RB100 - Posted - 09/07/2009:  15:55:49

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As anyone who knows me is aware, I really like the style 1s and 2s as well as the RB100s. I was recently fortunate enough to find what appears to be an all original RB1 Reissue (1-9404-03) from the early to mid 90s:



Other photos are at my web site:

banjohangout.org/myhangout/pho...umid=3496

I plan on using this as a "book end" for a small collection of style 1s and 2s along with a 100 and this reissue. This is not meant to be a collection of immense street value, just a culmination of an informal project that seems to have been going on for about 35 years to this point.

The first "book end" for the collection is a 1926 TB1 conversion - 8254-28. As I am working on this project, I find a lot more information on the pre-war versions than this RB1 reissue. I would like to "pool the collective wisdom of this august group of very knowledgeable and opiniated banjoists in this matter."

Sort of like Wikapedia I know, but it certainly has a great interest for me and perhaps others as well. So, fire away! What do you know about this model? Why was it introduced? When? How long was it produced? Why was production stopped? How many were produced? ...and on...and on...

Thanks so much to each of you - contributors and lurkers alike!

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

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Edited by - RB100 on 09/07/2009 16:09:08

2many5s - Posted - 09/07/2009:  16:13:08

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I have two of them (different inlay patterns), both excellent banjos.

Although I do not know the first year, they were "Greg Rich Era" banjos.

As the scuttlebutt goes, Gibson was losing several hundred dollars on each banjo, so they pulled the plug.

There is a "new" Style 1( not the ill-fated Gibson RB), equipped with a tone ring available from Gibson. Gull inlay, double cut peghead and all.

RB100 - Posted - 09/07/2009:  16:26:35

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quote:

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Originally posted by 2many5s

I have two of them (different inlay patterns), both excellent banjos.

Although I do not know the first year, they were "Greg Rich Era" banjos.

As the scuttlebutt goes, Gibson was losing several hundred dollars on each banjo, so they pulled the plug.

There is a "new" Style 1( not the ill-fated Gibson RB), equipped with a tone ring available from Gibson. Gull inlay, double cut peghead and all.

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Thanks. For some reason, I just could not get interested in the RB and the 'new' RB1 with the tone ring kinda' seems to go against the makeup (to me) of style 1s...if they have a tone ring (unless they are a conversion), they are a Mastertone and Style 1's are not Mastertone's even when they have the OPF starting in the early 30s, I believe - again, in my very subjective opinion and taste.

I wonder if Greg is lurking??

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

flange5st - Posted - 09/07/2009:  16:29:45

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........I have one , too...( you can check it out on my homepage)............the way I understand it, their was about 64 built in total over an six year period.........mine was made in 1993......gull inlays, no binding on the neck, bound curly maple resonator..1/4" brass hoop on the outer edge of the rim....a good bright sounding banjo........maybe grich might chime in and add some hard facts to the whens and whys of production........peace

......ad fontes..........

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Edited by - flange5st on 09/07/2009 16:31:17

flange5st - Posted - 09/07/2009:  16:33:17

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.....the interesting thing about the banjo is that the peg head is a " double-cut" and the ones made in the 1930's were mostly fiddle shaped............peace

......ad fontes..........

RB100 - Posted - 09/07/2009:  16:39:31

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quote:

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Originally posted by flange5st

.....the interesting thing about the banjo is that the peg head is a " double-cut" and the ones made in the 1930's were mostly fiddle shaped............peace

......ad fontes..........

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Looks like our tastes are similar. I, too, would have preferred a fiddle shaped peg head...I enjoyed seeing the 26 Nick Lucas diamond flange 2 you have and the 150 with the cam tuners.

Thanks for the info!

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

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Edited by - RB100 on 09/07/2009 16:42:26

3fingers - Posted - 09/07/2009:  17:21:57

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I have always like the RB-1. A friend of mine used to have pre war (cant remember the year) but his was a conversion with a full tonering and if I remember correctly it was a OLD conversion, I'll have to ask him next time I talk to him. I remember he traded a Granada for it and it was worth it cause it was a GOOD sounding banjo. Gibson has a limited edition "style 1" that has the full gull inlay with a full weight tone ring. I think the Gibson List price was $5100 and the sale price from First Quality is either $4600 or $4700. and they are only making 15 of them

Craig
myspace.com/borrowedtyme2
Come along down to the barnyard lets have us a little banjer pickin
Jeremiah 6:16
Romans 3:23, 6:23, 5:8 10:9, 10:13, 1st John 5:10-13.

RB100 - Posted - 09/07/2009:  17:40:31

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quote:

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Originally posted by 3fingers

I have always like the RB-1. A friend of mine used to have pre war (cant remember the year) but his was a conversion with a full tonering and if I remember correctly it was a OLD conversion, I'll have to ask him next time I talk to him. I remember he traded a Granada for it and it was worth it cause it was a GOOD sounding banjo. Gibson has a limited edition "style 1" that has the full gull inlay with a full weight tone ring. I think the Gibson List price was $5100 and the sale price from First Quality is either $4600 or $4700. and they are only making 15 of them

Craig
myspace.com/borrowedtyme2
Come along down to the barnyard lets have us a little banjer pickin
Jeremiah 6:16
Romans 3:23, 6:23, 5:8 10:9, 10:13, 1st John 5:10-13.

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I'm just wondering what the rationale was to reissue a limited number of Style 1s with a full tone ring? Perhaps the popularity of converting the older tenor to 5s with a tone ring and perhaps adding a one piece flange as well??

I am adding a photo or two of a couple of the conversions to my web site...

banjohangout.org/myhangout/pho...umid=3496

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

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Edited by - RB100 on 09/07/2009 18:02:01

3fingers - Posted - 09/07/2009:  17:55:26

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I dont know why they made a reissue of a banjo that was never actually produced in the same configuration that they are reissuing them in. But I kinda figure they are cashing in on the prewar "look" and popularity of vintage banjo's right now. Gibson made a limited production run of 15 of these "style1" banjos and at the same time they made a limited run of RB-75 VL's ( VL stands for vintage lacquer because its the same lacquer they finished them with in the 1930's) and they only made 15 of these also. They are both the same price

Craig
myspace.com/borrowedtyme2
Come along down to the barnyard lets have us a little banjer pickin
Jeremiah 6:16
Romans 3:23, 6:23, 5:8 10:9, 10:13, 1st John 5:10-13.

3fingers - Posted - 09/07/2009:  17:56:55

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oh and the RB 75 VL comes with the Crowe tone ring in it the Style one has a regular gibson ring

Craig
myspace.com/borrowedtyme2
Come along down to the barnyard lets have us a little banjer pickin
Jeremiah 6:16
Romans 3:23, 6:23, 5:8 10:9, 10:13, 1st John 5:10-13.

dhergert - Posted - 09/07/2009:  19:22:48

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I suspect Gibson's advantage in making limited production banjos that are like conversions being (re)built today is so they can claim a trademark on them. They've had that interest for quite some time.

Best,

-- Don
youtube.com/user/dh5string
home.att.net/~dhergert
mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert


"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don't wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.

DHutchens - Posted - 09/08/2009:  04:28:02

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Just a quick note.

The RB 1 was something that Greg and I talked alot about. We wanted to be able to offer an entry model Gibson, so we could basically sell someone an entry model instrument with the option of upgrading that instrument or at least bringing them along with the Gibson family of banjos, but it was difficult to create a "Gibson" with the appropriate "Gibson" quality appointments even in 1991 dollars.
The first reissue RB1 was shown at the 1991 NAMM show in California.
The first instrument was 1-9101-1 was assembled Jan. 3 1991
According to serial numbers there were 94 built by July 17th of that year. My other serial number book is at home but if you are insterested I'll pull those up and send a note tomorrow.

Doug

RB100 - Posted - 09/08/2009:  05:01:55

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quote:

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Originally posted by DHutchens

Just a quick note.

The RB 1 was something that Greg and I talked alot about. We wanted to be able to offer an entry model Gibson, so we could basically sell someone an entry model instrument with the option of upgrading that instrument or at least bringing them along with the Gibson family of banjos, but it was difficult to create a "Gibson" with the appropriate "Gibson" quality appointments even in 1991 dollars.
The first reissue RB1 was shown at the 1991 NAMM show in California.
The first instrument was 1-9101-1 was assembled Jan. 3 1991
According to serial numbers there were 94 built by July 17th of that year. My other serial number book is at home but if you are insterested I'll pull those up and send a note tomorrow.

Doug

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Thanks so much, Doug. This is exactly the kind of information that I was hoping that you, Greg, and others with personal knowledge of this instrument would be able to provide. And please do give us any additional information you feel comfortable in sharing - including about serial numbers, numbers of instruments, etc.

Again, much appreciated!

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

flange5st - Posted - 09/08/2009:  06:03:05

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quote:

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Originally posted by DHutchens

Just a quick note.

The RB 1 was something that Greg and I talked alot about. We wanted to be able to offer an entry model Gibson, so we could basically sell someone an entry model instrument with the option of upgrading that instrument or at least bringing them along with the Gibson family of banjos, but it was difficult to create a "Gibson" with the appropriate "Gibson" quality appointments even in 1991 dollars.
The first reissue RB1 was shown at the 1991 NAMM show in California.
The first instrument was 1-9101-1 was assembled Jan. 3 1991
According to serial numbers there were 94 built by July 17th of that year. My other serial number book is at home but if you are insterested I'll pull those up and send a note tomorrow.

Doug

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.........Doug, that would be great...this means there were alot more than sixty somthing of these made in total.......do you know how many were the dot inlay and how many were the gull?.......peace

......ad fontes..........

Ebanjo - Posted - 09/08/2009:  15:38:03

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I sure liked the early 90's RB-1's too. If I'm not mistaken, I think this new style 1 with the tone ring is the parts they had left over from where they were going to make a signature model for a certain well known banjo player and evidently the deal fell through. It's a nice banjo, but a bit pricey I think.
Eric Ellis

RMarshall - Posted - 09/08/2009:  19:26:09

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doug
i you used to worked for gibson didn't you i did not see your name mentioned when ed webber mentioned the names why were you not in the list
Greg Rich Nick Kimmons, Jim Triggs, Mathew Kline, Alan Bass, Keith Medley, Phil Jones, Jackie Miller, and Dave Harvey, Bob Day
Ren Ferguson, Charlie Derrington were mentioned but not you

did you really work there
i sat many times and lisented to you tell stories about while working for them

or are you also jim hutchens that joe span mentioned in his recent post

r

DHutchens - Posted - 09/09/2009:  04:11:09

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r I just checked out your profile and I remember when you used to come by the firehouse. I hope the life as a "Snowbird" is working well for you.
Yep, I was there from 86 as Consultant then Artist Relations/ Product Manager then Consultant again before I left in 93.
Ed and I corresponded recently and realized we met a few times way back when. No I'm not the same person as Jim. I think if I remember correctly he spelled his last name Hutchins and came from Kalamazoo when Gibson moved south.
I'll spend some time as I have the time on my blog about my time at Gibson. I do not want to hijack this topic.


In looking at my records I was a little off. Actually the first RB1 Reissue was assembled on October 5th 1990, 1-9010-1.
Then on October 23 1-9010-2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 were assembled which has the notation Cherry Finish.
On November 1st 1-9011-8 was assembled and noted with Gull wing.
There were a flurry of RB1’s assembled in December and beginning with 1-9012-40 they then had the note of either a “G” or “C” following them. At first I thought it might be just meaning all RB1 inlay’s but the ones that are “C”s are definitely not “G”s. on Dec 20, 1990 the last instrument that was assembled in 1990 was 1-9012-47 C.

1991
Kind of interesting that the first banjo assembled is Jan 2, 91 RB1 1-9012-48. Nick must have not gotten it totally ready for shipping on the last day of work in 90.

Then as I shared earlier 1-9101-1 was assembled Jan. 3 1991
According to serial numbers there were 94 built by July 17th of that year. No others are listed for 91.

1992
In April 1992 RB1’s again were built with the first one 1-9204-1 going to George Gruhn.
The last RB1 for 92 was number 1-9205-8

1993
1-9301-01 (amber brown) was assembled on January 13th
1-9301-02 (Cherry) assembled the same day.
In 1993 my records end on July 1 and I show that 1-9306-32 being assembled on June 21st.

I left the company about this time and I’m not sure what happened after that.

Hope this helps some.

Doug

RB100 - Posted - 09/09/2009:  04:19:46

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quote:

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Originally posted by DHutchens

r I just checked out your profile and I remember when you used to come by the firehouse. I hope the life as a "Snowbird" is working well for you.
Yep, I was there from 86 as Consultant then Artist Relations/ Product Manager then Consultant again before I left in 93.
Ed and I corresponded recently and realized we met a few times way back when. No I'm not the same person as Jim. I think if I remember correctly he spelled his last name Hutchins and came from Kalamazoo when Gibson moved south.
I'll spend some time as I have the time on my blog about my time at Gibson. I do not want to hijack this topic.


In looking at my records I was a little off. Actually the first RB1 Reissue was assembled on October 5th 1990, 1-9010-1.
Then on October 23 1-9010-2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 were assembled which has the notation Cherry Finish.
On November 1st 1-9011-8 was assembled and noted with Gull wing.
There were a flurry of RB1’s assembled in December and beginning with 1-9012-40 they then had the note of either a “G” or “C” following them. At first I thought it might be just meaning all RB1 inlay’s but the ones that are “C”s are definitely not “G”s. on Dec 20, 1990 the last instrument that was assembled in 1990 was 1-9012-47 C.

1991
Kind of interesting that the first banjo assembled is Jan 2, 91 RB1 1-9012-48. Nick must have not gotten it totally ready for shipping on the last day of work in 90.

Then as I shared earlier 1-9101-1 was assembled Jan. 3 1991
According to serial numbers there were 94 built by July 17th of that year. No others are listed for 91.

1992
In April 1992 RB1’s again were built with the first one 1-9204-1 going to George Gruhn.
The last RB1 for 92 was number 1-9205-8

1993
1-9301-01 (amber brown) was assembled on January 13th
1-9301-02 (Cherry) assembled the same day.
In 1993 my records end on July 1 and I show that 1-9306-32 being assembled on June 21st.

I left the company about this time and I’m not sure what happened after that.

Hope this helps some.

Doug

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Doug,
This is great information! Thanks so much. I hope you will continue to share your knowledge as we piece together the info on what I think is a wonderful instrument and now that I actually own one, I can say is living up to my expectations.

Of course, I don't know if you have the info or would care to comment on why the headstock was double cut as opposed to fiddle shaped (as many of originals) or why the model was discontinued.

Again, thanks so much!

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

DHutchens - Posted - 09/09/2009:  04:32:53

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another quick note

The double cut peghead was being used on the other reissues at the time and we thought it would be neat to make it a little different from the older model.

The origionals were as you mentioned fiddle and some utilized the earlier neck blanks that were still around (remember they didn't throw anything away) that some call the coke bottle peghead.

The reissue 1 was never a real big seller and at the price it was offered at it was difficult to justify staying in the catalog without using cheaper parts and that was never in our plans. We tried to create that entry point instrument but it was just not feasible but I'm glad that Henry and Dave gave us the opportunity to give it a shot.

Doug

RB100 - Posted - 09/09/2009:  04:37:36

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quote:

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Originally posted by DHutchens

another quick note

The double cut peghead was being used on the other reissues at the time and we thought it would be neat to make it a little different from the older model.

The origionals were as you mentioned fiddle and some utilized the earlier neck blanks that were still around (remember they didn't throw anything away) that some call the coke bottle peghead.

The reissue 1 was never a real big seller and at the price it was offered at it was difficult to justify staying in the catalog without using cheaper parts and that was never in our plans. We tried to create that entry point instrument but it was just not feasible but I'm glad that Henry and Dave gave us the opportunity to give it a shot.

Doug

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Thanks, Doug,
Again, great information and logical from a business standpoint. I have always like the coke bottle shaped peghead as well and am looking at possibly using that for a five string neck on an old tenor conversion - keeping the pot "as original".

The 'cool factor' would be high (at least for me) for an instrument like that.

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

DHutchens - Posted - 09/09/2009:  11:04:49

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I kind of like the coke bottle pegheads. I’ve owned 3 of them all orig 5's . The last I traded to George Gruhn which is on his list now JA5665 Gibson RB-1 has an original Mastertone decal in it. That serial number group had several strange instruments in it. The one Clarence Hall owns came out with a diamond and snowflake FB pattern and a coke bottle peghead, a couple of others I know of had Mastertone decals as well. Guess it was just a point where they said boys its time to clean the bins and get this stuff out of here.

Doug

southerndrifter - Posted - 09/09/2009:  14:03:35

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quote:

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Originally posted by DHutchens

I kind of like the coke bottle pegheads. I’ve owned 3 of them all orig 5's . The last I traded to George Gruhn which is on his list now JA5665 Gibson RB-1 has an original Mastertone decal in it. That serial number group had several strange instruments in it. The one Clarence Hall owns came out with a diamond and snowflake FB pattern and a coke bottle peghead, a couple of others I know of had Mastertone decals as well. Guess it was just a point where they said boys its time to clean the bins and get this stuff out of here.

Doug

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Doug, I've been informed of an RB-1, SN 3792-14, with fiddle-style peghead, dot inlay and a full "Mastertone" decal. It supposedly resides here in Rockingham Co., but I haven't seen it yet.

Lynwood Lunsford


If we had some ham, we could have some ham & eggs.........if we had some eggs!

bowfinger - Posted - 09/09/2009:  15:55:57

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Here's a link to Bob Day's site. He worked at Gibson early 90's. This is about finish changes he made to the line. It includes some info on the RB-1.
bobday.us/blog/workshop/69-mas...-iii.html



I did own a 1993 model RB-1. I sold it several months ago to a hangout member. It was nicely flamed brown finish with the gull inlays. I always wished the fretboard had been bound.
I like the newest version of the "RB-1 Custom" banjo. I bought a neck that had this exact pattern months ago. So the RB-1 is not a completely unpopular inlay style. So I don't see why not re-issue it as a Mastertone with the modifications. Many folks like a tone ring in there you know.

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Edited by - bowfinger on 09/09/2009 16:00:11

DHutchens - Posted - 09/10/2009:  04:21:03

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yep Lynwood
There are all sorts of interesting instruments around. The Florentine that I got from George didn't have a decal or a serial number we thought and it was shipped on Jan 22 1942 but after looking closer we found the serial number dash was about 5 or 6 from one of Steve Martins Florentines. This one had a style 1 fingerboard and 6 peghead with another serial number on the back of the peghead which was one dash different from Dick Smiths Florentine. We really need to start another thread about Gibson oddities so as not to hijack the RB1.

Yep the RB1 we reissued were with out neck binding, but just that would have added to the cost and was one of the things I really wish we could have done. There were some reissues special ordered with bound fingerboards, and if I remember correctly with fiddle pegheads, we had the means to do it as the RB 250 still had the fiddle peghead but it was a little longer than the prewar fiddle shapes. I just wish I'd gotten one.

Doug

RB100 - Posted - 09/10/2009:  04:47:17

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Folks, we are gathering some great information here. I would love to see one of those re-issues with the fiddle peg head and bound finger board. Anyone have photos to contribute? Also, I would love to photos of a re-issue 1 that has the different fingerboard inlay to mine. Does this have the "inverted bud" peg head inlay or the fleur-de-lis???

I am also glad to see these less ornate instruments hold a special place for others as well as myself.

Again, thanks to all and keep the info coming in! Were all re-issues maple? Maybe others special ordered in mahogany or walnut?

Thanks again,

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

NDJohn - Posted - 09/19/2009:  18:12:20

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1-9301-09

Picked it up on eBay early in July. I haven't gotten around to working with this one very much, but it has the potential to be a fine banjo. Brown, fine condition, gulls, unbound, double-cut, inverted bud. Just like the one in your first post.

I'm very fond of playing this banjo (though I haven't done so very much).

Best,

John

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John Miller
ej.miller@ndsu.edu or ejmiller@ideaone.net

silvioferretti - Posted - 09/20/2009:  00:41:14

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A friend of mine bought a TB-1 conversion several years ago (I'd say about 10 years or so), and it had a neck like that, no binding, brown stain and all, only in mahogany. I could bet my... whatever that it was an Ed Weber neck, great profile and all, but do you guys know of any mahogany RB-1 reissue that was made, from which this neck could have been taken?

My friend didn't like the no-binding thing and was not crazy about the inlay pattern (man... I think it's SO cool...), so I built him a new neck and bought this wonderful neck from him. Then I put together a pot (mahogany resonator) and stuck the style-1 neck on it and sold it to a guy who won't sell it for no reason! I may have some pics of this neck somewhere, GOK where though.

"If you're gonna have a vice, try to find one that will keep you outta jail and maybe alive a little longer" - Alvin Youngblood Hart.

Silvio Ferretti scorpionmusic.com
redwinemusic.net

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Edited by - silvioferretti on 09/20/2009 00:42:01

RB100 - Posted - 09/20/2009:  05:25:20

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The thread of "Our pictures of other banjo players"

banjohangout.org/forum/topic.a...chpage=47

(scroll to the bottom of page 47) has a nice photo of Zach Gilmer playing a Style 1 with fiddle shaped peg head that I usually think of with the RB 1...I like the pearl (or white) truss rod cover - not sure about the configuration of the pot, but I do know some great music comes from CHHR!

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

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Edited by - RB100 on 09/20/2009 05:33:15

RT - Posted - 01/13/2010:  15:19:08

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I bet the C or G relates to the inlays. G being gulls and C being circles or dots.

Dhutchins wrote
On November 1st 1-9011-8 was assembled and noted with Gull wing.
There were a flurry of RB1’s assembled in December and beginning with 1-9012-40 they then had the note of either a “G” or “C” following them. At first I thought it might be just meaning all RB1 inlay’s but the ones that are “C”s are definitely not “G”s. on Dec 20, 1990 the last instrument that was assembled in 1990 was 1-9012-47 C.

justryin2play - Posted - 01/13/2010:  16:28:25

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I own 1-9012-46, and it has neither "C" or "G" following the S/N.

It does have the dot inlay though.

It must have been near the end of the run in Dec. of 1990

2many5s - Posted - 04/24/2010:  10:48:06

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In 1993 my records end on July 1 and I show that 1-9306-32 being assembled on June 21st.

I own this banjo and it is really a nice one, with great sound.