Nice banjo, Ill let others comment on the banjo which is a no hole archtop which is somewhat rare and desireable but I can tell you that resonator 2 is aJapanese made part from the seventys or early eightys

Nice banjo. According to Spann's Guide to Gibson, you have a 1927 TB-4. The label looks good and the factory order numbers match and look correct. It appears to have a no-hole raised head tone ring. The tuners, tailpiece and armrest look like modern replacements. That other resonator looks to me to be from a model 800 from the sixties or seventies.

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Originally posted by desert rose

Nice banjo, Ill let others comment on the banjo which is a no hole archtop which is somewhat rare and desireable but I can tell you that resonator 2 is aJapanese made part from the seventys or early eightys

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Excellent! Thanks for the ID. I've seen a bunch of identical ones out in the net-o-sphere and wondered. One of my thoughts successfully debunked!

I agree a Gibson TB 4. Hearts and flowers inlay, w-b-w binding on neck and resonator, two concentric circles on back of resonator, etc. Armrest is one piece so is not original 1920s stock, more likely a repro. Tailpiece is not original for a TB 4 of this age. Definitely refinished to that cafe au lait color, since originals were a medium brown mahogany. The painted in Factory Order Number in the resonator is Gibson factory practice. Neck would also be mahogany. The arch top tone ring is a variant Gibson tried for a little while in 1927 and 1928 called a "no hole arch top". Gibson abandoned it and committed to the "40 hole arch top" instead.

The "other" resonator appears to be from a 1960s/70s RB 500 or 800. It is indeed maple skinned instead of mahogany. NOTE: Some Japanese copies of Gibsons used a very similar resonator with that same "checkerboard" binding, but usually will have a seam in the maple back running right up the middle. C.an't tell from your photo if it has such a seam or is a "one piece" maple skin on the back of the resonator.

The TB 4 was the second step up Gibson's Mastertone stairway of quality. The first step style 3 was MUCH MUCH more popular, and the TB 4 is fairly rare in the Gibson Mastertone banjo population. It was outsold, in fact, by Gibson's next model up, the gold plated Granada model.

That is a very nice banjo, although the value is depressed a bit by the refinish job. It would be an excellent player for a tenor banjo man. A real pro's instrument. Someone took good care of it for a long time.

Invaluable information! Thanks, all. It debunks a lot of my thoughts about it.

I appreciate the clarification that it's a TB-4. I should have looked more closely at the grain to determine it was mahogany, and therefore refinished. My gut was saying the same thing about the refin and the setup. It always makes me happy to see vintage instruments set up as players. That's what I do with my vintage guitars. I leave the preservation to museums and just play them as they're meant to be enjoyed. :C)

Any idea of the value of this instrument despite the aftermarket add-ons?

Heel cap on neck, concentric rings on resonator, and Hearts & Flowers inlays = TB-4

The no hole archtops sound great too

So I think I have enough info about this  instrument, at least to determine a range for valuation, so I'll go on to the next one. 

Gibson Tenor 2
This one seems to be constructed from a jumble of parts, including a resonator similar to the one above. The neck and headstock appear to be the real thing possibly from the same era as the first, although the tuners appear newer. Not sure if Gibsons from this era ever came with Waverly tailpieces. My friend said there are only three thumbscrews holding on the resonator instead of four. The serial number doesn't seem to jive with anything I've seen from Gibson. 

I wish I had better, more specific photos, but as mentioned, I'm being sent pics from my friend with her mom in another state.

Again, thanks in advance for sharing your expertise. 

first one, is a legit conversion with a real gibson pot, the second one is a parts banjo, looks like a real gibson neck (perhaps the original neck from the other gibson) attached to another non gibson pot. probably asian from the 1970s

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Originally posted by kyleb

first one, is a legit conversion with a real gibson pot, the second one is a parts banjo, looks like a real gibson neck (perhaps the original neck from the other gibson) attached to another non gibson pot. probably asian from the 1970s

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The neck on that TB-4 is period correct and most probably original to it.

The 2nd banjo has a 1927/28/29 era TB-3 neck

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Originally posted by ChunoTheDog

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Originally posted by kyleb

first one, is a legit conversion with a real gibson pot, the second one is a parts banjo, looks like a real gibson neck (perhaps the original neck from the other gibson) attached to another non gibson pot. probably asian from the 1970s

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The neck on that TB-4 is period correct and most probably original to it.

The 2nd banjo has a 1927/28/29 era TB-3 neck

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I'm totally confused I guess  but see what you're saying now , the banjo listed as a tb-3 is really a hearts and flowers tb-4, the other banjo is a a tb-3 neck put onto a non Gibson pot. That makes sense . Right?

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Originally posted by kyleb

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Originally posted by ChunoTheDog

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Originally posted by kyleb

first one, is a legit conversion with a real gibson pot, the second one is a parts banjo, looks like a real gibson neck (perhaps the original neck from the other gibson) attached to another non gibson pot. probably asian from the 1970s

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The neck on that TB-4 is period correct and most probably original to it.

The 2nd banjo has a 1927/28/29 era TB-3 neck

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I'm totally confused I guess  but see what you're saying now , the banjo listed as a tb-3 is really a hearts and flowers tb-4, the other banjo is a a tb-3 neck put onto a non Gibson pot. That makes sense . Right?

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Yup that makes sense to me too. Style 3s in that period ('27, '28, '29) only came with the bowtie/snowflake looking inlays. They generally werent available with the Hearts & Flowers inlays. That was reserved for Style 4 and Granada etc

I agree the neck looks like a TB 3, even the Grover tuners possibly. Normally that period of the 1920s had a deep purple like stain on the resonator and neck, and plain white bindings with no black line in the binding.

The rim is not Gibson. The "serial number" or "Factory Order Number" is kind of in the style of the Mastertones from 1954 to 1959. The "9" as the first number would be intended to suggest 1959. However, Gibson didn't use stamps with that small font. So I doubt the rim is Gibson, although it's "in the style". Are there exactly 40 holes in that tone ring? If so there's at least the possiblity it is pre-war Gibson. Those tone rings had no markings, so you'd have to get a for-sure one in your hand to compare to the one on your banjo.

The resonator is Asian. Additionally, "somebody" move the resonator lugs around to unusual positions, you can see the older holes. The hardware holding the resonator to the pot is not Gibson unless from a certain period in the 1970s when they did some crazy things, perhaps with cheap Asian hardware. In any case that appears to be resonator hardware from banjo parts catalogs that was cheap. Gibsons from post WWII had 3 lugs, but not in the places where this banjo has them. It's just odd.

That tailpiece was never used by Gibson, although it's an OK tailpiece. Perfectly serviceable.

As far as the flange, if it's Gibson from either the 1930s or post WWII it would have a small stamp in the underside that is currently hidden by the neck heel. Known as the Doehler mark (Doehler made Gibson's flanges). If no Doehler mark, it's an aftermarket flange. Post 1984 or so, Gibson flanges had the word "Gibson" cast into the underside in the neck heel area.

After seeing two "Gibson" banjos with "parts" added on, I'll offer a theory. Because bluegrass 5 string banjos commanded the market after about 1960, a LOT of tenor and plectrum 4 string Gibson necks got taken off and retired (orphaned). And replaced with a luthier's 5 string repro neck. An enterprising tenor banjo dealer might pick up these abandoned necks CHEAP and then fasten them to whatever type of Gibson facsimile pot that could be located, and sold as putative Gibsons. Partially Gibson, partially Asian, partially stuff from parts catalogs.

Go to any Gibson conversion neck maker and you'll see SCORES of orphaned tenor and plectrum necks hanging on his wall, worth pretty much "nothing" except eye candy.

Thanks, Dick! 

Your theory about an "enterprising tenor parts opportunist" makes a lot of sense. Again, your posts offer invaluable information, and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

A 1927 TB4 will have a mahogany resonator, multiple binding, and the 2 coencentric rings on the resonator (like my '28 #4 has).

The two-leg armrest with the "Gibson" stamp on it is from the 1970's. Gibson sold these "as parts" back then. I believe the original armrest was a 2-piece, it may have broken so the owner got the existing replacement instead.

I agree that this one has been refinished. The original "reddish" mahogany finish was "darker".

On the other banjo...

The resonator could be Japanese (like Scott said).
However, it also reminds me of the resonators Gibson used on the 1970's era "500" series banjos.

The neck looks to be gen-u-ine Gibson ... a TB3 (maple?).

But the pot doesn't "match". The neck would be cut for a 2-piece flange, and this banjo has a one-piece flange. Show us a CLOSE UP of the neck where it meets the pot.

Is there no Gibson label in the second pot? That would be suspicious (i.e., not from the factory).

It's got a 5-string tailpiece on it, too!

And a five-string tension hoop.

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Originally posted by J.Albert

A 1927 TB4 will have a mahogany resonator, multiple binding, and the 2 coencentric rings on the resonator (like my '28 #4 has).

The two-leg armrest with the "Gibson" stamp on it is from the 1970's. Gibson sold these "as parts" back then. I believe the original armrest was a 2-piece, it may have broken so the owner got the existing replacement instead.

I agree that this one has been refinished. The original "reddish" mahogany finish was "darker".

On the other banjo...

The resonator could be Japanese (like Scott said).
However, it also reminds me of the resonators Gibson used on the 1970's era "500" series banjos.

The neck looks to be gen-u-ine Gibson ... a TB3 (maple?).

But the pot doesn't "match". The neck would be cut for a 2-piece flange, and this banjo has a one-piece flange. Show us a CLOSE UP of the neck where it meets the pot.

Is there no Gibson label in the second pot? That would be suspicious (i.e., not from the factory).

It's got a 5-string tailpiece on it, too!

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Appreciate the info! Unfortunately, I can't get anymore photos, since, as mentioned, my wife's friend took them several states away and sent them to me. I've forwarded everyone's insight and comments to them, and I think they're now going to act on it as best as they can.

Again, thanks to everyone for your expertise. You're ultimately helping a woman honor her late husband's collection. She's very appreciative!