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LyleK - Posted - 03/25/2008: 15:13:59
This is a spin-off of J-Walk's thread "Your Top-5 Favorite OT Tunes to Play" and Oldwoodchuckb's "25 (or so) Easy Clawhammer Tabs." Over the years I've come across a number of tunes that, much as I might like them, and much as I might work on them, I can never get them right...sigh. So here's my list, and my lame excuses:
1. Devil's Dream - I always get the on and offbeats inverted in the A part
2. Roustabout - I dunno', guess I'm just lame (but it's in the "25 or so..."!)
3. Cuckoo's Nest - The endless search for a tuning that will give me all the notes I want.
4. Bobbing for Eels - darn those jigs.
5. Chilly Winds - want to sound "just like Wade Ward" but never actually do.
So now I've come clean. Anyone else have evil nemesis tunes?
LyleK
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1084/
tabs at: http://lylek.home.insightbb.com/
J-Walk - Posted - 03/25/2008: 15:56:07
Good thread idea, LyleK. This will be interesting.
1. Big Scioti - I've watched Johnny Rawls on Youtube play this at least 50 times. It's the best version I've ever heard, and I'll be satisfied with nothing less. But that's a long way off.
2. Westphalia Waltz - Waltzes are usually difficult for me, but this one seems like it requires three hands or something.
3. West Fork Gal - There are a few measures in the B part that just don't seem like they belong. I'll get it eventually.
4. Country Blues - My problem is that I try to play it like Jim Pankey. And I can't.
5. Turkey In The Straw - I can play the B part fine, but the A part requires me to go very slow, every time.
freddfish - Posted - 03/25/2008: 16:05:12
Wild Goose Chase has been kicking my but for nearly a year now...just ONE little part.
Fred from Baltimore
"These boys is not white!! Hell, they ain't even old-timey!!"
-Homer Stokes, in "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?"
RedZinger - Posted - 03/25/2008: 16:07:12
A couple come to mind quickly:
Sullivan's Hollow -- That thing is really crooked and I love it, but I'm not sure I've ever played it right. I would really like some advice on playing crooked tunes -- help please!
Ken Perlman's arrangment of Fisher's Hornpipe. Love it, but that b part is insurmountable.
Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine -- again I love it, but there's a little rest and 1/8th note thingy in there that gets me almost every time.
Paddy on the Turnpike -- another melodic peice that's been bugging me for years. I gave up. There must be an easier version out there somewhere.
Skating on Harbor Front by Chris Coole. Sounds so nice when he plays it -- when I play it...
Almost any jig is a pita. Good thing I don't like them much.
I feel better now.
Rob
Edited by - RedZinger on 03/25/2008 16:11:58
tubaphone1927 - Posted - 03/25/2008: 17:23:29
I second Cuckoo's Nest. That song drives me nuts everytime I play it.
ScottK - Posted - 03/25/2008: 17:55:15
Fisher's Hornpipe is on my long-term nemesis list too, but in my case it's the Henry Sapoznik arrangement in The Banjo Picker's Fakebook. I could probably learn a simpler version, but it's such a good pinky and pull-off workout that I just keep chipping away at it.
On my short-term nemesis list right now I have Five Miles from Town and Sally Will You Marry Me. I suspect I just need to listen to them a lot more and do some woodshedding. Shamrock Shoddy is also on the short-term list after my fiddler buddy Joe Moore threw it out in a jam a few weeks ago. I have it worked out, but can't get the B part to flow well yet. I'm still trying to get Jump Jim Crow up to speed, too.
Scott
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 03/25/2008: 19:55:27
Five Miles To Town. I can't tell where the parts change - or even if they HAVE changed. There is only one recognizable theme and it seems to show up at random places. I've only tried to play it once however, so it might get easier.
A number of tunes just don't sit well on the banjo for me - but I tend to either not play them at all or only play them with people who are real fond of them - and then I just do my best to keep up a solid rhythm and toss in a few melody notes here and there.
Rocket Science Banjo, Chapters 1 - 4.1 REVISED is ready now
oldwoodchuckb@yahoo.com
You can watch the videos for some Rocket Science Banjo subjects starting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdRuf4X0X7g
maryzcox - Posted - 03/25/2008: 21:05:07
Hello,
Even though "Coo Coo's Nest" is not on my new CD, Florida Banjo--I'm going to tab out a simple tab to it and add it as a little bonus to my next tab book.
This is a pretty tune that really should never have to be that hard.
I have read over several tabs that are available to it and most of the ones I'v seen have fairly awkward fingering for that tune. :)
I better get out on the porch and get busy--because I still have about half the tabs to finish--then I have to write the book, put in the pix and tabs and all the rest. :) My local printer has already ordered the covers and paper. 
Best wishes,
Mary Z. Cox
www.maryzcox.com
If you suspect you need a new banjo--you do. Trust your musical instincts. If a banjo calls to you to buy it, don't fight destiny. It was meant to be. :)
ndlxs - Posted - 03/26/2008: 00:40:23
The hardest tune I do is on the Piney Creek Weasels CD Off To California, Music for a New-Found Harmonium..fun to play, but HARD, lose focus for a second and you are sunk!
Andy Alexis
Sacramento, Calif
SteveK - Posted - 03/26/2008: 07:11:16
Leather Britches. I don't know why, but I find it hard.
Coleraine. I was under the influence of the Melodic Clawhammer album when I tried this.
Three Thin Dimes. I finally learned it by leaving out a whole bunch of notes.
There's a Brown Skin Gal Down the Road Somewhere. Ditto the Dimes comment.
I tried a clawhammer version of Flowery Girls once.
John D - Posted - 03/26/2008: 09:58:39
Fun topic! Here are 5 tunes that have fought me for decades:
1. Tom Billy's Jig
2. Farewell to Ireland
3. Embryonic Journey (Jefferson Airplane guitar tune)
4. American Patrol (march I played in Jr. High band, but can't seem to CH it worth beans.)
5. Red Haired Boy (Pretty easy to play, but I inexplicably HATE this tune! My wife says it must be past life experience.
John D
trapdoor2 - Posted - 03/26/2008: 11:28:16
The way I figure, they're ALL "evil-nemesis" until suddenly, after a 5gal bucket of sweat, they become playable.
BTW, the version of "Devil's Dream" in the Briggs 1855 book IS inverted the way you play when you mess up. So, when you screw it up, just tell folks you're playing a very early version...
"Flowers of Edinburgh" is one I can never get right (and thus, rarely play). "Off To California" is just impossible CH...so I learned it on the Irish Tenor, where it is a piece of cake. 
===Marc
"If banjos needed tone rings, S.S. Stewart would have made them that way."
uncledelphi - Posted - 03/26/2008: 11:40:44
quote:
Originally posted by trapdoor2
"Flowers of Edinburgh" is one I can never get right (and thus, rarely play). "Off To California" is just impossible CH...so I learned it on the Irish Tenor, where it is a piece of cake.
Ha ha, now I know which tunes to call at our next jam!
Proud member of the Banjo Mafia
www.banjomafia.com
cashwo_wv - Posted - 03/26/2008: 13:03:12
For me it's Camp Chase.
------------------------------
trapdoor2 - Posted - 03/26/2008: 13:21:07
quote:
Originally posted by uncledelphi
quote:
Originally posted by trapdoor2
"Flowers of Edinburgh" is one I can never get right (and thus, rarely play). "Off To California" is just impossible CH...so I learned it on the Irish Tenor, where it is a piece of cake.
Ha ha, now I know which tunes to call at our next jam!
Ha, ha, yerself!
I'm callin' 2hrs of "Yellow Barber" right now...at least I can find my way around that one.
===Marc
"If banjos needed tone rings, S.S. Stewart would have made them that way."
slabounty - Posted - 03/27/2008: 10:16:27
Just curious, but with these evil tunes, is it the whole tune that's the problem or just some little piece (one or two measures) that's the problem. I'm working on the basic version of Whiskey Before Breakfast and there's one measure in the B part that I consistently have problems with. So ... I practice that measure, no problem; I practice the measure before it with that measure, no problem. Put it with the rest of the tune, problem. Oh well, I'll get it one day.
Scott LaBounty
Orange, CA
LyleK - Posted - 03/27/2008: 11:49:43
quote:
Originally posted by slabounty: is it the whole tune that's the problem or just some little piece (one or two measures) that's the problem?
At least in my experience (and I have a lot of experience at not being able to play tunes!) it is usually more than just a measure or so that causes the problems. One particular time that individual measures create issues are when they are in a different meter (e.g., versions of
Fort Smith, and
Five Miles From Town). But for those "ordinary" one or two measure problems here's a suggestion that is going to get me into a heck of a lot trouble because I'm going against convention. The "rules" say that you should play at a slower tempo until you get it down. I often do the reverse. I play the tune, or at least the problem area and some surrounding context as fast as I possibly can, even if it causes stumbles. Here's why:
1. Rhythm is everything, and when you play down tempo it can be harder to get the rhythm right.
2. There may be stuff in the version or tab that isn't really necessary, that is never going to work for you at a reasonable tempo, or that is going to go by so quickly that it doesn't matter if you just substitute, for example, some thumb on the fifth string.
3. And stylistically you'll start to find that your own "stuff" has a higher probability of slipping in when you are playing up tempo.
O.K., I'll take my knocks now. And I do play down tempo too, but only after I've made sure that what I'm trying to do has some possibility of working out in the long run.
LyleK
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1084/tabs at:
http://lylek.home.insightbb.com/
slabounty - Posted - 03/27/2008: 12:53:17
LyleK, Interesting advice. I'll at least give it a try. I must admit that it does seem a bit counter intuitive, but you've laid out some pretty good reasons why it might work.
Scott LaBounty
Orange, CA
Bart Veerman - Posted - 03/27/2008: 22:58:02
Funny you should mention Wade Ward's Chilly Winds - this is THE tune that got me wanting to play the banjo in the first place many, many moons ago; iIt was one of the tracks on an album I had bought back then. At the time I hadn't heard of Earl, three finger style or clawhammer - it was only banjo according to the liner notes. Like yourself, I now can play it and once I accepted the fact that nobody really sounds like Wade Ward anyways, it became a lot easier to play and I'm having fun with it even though it doesn't sound anything like Wade's version.
My nemissisumususses:
Gray/Grey Eagle - too many parts and where the heck's it go again after what-on-earth-was-that
Clogs at the Door - I shouda never written this one, too Celtic, too darn many triplets, what was I thinking...
Bart Veerman, Bridge Maker
the new Archies are here!
free tabs: http://haruteq.com
Richard - Posted - 03/29/2008: 10:48:16
At the moment:
Cuckoo's nest (glad to see i'm not alone)
St Anne's Reel ( have got a basic workable version but could be nicer)
Ebenezer ( got it all it down except for the last couple of bars, and it's been that way for a while)
but luckily if someone else does carry the melody we can leave out a few notes and not get too frustrated with ourselves.
"There is nothing whatsoever that does not become easier with acquaintance" - Santideva
hear my band: http://www.myspace.com/latitudefolkmusic
my own page: http://www.myspace.com/richbanjo
Stop by my homepage and hear my new tunes !
Bill Rogers - Posted - 06/24/2008: 16:41:45
Every tune I've ever tried to play like Walt Koken plays it.
Bill
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 06/24/2008: 16:55:21
I've got a new one
"Horse and Buggy-O" off "The Way It Was" by Martin and Fox. IT has a measure of 4 and a measure of 5 and a measure of 4 and 5 and 4 and 6 and --- you think I'm making this up, but I ain't. MY mind is flamenco trained and listens for tunes to come out "en compass" -- I can't explain that in non-flamenco terms. Usually I can accept extra beats but I find that one so slithery I hardly ever come out "right".
Rocket Science Banjo, Chapters 1 - 4.6 REVISED and 25 EZ tunes are ready now
oldwoodchuckb@yahoo.com
You can watch the videos for some Rocket Science Banjo subjects starting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdRuf4X0X7g
Banjo Brad is hosting How To Mold A Mighty Pinky adn other material at
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html
clawhammermike - Posted - 06/24/2008: 17:12:57
" Every tune I've ever tried to play like Walt Koken plays it."
I have to listen to him with my listening in envy ears and not my I am going to learn his version ears. plus he's already playing his version so we don't have to ( or can't ).
jgwoods - Posted - 06/24/2008: 17:44:57
Walt Kokens Indian Nation- darn thing is simple on the one hand and impossible on the other. I listen, I got some pieces, but there's a whole big something missing.
Be yourself- everyone else is taken
jojo25 - Posted - 06/25/2008: 06:22:04
Bonaparte's Retreat...getting that first slide/roll or whatever it is and doing the notey run in the bass...but I haven't given up.
some tunes that I struggle with in CH I opt to fingerpick...Off to California is one in that catagory for me...and sometimes I use fingerpicking as a transition learning tool to get to a CH version...after my left hand has the patterns down it gets easier
and I still haven't learned a single jig (6/8 time that is) in CH...though I fingerpick some of them...I esp. like Banish Misfortune in that regard
and a bit off topic...I've been trying to learn Nola (fingerpicking) for about 30 years...sigh
Drop thumbs, not bombs
Joe
slabounty - Posted - 06/25/2008: 07:21:44
quote:
Originally posted by J-Walk
1. Big Scioti - I've watched Johnny Rawls on Youtube play this at least 50 times. It's the best version I've ever heard, and I'll be satisfied with nothing less. But that's a long way off.
I just watched this and man you're right. That's some really nice playing on a song I'm trying to learn now. A bit of inspiration for me.
Scott LaBounty
Orange, CA
raybob - Posted - 06/25/2008: 08:31:16
Cuckoo's Nest was bothering me too. I'm going to have to rethink the B part. Turkey in the Straw is an adventure in G for me also. I feel good just getting through the first phrase, haven't even tried going up the neck yet. OMG!
Ray
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history." --G. Santayana
Bill Rogers - Posted - 06/25/2008: 11:13:41
Turkey was written in G...and when it was written G tunes were played in what is now C(D) positions because banjos were tuned lower. But it fiddles more easily in G.
Bill
speedtheplow - Posted - 06/25/2008: 13:35:33
Temperance Reel G
Ducks on the Pond A modal
Backberry Blossom G
Fisher's Hornpipe D
Durang's Hornpipe D
