Davidprat - Posted - 05/18/2008:  07:55:27

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I know that there are some Old time tunes that comes from an Irish tune.I'd like to have a list of Old time tunes with their Irish relative,which ones do you know?

David Prat
www.davidprat.com

handsup8 - Posted - 05/18/2008:  09:21:46

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Red-Haired Boy is quite similar to "Little Beggarman;" Hop-High Ladies ditto to Mrs. McLeod's Reel; "Western Country" is related to "The Waxies' Dargle." I'm sure that more knowledgeable people will give you many more! Ted

Handsup8

SteveK - Posted - 05/18/2008:  09:46:07

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Leather Britches is related to Lord MacDonald's Reel, which is in O'Neill's Music of Ireland. However the names MacDonald and McLeod suggest Scottish origin and both of these tunes are in the Dow Collection, a book of Scottish tunes. George Booker is related to another tune in O'Neill's called Keeper Hill. But again, a very similar tune is in the Dow Collection. I can't remember the name. Pete Sutherland once suggested in a workshop that the tune Granny Take a Look at Uncle Sam was derived from Farewell to Ireland. I've never really seen it. Granny was recorded by J. P. Fraley. There's an Irish hornpipe which is clearly related to an American tune but I can't remember the names of either tune. The Wind that Shakes the Barley is sometimes played as an old time tune under the same name.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 05/18/2008:  10:08:21

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Over the Waterfall, Temperance (Teetoaler's) Reel.

Bill

BANJOJUDY - Posted - 05/18/2008:  10:34:13

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Coleraine
The WInd That Shakes The Barley
Haste to the Wedding
FIsher's Hornpipe
Rose Tree (Portlairge in Ireland)


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SteveK - Posted - 05/18/2008:  11:44:22

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I guess Soldier's Joy shouldn't be forgotten. It's found as a hornpipe in O'Neill's. The discussion at The Fiddler's Companion
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/index.html suggests that it may have originated in Scotland. It is certainly known in Shetland.

The hornpipe I mentioned earlier is The Boys of Blue Hill and the old time tune related to it is Keep the Ark a'Movin.

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/18/2008:  12:40:56

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The Cuckoo's Nest
Rickett's Hornpipe
Kitty and the Baby (aka the Irish Boys of Bluehill)
Smith's Reel (in part, the Irish Hornpipe, Kitty's Wedding)

There is a slower tune with a title like Child of the Moon, or stars or something that is "The BlackBird", an Irish slow air.

Seems like a lot of the crossover tunes were originally hornpipes.

R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you'll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917

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Edited by - R.D. Lunceford on 05/18/2008 12:41:56

brudford - Posted - 05/18/2008:  17:19:24

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I believe Cold Frosty Morning was a song written about a battle between England and Scotland during the 16 th or 17th Century ?
The Scotts were wiped out ? Not Ireland but all the same British Iisles.

twelvefret - Posted - 05/18/2008:  17:36:34

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quote:

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Kitty and the Baby (aka the Irish Boys of Bluehill)
Smith's Reel (in part, the Irish Hornpipe, Kitty's Wedding)

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One should always play Kitty's Wedding before Kitty and the Baby.

chuck

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BrendanD - Posted - 05/18/2008:  18:23:52

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quote:

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Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

There is a slower tune with a title like Child of the Moon, or stars or something that is "The BlackBird", an Irish slow air.

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That would be "Queen Of The Earth And Child Of The Skies", from Edden Hammons. Other variants are "The Wounded Hoosier" from Marcus Martin (North Carolina) and "The Wounded Hussar" from George Mert Reves (Arkansas/Oklahoma).

Melvin Wine's "Walk Chalk Chicken With A Necktie On" is clearly related to the Irish Tune "Farewell To Whiskey" (aka "A Farewell To Whiskey"). This could be a very long thread, as there are hundreds or even thousands of old-time tunes with Irish, Scottish, or English antecedents - and I'd bet that there are at least a few that went the other direction!


Brendan

"Many thing un-understandable a chicken-hearted seems slim usually."
- from a Japanese shopping bag (printed in English)

carlb - Posted - 05/19/2008:  05:41:05

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quote:

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Originally posted by brudford

I believe Cold Frosty Morning was a song written about a battle between England and Scotland during the 16 th or 17th Century ?
The Scotts were wiped out ? Not Ireland but all the same British Iisles.

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Just got back from a festival where the thought was that the tune "Stack 'em Up in Piles" (Melvin Wine) could very well be from that battle rather than from the Civil War. This came up mainly from the way the tune sounds.

Carl

"Just around the corner is someone who plays better than you....." "There will always be someone who likes your music and someone who dislikes your music. Get over it......." [Dan Haerle, former music prof at University of North Texas]

carlb - Posted - 05/19/2008:  05:42:59

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Honeymoon Reel

Carl

SteveK - Posted - 05/19/2008:  07:18:21

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For an interesting take on British Isles and American music of the south look at this article by Alan Jabbour.

http://www.alanjabbour.com/fiddle_t...rontier.html

Paul Hostetter - Posted - 05/19/2008:  23:22:23

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I have two favorite Irish imports. One is Boyne water, which I first heard from Franklin George. He admitted he'd learned it from a book: Howe's Violin Tutor, a very old edition. The Boyne is a river in Ireland, but the tune is utterly appropriate (and big fun) in its American setting, whatever that could mean.

The other is Green Fields of America by Indiana's John Summers. He played it as he learned it from his father who was born and grew up in Ireland. Another nice example of a tune with each foot happily in a different culture.

Paul Hostetter, luthier
Santa Cruz, California
www.lutherie.net

BrendanD - Posted - 05/20/2008:  01:00:05

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quote:

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Originally posted by Paul Hostetter

I have two favorite Irish imports. One is Boyne water, which I first heard from Franklin George. He admitted he'd learned it from a book: Howe's Violin Tutor, a very old edition. The Boyne is a river in Ireland, but the tune is utterly appropriate (and big fun) in its American setting, whatever that could mean.

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Hi Paul! Yes, this and the tune you mention below are also favorites of mine. I learned it from Frankin George, too, but never knew where he'd learned it till now. Boyne Water was apparently also collected in Pennsylvania by Sam Bayard.

quote:

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The other is Green Fields of America by Indiana's John Summers. He played it as he learned it from his father who was born and grew up in Ireland. Another nice example of a tune with each foot happily in a different culture.

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There's also a great crooked version that Alan Jabbour plays which I think is on one of the Hollow Rock albums; I don't remember at the moment where Alan said he learned it. Another variant of that tune (of which there are variants in turn) is Shippingport, which was apparently the old name of the village which is now Louisville, KY.

Brendan

"Many thing un-understandable a chicken-hearted seems slim usually."
- from a Japanese shopping bag (printed in English)

Dan Gellert - Posted - 05/20/2008:  14:17:23

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quote:

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Originally posted by Paul Hostetter

I have two favorite Irish imports. One is Boyne water, which I first heard from Franklin George. He admitted he'd learned it from a book: Howe's Violin Tutor, a very old edition. The Boyne is a river in Ireland, but the tune is utterly appropriate (and big fun) in its American setting, whatever that could mean.

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A great tune, but there are places where it is decidedly inappropriate! It commemorates a major British victory over the Irish, and is still considered the musical equivalent of "fighting words" in some company.

Known in America for a very long time, it was used as the tune for "Backside Albany" ("The Battle of Plattsburgh') c.1815, one of the earliest published songs written in "negro" dialect.

Dan

Paul Hostetter - Posted - 05/20/2008:  19:34:10

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At the risk of rousing some ill will from folks ill-disposed to dialect anything, what were the words? I've heard "Backside of Albany" as a kindred tune, but never knew it had, um, a libretto. 1815 is indeed way back there!

Paul Hostetter, luthier
Santa Cruz, California
www.lutherie.net

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 05/20/2008:  21:40:04

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The lyrics actually were a description of the battle, but done in full minstrel show dialect. There is nothing particularly offensive about the words themselves, but like many songs of the era it is insulting more in terms of the entire context - like having a narrator who barely understands the incident, or who uses four bit words he doesn't comprehend, etc.

This is a fairly common comic device in stage songs of course (the English Music Hall had "Cockney" songs for example), but the minstrel show remains particuarly galling as it was pretty much the Only picture presented of blacks on the American stage -- including the movie screen, until after WWII.

Rocket Science Banjo, Chapters 1 - 4.6 REVISED and 25 EZ tunes are ready now
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You can watch the videos for some Rocket Science Banjo subjects starting here:
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BANJOJUDY - Posted - 05/21/2008:  09:32:55

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iI really thought there would be more posted on this topic. Here's a list I compiled (so far) - keep 'em coming. I'll get a list together in Excel and send it upon request (email inquiry@siliconheights.com). This is what I have so far. The titles blended together, but in the spreadsheet, they will appear as alternate titles.

A FAREWELL TO WHISKEY WALK CHALK CHICKEN WITH A NECKTIE ON
BOYNE WATER BACKSIDE ALBANY (THE BATTLE OF PLATTSBURGH)
BOYS OF BLUE HILL KEEP THE ARK A MOVIN
COLD FROSTY MORNING
COLEARAINE
CUCKOO'S NEST
FISHER'S HORNPIPE
GREEN FIELDS OF AMERICA
HASTE TO THE WEDDING
HONEYMOON REEL
KITTY AND THE BABY
KITTY'S WEDDING IRISH BOYS OF BLUEHILL
LORD MACDONALD'S REEL LEATHER BRITCHES
MISS MCLEOD'S REEL HOP HIGH LADIES
OVER THE WATERFALL
PORTLAIRGE ROSE TREE
RED HAIRED BOY LITTLE BEGGAR MAN
RICKETT'S HORNPIPE
SMITH'S REEL
TEETOATLERS REEL TEMPERANCE REEL
THE BLACKBIRD QUEEN OF THE EARTH AND CHILD OF THE SKIES WOUNDED HOUSIER WOUNDED HUSSAR
WAXIE'S DARGLE WESTERN COUNTRY
WIND THAT SHAKES THE BARLEY


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Don't Miss The Mary Z. Cox Albuquerque, NM
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oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 05/21/2008:  14:53:22

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The reason I haven''t jumped in with a few examples of Irish tunes that have become old time standards is simply because there are probably thousands of them. What isn''t Irish is Scottish with a bit of Welsh and a healthy slathering of English contry dance - all of which have cross-pollinated over the centuries.
I would be more inclined to say "Boatman" and "Coloured Aristocracy are tunes that shows very little of the Irish influence. Even New ORleans Jazz is heavily influenced by Celtic and British music -- plus some French and Spanish of course.

Rocket Science Banjo, Chapters 1 - 4.6 REVISED and 25 EZ tunes are ready now
oldwoodchuckb@yahoo.com
You can watch the videos for some Rocket Science Banjo subjects starting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdRuf4X0X7g
Banjo Brad is hosting How To Mold A Mighty Pinky adn other material at
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

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Edited by - oldwoodchuckb on 05/21/2008 14:53:22

BANJOJUDY - Posted - 05/21/2008:  15:12:32

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Lots of influence from other cultures is what makes our lives interesting - pertains for sure to the music.

When we go to a "celtic jam" we need to play a "celtic tune" and sometimes, when I play something that sounds celtic to me, (I did Colored Aristocracy once!) it might not be on the official list. That''s why I like lists - helps me prove a point on occasion.

Judy

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Don''t Miss The Mary Z. Cox Albuquerque, NM
visit June 19-22. Banjo and Mountain Dulcimer
Workshops scheduled. Email me for more info!
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Edited by - BANJOJUDY on 05/21/2008 18:08:19

Alba - Posted - 05/23/2008:  15:41:38

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quote:

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Originally posted by brudford

I believe Cold Frosty Morning was a song written about a battle between England and Scotland during the 16 th or 17th Century ?
The Scotts were wiped out ? Not Ireland but all the same British Iisles.

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No the Scots are still here "British Isles" however is a contentious description if you include Ireland ,being Scottish partly of Irish descent I would advise you to refer to "the best bits of Europe" rather than "british Isles"

Alba - Posted - 05/23/2008:  15:50:16

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I have given up trying to catergorise tunes into Scots,Irish, Northumbrian, Canadian,American etc, probably due to fact that someone somewhere will prove me wrong in my assumptions.
What I do like is when I try a tab and a tune I already know appears by magic! "sweet Betsy from Pike "being "Ould Orange Flute"
my latest discovery was Devils Dream (by way of a YOUTUBE video) which to me was as Scottish a Tune as I have ever heard (probably therefore Welsh!