is affected), and gives the banjo a slight echo tone. Another factor that affects the tone is the number of sound holes. Bacon (and Bart) have used 2 holes or many holes. I've always preferred the two hole resonators like the one in John's picture above over the multi-hole models--the 2 hole models have a little more echo I think. Many Yoscos had no holes at all, and this is what I've come to prefer. I don't cut soundholes in my internal resonators any more unless specifically requested to do so. Anyway, between the altered frequency response and the little bit of echo, I think the internal resonator gives the banjo added presence and a very pleasant tone.

Dave

jbalch - Posted - 03/15/2009:  07:05:10

I think Dave nailed it...the IR rim adds a little "beef" to the bass and low mid-range tones. It also adds a "presence" that is unique.

I often say that it is the type of sound the "fills a room...without being in-your-face". My Bart Reiter IR banjos (especially the 12" rim models) sound big and wide...not exceptionally loud.

BTW...my cds were recorded with two Bart Reiter IR banjos. Carry On John was entirely played on a 1994 Grand Concert A-scale (w/ whyte-laydie & bacon tone rings), ~HOT~ Biscuit Jam was recorded using that same Grand Concert plus a rare 1993 12" rim IR banjo with just a brass hoop ring. Tha banjo are identified in liner notes. You can hear samples of all the tracks on my BHO homepage or my website: www.johnbalchmusic.com.





www.johnbalchmusic.com
www.myspace.com/johnbalch

Edited by - jbalch on 03/15/2009 07:11:01

carlb - Posted - 03/16/2009:  08:28:26

Almost all information available about Bacon internal resonator banjos, including patent drawing and description.
http://c.b.baron.home.att.net/Bacon...anjopics.pdf
a link on:
http://c.b.baron.home.att.net/Bacon...njoData.html
Carl

schaumannk - Posted - 03/17/2009:  15:43:54

If you go to my hangout site you can see 2 pictures of a neck that will be attached to an internal resonator banjo. The banjo is being made by an unamed builder who may or may not have commented on this thread. Slightly off topic maybe, but I had to show the pictures to someone. Lookin good.

matchcovers - Posted - 05/11/2009:  09:41:33

I have a Bart Reiter Internal Resonator banjo in mint condition (w/case) for sale. I paid $1650 for it several years ago and think it might go for around $2000 today. Any comments? Also, where is the best place to sell a vintage banjo like this one? eBay or BH?



Bill

xnavyguy - Posted - 05/11/2009:  10:25:22

Yesterday while I was at my drug (banjo parts) dealers house, she asked me if I had ever seen an internal resonator banjo. Of course, I said no so she went into her stash and pulled out a banjo that had a resonator on the back. She popped the external resonator off the back to reveal what appeared to be a very thick rim at the bottom that tapered to a thin dimension at the top. It had a really strange looking double bracket sytem with an outside j-hook over the head tension band and an inside j-hook under the head and over the tone hoop. I can't remember the brand (Williams, maybe) but next time I go over there for a fix, I'll take my camera and get some photos. That lady never ceases to amaze me. She's a banjo collector and everytime I ask her a question about something, she goes to her stash and pulls something out and says "this is what it looks like".

Jerry

"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we''re here we should dance."

mikehalloran - Posted - 05/11/2009:  19:05:11

OME makes a close fitting pop-on resonator for open backs that is often referred to as an internal resonator. Anyone have experience with that design?

Mike Halloran

Emiel - Posted - 05/12/2009:  02:27:10

quote:

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Originally posted by mikehalloran

OME makes a close fitting pop-on resonator for open backs that is often referred to as an internal resonator. Anyone have experience with that design?

Mike Halloran

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