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banjodr - Posted - 11/12/2008: 16:22:09
Anyone have any info on Studio King models? i.e. I've seen gold plated tube and plate and one piece stuff and chrome ect. Did they have model numbers? The music store here in town sent a guy over with what looked like a mahogany one piece flange chrome 5 string 40 hole archtop with the 20's kind of purfling in the back of the resonator and down the side of the neck. Grover 2-bands ivoroid buttons ice cream cone peghead with a rectangle banner with Studio King engraved in the banner a Gibsonesque style 6 inlay pattern and 9556-xx stamped in the rim no label. the neck was either an old incredibly well copied (oops don't want to get the po pos excited) repro or an original 5 string. Any where I can get info for this guy. I"m trying to buy it but don't know if I can pry it from him or not. He said he picked it up on the marathon yard sale highway in East Tn and Ky when ever it was last. I think it is the big thing on Hwy 55 twice a year. Any help would be appreciated. thanks
Tooth doctor by day......Banjodr by whatever means possible.....
larry p - Posted - 11/12/2008: 16:41:02
Howdy Banjodr,
don't have any info on them, but have seen a few like the one you describe...they were top shelf all the way, but I don't remember seeing one with an adjustable truss rod- what's the neck like in the one you have?
Larry Perkins
www.larryperkins.net
plunka5 - Posted - 11/12/2008: 18:48:50
Didn't the Grich make a "modern-day" copy of a Studio King for someone...and then it sold on ebay a couple of years ago? Seems like I remember him making one for himself or someone else
my hand is out of tune...hold on a second...
Greg Earnest - Posted - 11/12/2008: 20:46:02
Wow, Dave. . . that sounds like quite a find. Would love to see some pics. . . I've never seen an original RB Studio King. Never seen one with an ice cream cone peghead, either. . . here's the only one I have on my site:
http://www.earnestbanjo.com/studio_..._9717-20.htm
Interesting that the one you've found has a 9556 number. . . as I'm sure you know, that was a big batch of TB-Granadas with forty-hole archtop rings. I've seen a couple of Granadas from that batch with chalk resonator numbers that had obviously been rubbed out and rewritten at the factory, so something funny must have gone on in the numbering of that lot.
"We find it comical that some people take up the banjo, learn some of Earl''s tunes, and then want to go to ''the next level''. They want to go ''beyond Earl''. Pilgrim, *there is no beyond*."
--The Flint Hill Flash
The Prewar Gibson Banjo website
http://www.earnestbanjo.com
steve davis - Posted - 11/13/2008: 04:27:23
We got to see an original Studio King 5 string played by Sam Tidwell for years here in Maine.
Great sounding old archtop.
"If it sounds good..."
vtyankee5 - Posted - 11/13/2008: 07:07:04
It is strange after all these years Gibson let go of all the names RK, Kel Kroydon, Kalamazoo and kept the trademark name Studio King. There must be a story behind the reasoning.
desert rose - Posted - 11/13/2008: 07:14:47
Gibson never owned Kel Kroydon or Recording King, they only oem supplied these instruments to others who did own the trademarks. Other companies made RK guitars for Montgomery wards who owned RK , just like toy manufacturers made the KK toys marketed by the owner of the KK brand
They also never owned S. S. Stewart or Truett both names of banjos made by Gibson like the KK and RK but only oem supplied to the marketers who did own the rights to use those names
Here is a Truett
http://www.turtlehillbanjo.com/imag...201930s.html
And a S. S. Stewart
http://www.turtlehillbanjo.com/imag...Stewart.html
So.. who is going to rush out and trademark this and start making them
, its wide open and available to the first taker
Studio King is owned by Gibson and still carries an active Trademark used in their drum line if I remember correctly
Havent looked at Kalamazoo in a long time dont remember its lineage
Scott
Edited by - desert rose on 11/13/2008 07:34:20
vtyankee5 - Posted - 11/13/2008: 07:35:57
You learn something new every day. So Gibson never owned them? Why does everyone say Gibson did? I would like to hear more of the story of who owned what. Scott I am all ears.
desert rose - Posted - 11/13/2008: 07:48:11
Like I said, RK was owned and marketed by Montgomery Wards, KK was owned and marketed by another large mail order department store type company
Truett was affiliate with Trujo I believe and marketed thru a few small music stores
Id have to go thru and dig to rmemeber who owned the S. S. Stewart name
I have old catalogs of Gibson and specifically Catalog W from 35 or 36 and catalog Y which is from 1937 and debuts the top tension stuff. Both these have the pearloid banjos Clearly listed as Gibson style 11, which is true. The Gibson style 10 was also available at a cheaper price and with no adjustable rod and simpler silk screans on the pearloid
You can see the ownership of Studio King simply by going to the government patent and trademark page
None of this is secret or anything less than common knowlege in the vintage instrument alleys, including acoustic guitars. The old RK acoustic guitars were not bad
If you get a copy of Acoustic Guitars and Other Fretted Instruments by Gruhn and Carter they have great photos of a number of the high end RK acoustics ( those made by Gibson) but not the cheaper ones made by others. They also list about half a dozen other bizzar brand names of acoustic guitars that Gibson made but were marketed by completely different distributing companies
Scott
Edited by - desert rose on 11/13/2008 08:01:52
vtyankee5 - Posted - 11/13/2008: 07:59:50
I knew RK was from montgomery wards. I knever knew who Kel Kroydon was from. I forgot about the SS Stewart. I have seen the original Gibson ads for the style 11 before. I never knew the style 10 came with Gibson on the peghead.
I'm sure the minds are turning right now by all the readers. Stewart had funky resonator hardware. Almost like a latch. Plus the pearloid resonators were a little smaller than the standard resonator. They were not interchangeable from what I have seen.
If I remember the Tonk Brothers were involved with Gibson at the time.
Emiel - Posted - 11/13/2008: 08:07:07
quote:
Originally posted by desert rose
Id have to go thru and dig to rmemeber who owned the S. S. Stewart name
Scott
S.S. Stewart history (from
http://www.mugwumps.com/)
1878 First made banjos
1878-1885 Banjos numbered 1000 and below
1885 Banjeaurine introduced
1885-1888 Banjos numbered between 1000 & 4000
1887 Patented heavy neck brace introduced
1888 Peghead shaped trademark introduced
1888-1889 Banjos numbered between 4000 & 5000
1890-1894 Banjos numbered between 5000 & 14000
1893 Sears contract, Acme banjo line introduced
1894 Banjos numbered between 14000 & 15000
1894 Adjustable neck brace
1895-1898 Banjos numbered between 15000 & 20000
1896 Thoroughbred trademark registered - probably in use for 10 years.
c1896 20th Century Model introduced
1898 Partnership with George Bauer
4/1898 Stewart died
1898 Unexplained gap between 20000 & 50000
1898 Partnership between George Bauer & Stewart's family
1899 Banjos numbered above 50000 may be after death of SSS
1901 Stewart's Sons end partnership, start own line
1901-1904 4s banjos - "SS Stewart's Sons" made in NYC under contract
1901-1910 Bauer continued making banjos marked "S.S.Stewart"
1911 The Keenophone Company acquired the Bauer Company
1915 SS Stewart name sold to Buegeleisen & Jacobson
Emiel
http://www.flickr.com/photos/emieldk/http://www.bluerounders.com
desert rose - Posted - 11/13/2008: 08:13:23
Thanks Emiel
I see the name Sears in there, I knew they had something to do with one of these off brands I wonder if they grabbed it during the time of the banjo on Turtlehills site
Joe you wrote
If I remember the Tonk Brothers were involved with Gibson at the time.
Now that isnt possibly the Tonk of TONKA as in the trucks we all played with as kids, wow you never know (g)
Scott
Edited by - desert rose on 11/13/2008 08:17:30
desert rose - Posted - 11/13/2008: 08:26:22
OK so its 1.30 am and the only thing on tv is that stupid The Shield tv show so Ive been digging
I find reference in the Gruhn Carter book that maybe Gibson did in fact control the KK name unlike all the dozen or so other names which they didnt
Ill keep digging
Scott
vtyankee5 - Posted - 11/13/2008: 08:51:46
I never put that together. You never know. If I remember the Tonk family were from PA or the area. They were a catalog company in the late 20's early 30's. Ended up failing due to the depression. Montgomery kept the RK name till the 90's till they filed Chapter 11. That's why Greg first filed in 1996 and lost the award the first time after he left Gibson.
I just searched. Kalamazoo is wide open also. Someone has to revive that name from the past. Huber has a model not a brand name. Thats all someone needs are guts and money.
banjodr - Posted - 11/13/2008: 12:27:28
Well I have attempted to reach the owner and he must be either avoiding me or not near his phone. I'll keep up the attempted contact. Suffice to say if I can get close there will be pictures. Greg the peghead is exactly like the one in the link to Turtle Hill's second Studio listing. matter of fact that is it except for the tenor neck. Perko, hey man let's get together again at the house. the neck doesn't have a volute but other than that it is all the same. I may have to retract the truss rod it may have just had a cover only I actually didn't take it off and looksee. HOpefully more to come. thanks guys
Tooth doctor by day......Banjodr by whatever means possible.....
BanjoDiva - Posted - 11/13/2008: 18:01:58
From Greg Rich:
Montgomery Ward had abandoned the name years before I even thought of trademarking the name. However Gibson had just trademarked " Studio King " for their new line of drums , they felt Recording King might confuse the public so they filed a complaint and won . My attorney advised me to continue making the Recording King banjos for several reasons
I would have common law trademark rights to the name which is almost as good
I could always re-file at a later date if I wanted to.
Studio King was sold by Sears and Recording KIng was sold by Montgomery Ward
and yes they are almost identical in looks and specs.
wiresnwood - Posted - 11/14/2008: 20:50:59
Hey David,
Truss rod cover may very well be for looks.... I have a 5-string very close to me....but it is a 2-piece. It sounds right....you've seen enough of them to know. I would like to see a few more pics myself. Mahog. with concentric rings and Style 5 marquerty in resonator and neck? That much is right. Chrome is right too. Most had serial numbers that I've seen or had. "Fancy" Studio King over/under in block is right also.....just haven't seen one with 3 scoops though!
Sounds promising!
Jeff
Jeff Cantrell
"Sumthin'' amatter with ya banjo baby...? Barry White
Edited by - wiresnwood on 11/14/2008 20:52:19
banjodr - Posted - 11/14/2008: 21:27:38
Still trying to procure this beast but no luck so far. Will keep you posted.
NIP IT, NIP IT IN THE BUD
Mike Johnson - Posted - 11/15/2008: 06:39:54
I know the 5-string that Steve and Jeff mentioned.They are the same banjo.Barry Palmer has it now.the neck has had some work done on it in the past including the installation of a truss rod (hidden -adjusts from heel end)but it appears to me to be original to the banjo.I'll try to get some pictures of it in a few days if I can get Barry to bring it to the drugstore on Wed.(see my home page photos for some of the sights one might encounter there on any given Wednesday.)Visits from fellow banjoheads are always welcome.
Mike Johnson
ps this is a very strong arch -top.
Edited by - Mike Johnson on 11/15/2008 06:41:43
vtyankee5 - Posted - 11/15/2008: 06:56:44
quote:
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 18:48:50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't the Grich make a "modern-day" copy of a Studio King for someone...and then it sold on ebay a couple of years ago? Seems like I remember him making one for himself or someone else
Didn't Grich make a banjo for Herb Pederson a few years back for an endorsement. Herb ended up selling the banjo shortly after. Was that the banjo?
Edited by - vtyankee5 on 11/15/2008 06:57:15
ninethirtyfive - Posted - 11/15/2008: 06:59:18
Herb had a Recording King
