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brudford - Posted - 12/12/2008: 16:56:37
Received my Nylgut strings today from Ederly and took off the old steel strings. Let me tell you ,if you do not have patience do not even attempt these strings. First off learn how to tie a good Bowline knot I must of done a pretty good job as only one slipped off. Better be good with a file to open up the nut slots and bridge slots to accomadate the larger diameter strings. Be prepared to wind and tune and wind and tune ect.....
Stretch and tune and stretch and tune ect...... . Well there on
and I think I like the sound better than steel. If Aquila who makes theses strings could put a factory loop on the ends I would be willing to pay more dollars per set.
mrphysics55 - Posted - 12/12/2008: 17:02:20
quote:
If Aquila who makes theses strings could put a factory loop on the ends I would be willing to pay more dollars per set.
Amen to that!
MrP
Do you need a Fiddle Player to Practice With 24/7? Go To
http://www.fiddletunes.net
J-Walk - Posted - 12/12/2008: 17:53:56
Do any nylon strings come with a loop? I don't recall seeing any.
Would be nice, though. I'm not a good knot tier. Every time I put on nylon strings, I have to google for that handy mugwumps diagram of how to tie a string on a no-knot tailpiece. Then it takes me 5 minutes to figure it out.
It's here, by the way:
http://www.mugwumps.com/no_knot.htm
riverwindflutes - Posted - 12/12/2008: 17:54:42
Should only take a day or two for the strings to stretch and settle in, I use the tug and tune method, just keep tugging on the strings to stretch them out and then retune, works every time.
Here's a Link to Zepp's site for tying a Bowline Knot
http://zeppmusic.com/frameset.htm
The first step is to make a small loop in your string, near the end.
The working end is then brought back through that small loop, forming what will eventually be the loop that will hold the string onto the tailpiece.
The working end is now wrapped behind the static part of the string...
and then passed back through the small, initial loop.
Finally, pull the working and static ends in opposite directions. This will snug into the knot itself, leaving a non-cinching loop to hold the string onto your tailpiece.
"It is best to be honest and truthfull, to make the most of what you have, to be happy with simple pleasures, to be cheerfull, and have courage when things go wrong".
Laura Ingalls Wilder
Author of:
"Little House on the Prairie"
(__)===="===<#}
Edited by - riverwindflutes on 12/12/2008 18:07:09
brudford - Posted - 12/12/2008: 18:15:57
J-Walk, I think on a site called Strings .Com. Someone was selling a set of nylon banjo strings with a factory loop. On my classical guitars
instead of tying knots I use a folk nylon string with metal balls at the ends not traditional put saves me from making knots. I guess with the
Nylgut strings their trying to project an old time experience of real gut strings and what the old timers had to do to use them. I would think
from a manufacturing standpoint it would be no big deal to tie loops at the ends.
deuceswilde - Posted - 12/12/2008: 18:24:48
Until wire strings became popular, no strings had knots. Even some wire strings came without loops, in that case you could buy one of these from the back of the Stewart's Banjo, Guitar and Mandolin Journal Dec 1899 & Jan 1900.
This issue was published after the death of S.S.S. and his sons had partnered George Bauer and they had begun to move production to New York (that was where the Monogram line was built). The era of Sam Stewart was over and wire strings slowly began to gain acceptance as a cheap more consistent and stable alternative to gut of silk.
Enter the modern golden era of the banjo. Science has given us suitable synthetics, so we no longer have to wear out frets and our fingernails and tips with wire. This is truly a great time for the banjoist.
All kidding aside, the difficulty associated with using nylgut or nylon strings comes up here quite often, but I just don't understand it. I suppose that the modern no-knots may have a bit to do with the trouble, they are terrible. Thats why I began making my own tailpieces out of wood, or using other antique, non no-knot, pieces. One only has to open the nut slots once. Crank that head down and get yourself a proper bridge ( read my article on the subject http://www.banjosessions.com/dec08/Hooks.html) and enjoy the comfort and ease of playing that these strings offer.
-Joel
Success always comes to those who have the money to buy it.
-The Adventures of a Banjo Player, 1884 p.26
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 12/12/2008: 19:17:06
I don't worry about bowlines or other complex knots. I tie a simple square knot in the end of the string, then I pass it around the post on a No-Knot (not through the slot) making a half hitch. When I tighten up on the string the square knot serves to keep it from coming off.
It is simpler and faster than dealing with the "legit" methods of putting in a string. If I have trouble getting a string to go between the posts I've been known to tie it around the tailpiece screw with a square knot.
I only tried one set of Nylguts - I got tired of stretching them and I got tired of having them break. About the time I had given up on the trebles the wound string started to unwind.
Download your free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players, at:
http://www.rsb.pricklypearmusic.net
Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes. - which are up to about 40 now.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site full of interesting banjo material
tanglefingers - Posted - 12/13/2008: 04:09:43
I have soooo much nylon wound round my tuners lol they sure do stretch for ages but WELL worth it in the end. on my MtBanjo the pins are driven into the top of the tailpiece block near the back edge the strings have to loop on then bend under themselves and through the holes in the block, strings have to be looped, but looped close enough to the end so that the knot does not hit the block before the loop takes up the weight
thats a dam small loop for my fingers!!
I guess i could tie a HUGE knot and just let it take all the strain like a ball end, but i dont think much of that ideai will still use them... even without loops, but i will not leave any slack to wind on to the capstan next time...
edit> think i will also try next time installing them as you do with a classical guitar, the block is a lot bigger but allows for the same technique
the definition of "perfect pitch" is lobbing a banjo into a dumpster and hitting an accordian !
Edited by - tanglefingers on 12/13/2008 04:40:47
R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 12/13/2008: 04:31:12
If you have a "No-Knot" or similar design tailpiece, here is a very simple method for string installation that *works* :
http://mugwumps.com/tailpieces/NoKn...HowToUse.jpg
I really like Nylguts. My favorite fretted banjos have all been switched over to skin heads and Nylguts.
My Reiter A-scale took quite awhile (a few days) to get all of the stretch out of the strings, and I ended up with an ungodly
amount of string wrapped arround the tuning post. At that point though, you can unwrap and cut off the excess.
On my 12" Ramsey, the strings stretched out in only about a day, and with not too much excess string on the posts.
The problem I had with my Ramsey was tuning the 5th up to "A" which usually caused the string to break- I liked the sound of the strings so well though that I had a 5th string spike installed (something I said I'd never do)........problem solved.
Like The WoodChuck, I noted that the winding on the 4th is the first thing to give way. This seems to have to do with wear at the fret points. My fretless banjos don't have as much of a problem with this.
I am taken enough with the sound of Nylguts to work with them. Personally, I have found that once you get them installed and stretched they are pretty problem free.
I know that other folks out there have ther own favorites when it comes to non-steel strings. Perhaps we could hear what they are.
Tony; I know you have another brand that you favor. What are they?
R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you''ll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917
BConk - Posted - 12/13/2008: 05:48:56
quote:
Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford
I know that other folks out there have ther own favorites when it comes to non-steel strings. Perhaps we could hear what they are.
Savarez "Yellow Card" Very High Tension classical guitar strings are my pick and I greatly prefer them over any nylon or Nylgut banjo strings I've used.
They too will stretch, but generally they're stable enough the next day to play without having to retune in the middle of a song.
I use the first string for the first and fifth string on the banjo, then the 2nd, 3rd, etc..
As for using the slot in the post of a No-Knot tailpiece to anchor a string instead of tying a loop, if there's any sharpness to the edges of those slots the Nylgut string will cut there in very short order when it's tightened.
The only banjo I have strung with nylon now is a fretless with a bottle opener tailpiece to which I tie the same knot one ties to string a guitar.
www.nowhereradio.com/artists...=4644&alid=-1
Edited by - BConk on 12/13/2008 05:53:13
CW Spook - Posted - 12/13/2008: 06:28:54
I'm with R.D. I use the same technique on my Vega and on my Deering Hartford. I just love the Nylguts...almost as much as real gut. The only downside is that they do take a few days to stop stretching.
Rick
"The King has note of all that they intend, by interception which they dream not of. "
Henry V, Act ll, Scene 2.
brudford - Posted - 12/13/2008: 07:18:19
Well I'am 48 hrs. into the Nylguts and their starting to hold a pitch
without tuning every 15 mins. I like them and their going to be my string of choice. Yes, they are a little more quiet than steel but I'am just a front porch picker playing for myself. Here is an idea that might work. Take
a match or lighter to the end of a string and while it is hot and melting
press it to a hard surface to create a balled end,slip the string into the slot on the post of the Noknot tail piece and see if it stays. I may experiement with a cheap pair of LaBella's that I have. Although I do not think this will work with the 4 th string.
KE - Posted - 12/13/2008: 08:09:12
I think <some> of the "stretchiness" is due to not putting a proper non-slip knot on the end and using a good non-slip locking wrap on the tuners. When I do those things, Nylgut stretch for about a day, and then hold rock solid.
oldtimer - Posted - 12/13/2008: 11:12:51
quote:
Originally posted by KE
I think <some> of the "stretchiness" is due to not putting a proper non-slip knot on the end and using a good non-slip locking wrap on the tuners. When I do those things, Nylgut stretch for about a day, and then hold rock solid.
I agree that it is a "user installation problem". I have used Nylguts for a long time with absolutely no problems.
stay tooned....
Glenn Godsey
"Time passes unhindered"
deuceswilde - Posted - 12/13/2008: 12:36:09
quote:
Originally posted by brudford
Well I'am 48 hrs. into the Nylguts and their starting to hold a pitch
without tuning every 15 mins. I like them and their going to be my string of choice. Yes, they are a little more quiet than steel but I'am just a front porch picker playing for myself. Here is an idea that might work. Take
a match or lighter to the end of a string and while it is hot and melting
press it to a hard surface to create a balled end,slip the string into the slot on the post of the Noknot tail piece and see if it stays. I may experiement with a cheap pair of LaBella's that I have. Although I do not think this will work with the 4 th string.
With proper setup of your banjo, you should lose very little volume. Heavy and large bridges, thick or loose plastic heads can contribute to significant sound loss. Also, the shrillness associated with wire strings is not an issue. All the techniques modern wire string players use to "darken" up the banjo are not needed.
-Joel
Success always comes to those who have the money to buy it.
-The Adventures of a Banjo Player, 1884 p.26
R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 12/13/2008: 14:40:56
quote:
Originally posted by deuceswilde
[quote]Originally posted by brudford
Also, the shrillness associated with wire strings is not an issue. All the techniques modern wire string players use to "darken" up the banjo are not needed.
-Joel
There it is.
We occasionally have conversations about getting that "elusive plunk".
To me it's simple: skin head and some sort of non-steel string. Even an arch-top Mastertone would sound plunky with those two items.
No way is your banjo going to sound dark and plunky with a cranked down plastic head and steel strings....unless you stuff it with a horse-banket.
R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you''ll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917
Edited by - R.D. Lunceford on 12/13/2008 14:44:59
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 12/13/2008: 21:30:51
RD
I use Chris Sands Heavy Classical Banjo Strings - My banjo is 27 inch scale and tuned 3 half tones low..
B Conk - I love that tailpiece and might do somethign similar. Ihave been tying classical guitar strings for about 52 years now and that tailpiece looks perfect to me. I've never seen a Rheingold Extra Dry banjo - I assume they were make in the Black Forest.
On tying strings - I use the same knots (which are a version of a classical guitar string knot) on every string of nylon or similar material I ever used - The only one that gave me trouble with over stretching was the Nylgut set. Nylguts and La Bella both gave me breakage problems, but only Nylguts came prematurely unwound.
When I bought the Nylguts it was suggested that after a week or so of stretching I loosen the trebles down and pull more through the tuning peg so I wouldn't end up with a huge mass of string around the post - I did that since the windings had grown so large in a week I couldn't keep them from changing teh normal nut angle.
Download your free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players, at:
http://www.rsb.pricklypearmusic.net
Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes. - which are up to about 40 now.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site full of interesting banjo material
woopig - Posted - 05/27/2009: 12:53:54
Sorry to resurrect an old post, but I'm a bit confused. Are you guys saying that you tie a knot in the Aquila Nylgut, as in even the "classic" gauge ones? They seem a bit thick to me for that, but I'm new to nylon strings so probably don't know what I'm talking about. If so, that would be great, as this no-knot tailpiece is giving me troubles.
strokestyle - Posted - 05/27/2009: 13:01:19
Yes tie the string - I make a loop it is a bit nerving cause some strings are thick. Good luck.
KE - Posted - 05/27/2009: 14:27:42
It can be done. Try using a pair of small needle nose pliers to grip the end.
Edited by - KE on 05/27/2009 14:29:26
trapdoor2 - Posted - 05/27/2009: 14:28:52
I tie a "figure eight" knot in the tailpiece end. I just replaced the strings on the ol' Flesher and decided to tie them on per the original "No-Knot" instructions...the figure eight knot keeps things from slipping off, if it slips at all. I did have to open up the slot on the "No Knot" for the 4th string just a bit...but that was done years ago.
Here's how to tie a "figure eight" knot. Very easy to tie in even the thick stuff.
http://www.animatedknots.com/fig8boating/index.php
To keep from having a birdsnest of string around the 1st, 2nd and 3rd string posts, I usually run the string thru the post and then take a couple turns around a pencil or dowel and stretch it a good bit before winding it on. Nice to have an extra set of hands around for that task. Alternatively, one may simply wind on all the string required and let it settle for a couple days. Then, unwind it all and pull thru all the newly stretched 'extra' bit. Careful you don't nick it though...I busted two doing that last time thru.
===Marc
"If banjos needed tone rings, S.S. Stewart would have made them that way."
R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/27/2009: 14:45:13
quote:
Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford
If you have a "No-Knot" or similar design tailpiece, here is a very simple method for string installation that *works* :
http://mugwumps.com/tailpieces/NoKn...HowToUse.jpg
You don't mention what type of tailpiece you have (or maybe I missed it), but again, check out the above link. They're not called "No-Knot" tailpieces for nothing.
R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you''ll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917
woopig - Posted - 05/27/2009: 18:03:02
Thanks for the info, guys, will try the knot next time I change strings. R.D., I did put that I have a no-knot tailpiece, should I have been more specific than that? I'm a newbie, it's whatever kind comes on an Enoch Tradesman. I just kept having trouble with it slipping off of the no-knot post as I tightened the string, especially on the 5th as it didn't have much room around the post due to the large 4th string.
tom clunie - Posted - 05/27/2009: 19:21:21
Woopig, nylon/nylagut strings can last for months/years but they are sensitives to cutting. If there is any sharp edges anywhere on the no-knott the strings will soon break. Go over the no-knott with your fingers, magnifying glass, and sandpaper to smooth out any burrs.
A simple method of tying strings that has worked for years for me is: tie a simple overhand knott (same knott you use to tie your shoes) at the end of the string and pull it tight. This acts as a "catch-knott." Tie another overhand knott and loop it around one of the posts and jiggling/arranging the catch-knott such that the post knott catches the catch-knott and cannot slip.I usually put on fat string #4 last, arranging it so that the knotts on posts 5&3 give it enough room.
The nylagut 4th string seems to have pretty thin wrapping wire that wears out pretty fast so I 1) don't cut the 4th string excess and when I see too much wear at the fret places on the string, I retie the 4 string so it wears on different spots, and 2) buy and keep extra nylon guitar 4th strings handy. Godd luck! TC
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 05/27/2009: 20:07:23
In my experience you never want to put a nylon string through the slot of a modern No-Knot -- they have burrs and sharp angles. It isn't worth the time to clean them up.
If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players, at:
http://www.rsb.pricklypearmusic.net
Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes. - which number around 40 now.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material
R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/28/2009: 02:09:38
quote:
Originally posted by woopig
R.D., I did put that I have a no-knot tailpiece, should I have been more specific than that?
No.......I should have read your post more carefully.
Apparently we have all had a variety of different experiences with the No-Knot tailpiece. I have two banjos with No-Knots and Nylguts and have had no trouble whatsoever.
R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you''ll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917
Feo - Posted - 05/28/2009: 07:50:46
I've been growing tired of fret wear for some time now .... I don't understand why fretwire has to be made of such a soft metal , while strings are made of harder metals such as steel ? Steel strings like to cut through modern frets like cheese these days... Seems like a huge luthier job-security conspiracy 
So Ive been trying different synthetics for awhile now ...tried Nylgut but wasn't won over ... Ive been playing up to recently with 4 strings made of fishing leader + 1 wound silk classical string . My middle string was sounding alittle muddy so now I am trying 3 fishing leader strings + 2 x silk classical strings ... seems to be working fine. I love playing like the devil and not seeing any fret-wear ... that's the way life was meant to be 
Edited by - Feo on 05/28/2009 07:51:44
rudy - Posted - 05/28/2009: 13:14:28
Feo,
I play a lot and have personally never noticed fret wear to be a major problem with any of my instruments. I'm not sure that it isn't somewhat related to playing style and technique. I'm wondering aloud if folks that complain of fret wear may be better served with a wider (i.e. jumbo) wire that distributes the pressure over more area of the fret. I have a Lowden and a few Larrivee acoustic guitars that have "standard width" frets, and only show miniscule wear on the first few frets above the first and second strings. Same with my wide fret Telecasters. I'll be passing them on in my will before they need re-fretting. Banjos need such a light touch that I see only slight wear on the most often used positions.
Visit my website for assorted banjo construction information:
http://www.bluestemstrings.com/page...onTips1.html
Feo - Posted - 05/29/2009: 09:13:56
Rudy ,
I envy you guys that say your frets never wear .....maybe you have a combination of a light touch + an exceptional luthier ? Fretwear certainly happens with my instruments and my friend's instruments too ... maybe we're heavy-hitters . I most often notice fret wear starting on just a couple frets , kind of random - like ...that is to say , that if I were to pick up two banjos and play them exactly the same way, I would notice fret wear starting to happen on different frets , not the same frets...And since I use all the frets on my neck , and use them all in the same fashion, I wonder why my fretwear usually starts to happen in a couple isolated spots ? Wouldn't the fretwear happen on the entire neck if it were my technique at fault? Kind of suggests to me that often instruments are built and might have some kind of an unevenness going on, maybe a few slight high spots on the frets ... or maybe the neck may require a slight bow to keep the strings from rubbing certain frets, due to the shape of a vibrating string ....Im sure we don't get perfect setups from the factory.. there is a local guitar fixer in my area that is just swamped with guitars needing re-fret jobs ....so alot of people have this problem ....heck, I heard that even Doc Watson needs a re-fret job every year , and I wish that I had the talent of just one of his pimples . My synthetic string approach is killing several birds with one stone. Im getting the desired tone I want , not metallic ... Im having no fret wear , no matter how hard I play ..... my fishing line is good on the budget , never rusts , and hardly ever needs changing . I don't know...frets and me don't seem to get along... maybe that's why Im a fiddler 
rudy - Posted - 05/29/2009: 20:28:27
Feo,
No easy answers here. I'm talking of stock frets as they came on the instruments, so I just have to consider myself blessed with the right mojo for low fret wear.
I also fiddle, and when I first started playing I was taken by the mechanics of it. i discovered that only a miniscule amount of contact was necessary to produce a clear note. Since that's how I basically approach fretted instrument playing, it may explain the minimal amount of fret wear I experiance.
Visit my website for assorted banjo construction information:
http://www.bluestemstrings.com/page...onTips1.html
John Gribble - Posted - 05/29/2009: 20:47:28
I too have very little fret wear and some of my instruments I've played for over 30 or even 40 years. I think a lot of it has to do with how heavy a left hand one uses.
John Gribble
Tokyo, Japan
R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/29/2009: 21:56:46
Go fretless........problem solved. 
R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you''ll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917
CW Spook - Posted - 05/30/2009: 07:56:23
quote:
Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford
Go fretless........problem solved.
That's how I solved it too!
Rick
"The King has note of all that they intend, by interception which they dream not of. "
Henry V, Act ll, Scene 2.
ELWOOD - Posted - 06/02/2009: 06:10:03
Thoes nylagut strings are wonderful sounding cant beat them on an old 12 inch pot, my favorite for voice and banjo solo artist style performances. I remember a guy complaining about the knock off hubs on his antique Jaguar. see my point.....Steve
Steve
Edited by - ELWOOD on 06/02/2009 06:13:59
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 06/03/2009: 16:52:28
Were those pot metal covers?
If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players, at:
http://www.rsb.pricklypearmusic.net
Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes. - which number around 40 now.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material
