I saw that ,, goes to show that we hear tone differently when playing than when listening- we hear the sound from above when playing. And then there’s that right hand working differently with various players.  A couple of years ago at a jam I swapped banjos for a few tunes with a friend who had a Stelling Staghorn - I liked it but not as much as I predicted,,, & he wasn't exactly raving about my old TB-1 conversion either when we exchanged back. Go figure.... I think players find the sweet spot / technique for their instruments. If Tony had played Earl's Granada for a while I think he'd find it. 
A few months ago I got out my RK77 which I hadn't played in a while - yuk, it sounded like a cheap bottlecap! After 15 minutes it all came back to the fine tone I remembered as if it had human traits and had to wake up from a long slumber. 

I think that there are a couple of important considerations with this issue.

First, the sound behind an acoustic instrument is different from the sound in front of the instrument. When you're playing the instrument, you can't really hear what it sounds like in front of the instrument while you're playing it. It's a paradox.

Next, I would say that there are three things that determine the sound of any particular banjo. First, there's the banjo. Second, there's the way a player uses his right hand. Third, there's the type of finger picks the player uses and how he shapes and wears them.

It's been my observation that amateur and professional players alike have expended a great amount of effort copying what Scruggs played, but very few have made much of an effort to analyze and copy how he used his right hand and his picks.

There's a 4th thing that probably affects tone more than anything else: the recording equipment, the mastering process, and the playback equipment.

Most people have never heard Scruggs play live. They know his tone from old recordings from the 50s and 60s. Nowadays, most people are listening to compressed MP3 files through cheap Bluetooth earbuds. It seems to me that those recordings probably don't sound exactly like he actually sounded.

I'll strongly second what KCJONES wrote about the sound equipment used. I first heard Earl Scruggs ' playing more than 50 years ago. It was through a vinyl album played on a cheap home record player. I've never heard a banjo sound better! These days I have access to much higher quality kit, and technically superior recordings of many of the banjo greats, but that magical tone isn't produced.

But the OP wasn’t talking about recordings,, it was about the on-hands playing of a superior instrument. wadr

Interesting comments from Tony and Joe.

I remember decades ago a short article in Bluegrass Unlimited involved Li'l Roy Lewis commenting on being in the Gibson factory (Nashville I think) and seeing Earl's banjo on the bench getting some work done, and no one being there to prevent it, Roy started looking it over. First comment -- the tone ring was on so loose that he could "spin it" on the rim, which he DID. Also he had a chance to play it soon thereafter and he said he found it "tubby".

I think every player invests a lot of time in finding the sweet or satisfactory spot to play his/her banjo that pleases them as the player. After all, who gets to hear their banjo as the audience hears it? I know I'm often surprised to hear recordings of my banjo playing "from the board". I have a video of the only time I played at Winterhawk Festival, with audio recorded from the sound board, and I was THRILLED how great that banjo sounded! Other times I hear tape of my banjo and am completely unimpressed if not disappointed in how it sounds.

Listening to Jim Mills play "Hide Head" banjos on CD was glorious and made one wonder "how does he get that great sound?" Then you stand right in front of him in his showroom and listen to him play 6 feet away and realize he played harder than probably anyone I'd ever met! For whatever reason, it suited Jim to play like thunder.

And from my own experience I know that different banjos feel/sound different to me when I'm picking on them and consequently I guess I must be putting out a different "sound" to listeners -- and I do get different sweet spots on all of them -- that all seem to sound a bit different to me.

It's no question to me that it's the combination of banjo and player that creates their sound. The story is oft-told, and I believe it originated with Chet Atkins, someone complimented Chet on how great his guitar sounded and he held it out at arm's length and said "how does it sound now?".

Finally I have an old audio tape of a Martha White radio show where Earl introduced his new Vega banjo, and he played Foggy Mtn Breakdown on it. Sounded just like Earl of course. I defy anyone to have known it wasn't the ole Gibson without hearing the introductory comments!

I'm curious if, given additional time with the instruments, that these world class players couldn't find the sweet spot/hand position to pull the tone out that they know it's capable of producing.

I always have heard that Earl sounds like Earl no matter what banjo he played. Was that applicable to the tone he could get from any banjo, or just that his distinctive play style was recognizable regardless of instrument?

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Originally posted by localhost

I always have heard that Earl sounds like Earl no matter what banjo he played. 

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And we all sound like ourselves no matter what banjo(s) we play.

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Originally posted by arnie fleischer

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Originally posted by localhost

I always have heard that Earl sounds like Earl no matter what banjo he played. 

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And we all sound like ourselves no matter what banjo(s) we play.

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And yet we chase (rather than practice) . . . .

My ODE Style C is the one I mostly practice on at home, muted with a cloth under the strings and clothes pegs on the bridge. (due to neighbours with pugnacious tendencies who work oddball shifts).  It’s got hard SS frets so I figure they’ll last; so today for the first time in months I took it out to the market for busking. I was in awe I good it sounded,, lots of pop, note separation, and volume. Go figure,, I did nothing different than yesterday when I played my RK77 which I thought sounded fine, but the ODE topped it by a lot.
(so I suggest everyone practice like this henceforth…… ;-)

I have a 2005 Gold Star GF85 with its original head of that period. There was a big difference in tone between it and my RK 80. The GS had a 'dry crack' to it (yes, I know it is rather subjective). The RK was quite ringy. I ended up selling the RK.
Prior to getting a drum dial, I set up banjos by ear, eye and feel. I had a friend skim a bit of wood from the rim on his lathe to slightly 'loosen' the tone ring on the rim. It fitted snuggly but not tight. I tried a hide head on it and didn't Iike the sound at all. I re-set it up with the original head using my procedure and I noticed the improvement. I have since tightened the head to 88 using the drum dial and am evaluating it over time. When I originally measured with the dial, the head was set to around 85 (from the previous set up).

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Originally posted by Brian Murphy

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Originally posted by arnie fleischer

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Originally posted by localhost

I always have heard that Earl sounds like Earl no matter what banjo he played. 

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And we all sound like ourselves no matter what banjo(s) we play.

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And yet we chase (rather than practice) . . . .

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Can we please stop being so profound? All this inner reflection is distracting me from trying to sound exactly like Earl.

After playing the jo since I adjusted the head, I re-set it back to 85. Somehow it sounds better to my ear. I felt that 88 was too tight. I will monitor it.

I think we instinctively learn to get the best tone out of the instruments we own and play regularly. A few years ago at a festival I stuck my picks in my pocket and went out to listen to others play. I came up a jam with some friends, and after a while the banjo player - who I knew slightly but not well at all - said,"Why don't you take my banjo for a while - I'll leave the case outside my trailer and you can put it in there when you're done." I was taken aback, but couldn't refuse. No one complained, but although his custom-made banjo sounded great in his hands I felt I couldn't get anything out of it no matter what I tried. The next morning I pulled my banjo out and sounded the same as always, but that only made me feel worse about the night before. Now I always put my banjo over my shoulder in a gig bag when I go out to wander.

And yes, I was nervous leaving his banjo unattended in the dark at his campsite like he asked. I never saw him again for the rest of the festival, but I never heard that he was looking for it, so it must have been there in the morning. Those were different times.

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Originally posted by localhost

Can we please stop being so profound? All this inner reflection is distracting me from trying to sound exactly like Earl.

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I don't recall who posted this a few months back, but a can or two should do the trick.

Fwiw, IF I ever "pull tone" from a banjo I'll either sell it or relegate it to the darkest corner of a back-bedroom closet.  

I’ve noticed that when I play the first few notes on my banjo, it doesn’t sound so great. But after ten or fifteen minutes, it starts to sound fine. I don’t know if it’s my fingers limbering up and hitting the strings better, or if the banjo needs a warm up time, or if my ears become acclimated to the sound. Maybe, when playing a strange instrument, even a well known one like Earl’s or Sonny’s, it takes even more time to get the good tone out of it.

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Originally posted by Owen

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Originally posted by localhost

Can we please stop being so profound? All this inner reflection is distracting me from trying to sound exactly like Earl.

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I don't recall who posted this a few months back, but a can or two should do the trick.

Fwiw, IF I ever "pull tone" from a banjo I'll either sell it or relegate it to the darkest corner of a back-bedroom closet.  

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Just ordered 4 cans. I haven't received it yet, but 5 stars, I can already feel it working. Looking forward to using it.

Years ago, I went to hear the Kruger Brothers in a small venue up here in the mountains. Walking across the parking area, I saw Jens leave their bus and stride across a long lawn to the venue building. I shamelessly cut him off to meet him. I asked if he would sign my banjo and he graciously agreed. I ran back to the car and when I returned, Jens dropped to a seated position on the lawn, took my Hatfield and played it. What a gentleman !! We visited for a long time. I've had many high-end banjos and always felt that the Hatfield sounded the best to me, and I love it but, Holy Smoke,... the tone that Jens pulled was astounding !! I'm sure if my banjo could talk, it would have said, "let me go home with this guy !"

I have been fortunate to play 2 of the 9584 batch over the years. Neither was Earl's or Sonny's , but still highly valued. I knew I was holding history, but neither impressed me in sound or playability. I have always preferred mahogany banjos for tone and still do, but in other's hands, those old Granadas were magic.

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Originally posted by arnie fleischer

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Originally posted by localhost

I always have heard that Earl sounds like Earl no matter what banjo he played. 

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And we all sound like ourselves no matter what banjo(s) we play.

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Yes and no.

Years ago I saw a David Grier solo concert. For about half of the show he played a laminated Kay flattop from the '60s. He sounded like David Grier playing a really crappy guitar.  ;^)

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Originally posted by chuckv97

But the OP wasn’t talking about recordings,, it was about the on-hands playing of a superior instrument. wadr

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Or supposedly superior instrument... due to fame of player, (often from recordings or on stage performance).

Lots of accounts of all sorts of instruments where, without legend story or fame (or vintage)... just blind test picking the instrument up and playing it; would not be really be considered superior in playability or tone.

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But the mention of recording does point out an aspect... about what we might associate the tone of players, (or vocal); from mostly experiencing the sound from it coming out of a speaker. Even in live stage performances. Starts with choice of a mic and placement (single point in sound field)... which will color the tone. Goes through all sorts circuitry, impedance, tubes, transformers, FET, op-amps, tone stack, EQ, saturation, compression... eventually to choice of speaker. All of that involve choice about shaping/coloring the sound. If in a mix, it's about how it is perceived as sits in the mix. (recording wise, vinyl and tape are even more coloring). This can be much different than how instrument sounds acoustically, in hand, or few feet away.

well i have had the privilege to play 2 of those iconic banjos. the sonny granada and jim mills mack crow banjo. when i played sonnys banjo it sounded like me playing a good banjo,, nothing like it did when sonny played it. and with jim we happened to be back stage together in virginia and he had the mack crow with him. i had my 11 with me... he was starting to warm up and get loose so i walk over and introduce myself.... first thing i ask "is that the mack crow ?" he grinned and said yeah it is,, you wanna play it. well heck yeah.
so i set mine down ,, he ask what you got in there,, i said an old 11 conversion.. he ask do you mind ,, of course i said no .
i started pick his banjo and was not impressed with it so much.. i mean it sounded good but not jim mills good. but when he cut loose on my 11 it was like KA-BOOM ,, that banjo never sounded so good...
so from my experience it is as much the hands as it is the banjo..
but thats why the older pickers were lured toward those old pre wars..... there just had that something they were looking for.

They go to sleep and wake up, the players, just like banjos
I’m going to sleep right away