Stoneface - Posted - 12/16/2007:  04:19:58

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Hi,

a few days ago, I saw a modified Deering Goodtime on zeppmusic.com which is called there "Zeppified Goodtime", with a scooped fretboard, a renaissance head, a moonbridge and a no-knot tailpiece.
This this looks very nice and after I heard the sound file of it, I only said: WOW !
Now I try to find the component parts here in Germany and around, which is not easy...

Anyway, I found a shop in Switzerland which has Stockwell moon bridges and my first question is, what thickness of the bridge would you recommend for the Goodtime Special, which has nickel plated steel flathead tone ring, a light, medium or heavy bridge ?

The other thing is the renaissance head. The only one I could find is a Remo with this description:
Remo Renaissance (6) high (1/2'') (H) 1015H6 10 15/16.
The only thing I know is, that high (1/2") (H) stands for "high crown" but I have no idea what height fits on the Goodtime Special and I can't do anything with the rest of the description...

Any information would be appreciated...

Thanks,

Oli

Stev187 - Posted - 12/16/2007:  09:50:33

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Oli:

Making the "Zepp" modifications to your Goodtime will make you happy. It really improves the banjo. You could get everything you need from Mr. Zepp himself, who I am sure will ship to you in Germany:

http://www.zeppmusic.com/

The size of bridge depends on your preference for action, not on the other parts. Moon bridges come in several heights; you might experiment with several different heights of cheap bridges first. The advantage of the Moon bridge is that it is "compensated."

You will need an 11" Renaissance head.

The No-Knot tailpiece runs about $10. You will need a different bracket to mount it.

Scooping the fingerboard can be accomplished by anyone with simple workshop tools. I did mine on a beltsander. Check out my page to see pictures.

The fellow who used my Goodtime for several months before I "Zeppified" it cannot believe it's the same instrument.

Steve
Flint, Michigan [USA]

george craciun - Posted - 12/16/2007:  10:19:47

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What is a "scooped fingerboard"? How does it work / what does it do (differently)?

Back Porch Picker

Stoneface - Posted - 12/16/2007:  10:58:01

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quote:

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What is a "scooped fingerboard"? How does it work / what does it do (differently)?

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Here`s a picture:


A scooped fingerboard makes it easier to play over the fretboard for clawhammer style...

Thank you Steve, for your reply.

I would prefer it to get exact these parts and buy them from zeppmusic. I already wrote an email to them last week, but I didn't get an answer yet, so I tried to help myself in the meantime and look for similar parts here in Europe...
Hmm, I think I'll better be patient and wait for the reply from Zepp...

quote:

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Scooping the fingerboard can be accomplished by anyone with simple workshop tools. I did mine on a beltsander. Check out my page to see pictures.

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Hmm I couldn't find the pictures Steve...
I thought about scooping the fingerboard on my own, but I'm not sure, if I should do it...
I have some skills in woodworking and I have the needed machines, but this scares me...

Oli

Bone - Posted - 12/16/2007:  15:23:25

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Oli, thanks for the opportunity to show off my scooping project again!!!

Here is a link to the pictures:
http://www.banjohangout.org/myhango...&albumid=456

If scooping is what you want, and you have the tools and the basic skills, it should be no problem. Go for it!

Of course, you could try a higher bridge first. Thay may be the easiest solution.

Pete

Stoneface - Posted - 12/16/2007:  15:57:56

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Pete:

You made the scoop free-hand with a power planer ?
Wow, that's brave... But the result speaks for itself, it looks great !
I would prefer a plunge router for that job...
Hmm, the longer I think about it, the more I want to do it...
Ok, if I could get the modification gear from Zepp, then I have to demount the head. This is a good time to go further and demount the neck as well. I think I'll give it a try then

Oli

Stev187 - Posted - 12/16/2007:  19:59:04

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quote:

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Originally posted by Stoneface
Hmm I couldn't find the pictures Steve...
I thought about scooping the fingerboard on my own, but I'm not sure, if I should do it...
I have some skills in woodworking and I have the needed machines, but this scares me...

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I will paste the pictures at the bottom of this e-mail, Oli. A couple of thoughts:

1) Zepp has a new baby at home, and is seldom at the shop. He has great folks working for him there, and the quickest thing to do is call them during biz hours in the Eastern Time Zone USA. The number is: 919-365-5189.

2) There is only one No-Knot tailpiece and Renaissance head available; no matter where you get the stuff, it will be the same. You should get it from Zepp, though, because he's cool. Remember, you'll need a new bracket to mount the No-Knot.

3) Neck removal is required to put on your new head. The Deering Goodtime has a simple coordinator rod, and it is super easy to remove and reattach. You should have no anxiety about this.

4) If you have a plunge router and know how to use it, you are more than up to the scoop job. In fact, that would be the tool par excellence for the job; I used an oscillating belt sander, which worked just fine. Scoop just below the 17th fret.

5) The black derlin position markers are set DEEP into this neck. If you want to keep one there (Zepp appears to do this) then remove it before the scoop, then re-install and sand/rout it down. I just plugged it with wood filler, which looks great to me. You'll also need to put a coat or two of finish on the scoop, otherwise it will get all grimy and yucky. I found that a standard urathane varnish matched the color perfectly (my pictures below are from before the varnish was applied).

I don't have photos of the finished banjo, as I leave it in my office at work. But it looks just like the pictures on Zepp's site. I think the Renaissance head makes the banjo much more attractive--it matches the color nicely.

Pictures below:





Steve
Flint, Michigan [USA]

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Edited by - Stev187 on 12/16/2007 20:02:13

Stev187 - Posted - 12/17/2007:  16:54:16

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Here's the banjo all finished. Love it!



Steve
Flint, Michigan [USA]

Stoneface - Posted - 12/17/2007:  18:33:13

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Steve:

The Banjo looks great, thanks for your feedback !
I'm now at the point that I'll start as soon as I can my little project "scooped fingerboard".
If everything goes well, I'll post a small tutorial with some pictures of my work...
But there's one thing I'm not shure about:
How to make a good finish to get nearly the same "satin" look of the wood ?
Maybe a colorless wax could give a good result...
Did you made a finish, Steve ?

Oli

Bone - Posted - 12/17/2007:  22:09:41

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Nice job Steve!

No Moon Bridge?!?!

Stev187 - Posted - 12/17/2007:  22:37:43

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bone
No Moon Bridge?!?!

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Thanks, Bone! The Moon Bridge is coming. I'm just waiting for a trip to Elderly or an excuse to put in a bigger order. But I do want a Moon bridge to get the whole "Zepp" effect. I know Zepp must think this is crazy, but it's fun.

And while we're at it, I was really amazed at what a difference these simple mods made to the banjo. I also think it looks a lot better.

Here's a photo of the scoop. Yes, Oli, I did varnish the raw wood. I had some satin oil-based varnish on the paint shelf from a very old project. Two quick coats worked fine, and it looks like an exact match. I would not want to finish an entire instrument this way, but it really is indistinguishable from the other finish--looks real nice on that maple.

Again, the hole for that black position marker on 19 is very deep. If you want to have it there, remove it and reinstall later. The plastic wood route looks fine, too.



One more thing: before anybody replaces the zero-fret/spike for the 5th string with a traditional pip, read what Zepp has said here on this forum about it. If it serves no other purpose, this is a banjo to work on fretting the fifth and playing up the neck.

Steve
Flint, Michigan [USA]

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Edited by - Stev187 on 12/17/2007 22:39:48

Stev187 - Posted - 12/17/2007:  23:13:06

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Oh, I just posted a quick sound sample of the Goodtime on my music page. No finished tune--just some noodling. It sounds pretty good.

Steve
Flint, Michigan [USA]

PaulKirby - Posted - 12/18/2007:  12:13:12

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What kind of bracket do I need before I mount the no-knot?

A man who plays the banjo has got it made. -Stringbean

PaulKirby - Posted - 12/18/2007:  12:28:42

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one more thing: have you replaced the nut?

A man who plays the banjo has got it made. -Stringbean

Stoneface - Posted - 12/18/2007:  16:46:51

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quote:

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What kind of bracket do I need before I mount the no-knot?

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I think you're looking for this one:
http://elderly.com/accessories/items/BA955.htm

Oli

Stev187 - Posted - 12/18/2007:  20:59:16

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quote:

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Originally posted by PaulKirby

What kind of bracket do I need before I mount the no-knot?

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The nut on my Goodtime was fine. Could replace it, but why?

My guess is that the standard bracket you mention will be too shallow for the No-Knot mounting screw. I just made my own out of some metal from the hardware store:



The problem with the bracket is that the tailpiece attachment needs to clear the end of the coordinator bolt, which is quite large on the Goodtime. I plan to re-do this in the future to make it more presentable, but I was anxious to get the tailpiece on there. Here's that standard tailpiece:




Steve
Flint, Michigan [USA]

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Edited by - Stev187 on 12/18/2007 21:00:33

country frank - Posted - 12/20/2007:  08:53:06

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Recently I was reading an bit on the very good 'savethebanjo' website about rolling a brass hoop for the goodtime. I did this exactly as the site suggested [i have access to a metal shop, rollers, etc.] and fitted this thing in.

Now perhaps its just me but....certainly there is a little more sustain than previously, which I like. There is a little more decay also, which I don't like, overall though i cant help wondering if the banjo has lost some of its 'personality' if you know what i mean. Okay, so the goodtime is no fancy banjo, heck I have 3 other, much fancier banjos to pick from. But the goodtimes, to my ear anyway, have a very clear and distinct voice which differs from pretty much every other banjo i have heard or played. Basically I am not sure if i have improved the sound of the instrument or not. Right now i am inclined to remove the hoop and hear the banjos original tone again.

Anyone else experienced this?

Regards from London.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cf...id=109679141

Stev187 - Posted - 12/20/2007:  09:22:44

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I am very taken with the sound of the Goodtime as is. A tonering will CHANGE the sound, not necessarily IMPROVE it. I am inclined to leave mine the way it is. I have other banjos with different tone rings.

Steve
Flint, Michigan [USA]

wildboar - Posted - 12/20/2007:  09:33:08

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Two nights ago I took the brass tone hoop out of my old Gold Tone and put it in my Goodtime II, then I removed it about an hour later. The Goodtime got a lot louder with the brass hoop, but I think it sounded worse. It's back to 'normal' now.

jazzylynne - Posted - 12/20/2007:  16:00:05

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I like the sound of the Goodtime. If I change anything on it, and I will, it will be cosmetic just cause I can.


OME

cardinbanjo - Posted - 12/20/2007:  19:04:32

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Zepp's are so nice am sure they would help you find and get the parts and explain how and why they chose them.
they are really good people and always willing to help you out

cardinbanjo

Stoneface - Posted - 12/23/2007:  13:19:23

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cardinbanjo:

Yes they are ! Got now answers from them, my first email landed in the spam folder...
I can get all neccessary stuff from Zepp, everything is fine now and I'm really looking forward to this project !
Next week I'll do the scoop :)

wildboar, country frank:

My Goodtime Special has a steel tone ring, it has a very, very bright sound (a little to bright, to my taste). I learn to play clawhammer and sometimes it's not easy to get a clear tone with the thumb on the 5th string. It easily sounds scratchy when the thumb moves on the string. I hope the heavy moon brigde and a no-knot tailpiece makes it a bit darker and compensate that...

If I could choose again, I would buy the "normal" Goodtime with no tone ring...

Oli

country frank - Posted - 01/02/2008:  09:23:35

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Oli, Wildboar and steve, I agree about the tone hoop changing the sound. Like you guys i am still out to lunch on whether or not it was worth fitting a hoop. I have played the banjo a while now without removing the hoop, reckon I am going to give it a few more weeks then switch back to standard. Like you say steve, I have other banjos with tone rings for that kinda sound, guess I forgot just why I bought the standard in the first place.

Regards from London.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cf...id=109679141

Stoneface - Posted - 01/11/2008:  04:57:08

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It's finished now ! The scoop took longer than I expected. It could be quite simple, if you just make a scoop, but I had to make it s-carved... I can not recommend to do this, I'll post the whole photostory on my homepage the next days.
But now everything is fine and I'm totally happy with it !!

Thanks to all who ecouraged me to go for it, especially Steve for the advice to order the whole gear from http://zeppmusic.com.
Marc from zeppmusic was very obliging and it was a great pleasure for me to get all the extras and every necessary information. perfectly wonderful !

Now here's my NEW Goodtime :



Oli