Here’s a perfect example of what we are looking for. This is from a recent funeral. The mixer is out of the picture. But in the foreground and background, you can see our very old dilapidated hot spot monitors, turned around and used for mains. They are at least 50 years old, and the grills have long rotted off, and we just put fabric on them. We’ve resoldered the connectors and speakers countless time over the years. Their sound quality is questionable, but they were fine for this application. We would love to replace them with some nice modern small hi fi mains.

Studio monitor speakers are often small and light.

I know the overhead of bulky gear. I just got one of those red carts from Harbor Freight.

quote:

---

Originally posted by randybartlett

Studio monitor speakers are often small and light.

I know the overhead of bulky gear. I just got one of those red carts from Harbor Freight.

---

I was actually looking at the studio monitors at guitar center, and going back tomorrow. They are also trending towards future shock, with powered and Bluetooth etc. and also a confusing blend of different connections and mounting methods. I'd love to hear about anyone elso who's used these as an option. I'll be looking closer at them tomorrow. 

We also have carts to haul gear. Mine is a permanent resident of my car trunk, alway ready to haul stuff

Dean, how many inputs are we talking about? Is it all microphones or are there instrument pickups and other media?

The reason I ask is that I have good success running most gigs through acoustic combo amps rather than a PA. I still borrow a PA with big 800 watt speakers when I need to really crank it, but that's not often. There are some really affordable acoustic amp options from Fender and and Fishman that have two inputs and two speakers. Each input is compatible with either a 1/4" instrument cable or XLR cable.

So if you are only needing 4 inputs for example, you could get away with two of these amps, and not have to even mess with a mixer (and a stand for the mixer, power supply, etc). The only downside I've found is that you don't have a master volume control for all inputs at one time.

Just a thought!
Happy pickin

When playing house concerts or folk club gigs, we used 2 large membrane condensor (Audix SCX25), a tiny mixing board (Soundcraft EPM-6), a stereo feedback suppressor/EQ (DBX AFS-224) a power amp and 2 speakers (JBL Control One) That's all we ever needed.

For larger venues, simply feeding the DBX output into the house PA.

quote:

---

Originally posted by TScottHilton

Dean, how many inputs are we talking about? Is it all microphones or are there instrument pickups and other media?

The reason I ask is that I have good success running most gigs through acoustic combo amps rather than a PA. I still borrow a PA with big 800 watt speakers when I need to really crank it, but that's not often. There are some really affordable acoustic amp options from Fender and and Fishman that have two inputs and two speakers. Each input is compatible with either a 1/4" instrument cable or XLR cable.

So if you are only needing 4 inputs for example, you could get away with two of these amps, and not have to even mess with a mixer (and a stand for the mixer, power supply, etc). The only downside I've found is that you don't have a master volume control for all inputs at one time.

Just a thought!
Happy pickin

---

Thanks Scott! For the small places we are only using one single cartoid mic input (needs phantom power), into a small power mixer, out too two speakers. We have tons of equipment, but no small speakers... which is what I'm looking for. I thought I was just going to go down to guitar center and pick up a couple small passive speakers... but that's not the case! Anything available is way overkill. And all the smaller stuff isn't compatible with PA stands and connections. Money really isn't an issue, but small light and simple is. We do have a collection of amps, but again, way overkill! 

quote:

---

Originally posted by RB-1

When playing house concerts or folk club gigs, we used 2 large membrane condensor (Audix SCX25), a tiny mixing board (Soundcraft EPM-6), a stereo feedback suppressor/EQ (DBX AFS-224) a power amp and 2 speakers (JBL Control One) That's all we ever needed.

For larger venues, simply feeding the DBX output into the house PA.

---

Thanks! Great information! Thanks for the link to the speakers. How to you handle the speaker connection? The JBL description says "direct wiring connection"... which I assume is bare wires and spring clips. Is that how you do it? 

Take the guts out of some old Roland microcubes.
A clever fellow could simply rewire them as you wish, as there ain't alot of guts to them.
I gig with 2 of them, but I don't require a dozen channels.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dean T

quote:

---

Originally posted by RB-1

When playing house concerts or folk club gigs, we used 2 large membrane condensor (Audix SCX25), a tiny mixing board (Soundcraft EPM-6), a stereo feedback suppressor/EQ (DBX AFS-224) a power amp and 2 speakers (JBL Control One) That's all we ever needed.

For larger venues, simply feeding the DBX output into the house PA.

---

Thanks! Great information! Thanks for the link to the speakers. How to you handle the speaker connection? The JBL description says "direct wiring connection"... which I assume is bare wires and spring clips. Is that how you do it? 

---

The connectors on the JBLs are indeed spring clips. but rugged and not a potential source of problems.

Bare ends on your cables, however...

I solved this by taking two (~1") pieces of brass tubing (~1/8" OD) and flattening these over ~1.2 ".

Soldering the cable ends into the round ends, and covering that bit with several layers of (red and black!) shrinking sleeve made those ends wear resistant. The flat ends perfectly match the spring clips.

I never had a bad contact there since.

It's important to cut frequencies below ~100 Hz, because you might grill the speaker's coils otherwise.

The combination between a large membrane mic and some low room resonances might trigger this 'howl'.

Careful goes a long way....

Like wise, while setting the feedback killer (actually an automatic, extremely narrow band EQ), take care to keep the volume low enough, preventing from blowing up the tweeters.

Thanks Bruno! That’s perfect information! I spoke with a bandmate this morning for a long time, going over all this… still going over options…

Having owned some of those small Bose speakers in the past, I can tell you that the good sound is because there's a subwoofer hidden someplace.

Anyway, my PA is old school like yours: "lunchbox" style Peavey powered mixer/head and two 12-inch passive Peavey plastic cabinet speakers mounted on poles. As my former band's needs grew, I added a mixer, using the Peavey head only for power. At small venues, it's two internal amps were used to drive mains and monitors. For larger setups, a bandmate brought his similar Peavey head so we could put more power into mains and monitors plus drive more monitor speakers.

More to your question: If you got by with the sound in the setup you showed us, and respecting your list of things you don't want, then I'd suggest getting this pair of 10-inch Peavey speakers for $250 and call it a day. 18 pounds each.

Thanks! I literally just came off the GC website, after comparing all the passive 8” and 10” speakers. That is the direction we are heading. Peavey is definitely in consideration… we have a 20 year old set of Peavy boat anchor 15” that have been through Kansas summer hell, and still going strong.

I'd like to explain that our set up (without any sub woofer) is meant for small rooms ( 20-30 people max.) and for balancing vocals and solo instruments against the instrumental back up only,

As in rooms this size, most of the instruments are heard well everywhere even without PA.

For larger rooms, all we'd do is replacing the mini speakers with large cabinets, not applying any sub low cut off and of course setting the feedback killer/EQ before touching anything else.

You'd have to do this anyway before every gig in a new/different room, as room acoustics are the main source for ringing/feedback. While performing this set up step, it's better to do it before the audience comes in. If people start talking or making noise with glasses and bottles, the EQ might mistake that sound for feedback and adding compensation that makes no sense, bringing down the overall sound quality.

Another hint: As you see our stage banter in the picture (the joke about the banjo player and the crocodil), you can see my instrument mic. I'm only using that to lift the level in a solo. When playing back up I'll be to Elly's side and in case of the banjo, I'm often even partially hiding that behind her, to keep it from over powering it all.

Thanks Bruno! You’re doing what we are aspiring too, basically just enough amplification to relax while performing acoustically. We also have larger cabinets, but it’s just nuts to lug 15” or even 12” speaker cabs to play a small gathering. We’ve done these small gigs without any electronics, but it’s in the grey area where you have to play and especially sing too hard, to relax and have fun. I can also certainly identify with banjo power… I often retreat sIghtly behind or rhythm guitar player while playing back up.

Dean,

We use an old Pignose Hog30 as a powered speaker with a Rolls MX-310 channel mixer as the front end. We use one channel for a condenser mic that will pick up all the instruments, and 1 or 2 channels with dynamic mics for voice(s) . It sets up in about 10 minutes. Pignose doesn't make this model anymore, but there are several used ones that just need new 12v batteries listed on several sites for cheap. The lead acid batteries are under $20. You can use it anywhere on batteries or pug it in. We've used it for years.

Rick

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dean T

Thanks! I literally just came off the GC website, after comparing all the passive 8” and 10” speakers. That is the direction we are heading. Peavey is definitely in consideration… we have a 20 year old set of Peavy boat anchor 15” that have been through Kansas summer hell, and still going strong.

---

If you get the 8s, I'm pretty sure you'll end up wishing you'd got the 10s. For four to six pieces I think you want more power (even aat low volume) and more range. The Behringers at GC for under $100 each and under 16 lbs looked worth a try.

I was happy with my 12s and was still lifting them up onto stands at 71 to run sound at my nephew's wedding and a year before that for one of my neighborhood's pandemic era front yard concerts. I think I could still lift them, but I'm probably done running sound. I can appreciate your wanting something smaller and lighter.

Thanks Rick and Ken!

We’ve got power mixers, and with the single mic, set up is painless. It’s just down to speakers. We already have some old Phonics (don’t even know if the company is still around) 12” that we’ve used for just about every indoor gig for years. But they are the heavy overkill plywood cabinets, that started the search for replacements, and inspired this thread. It just kills me, when I walk into the gym, or resturaunt, etc, and hear sound to die for, coming out of speakers a fraction of the size, and yet live sound options seem to be years behind, and still in the “bigger is better” mindset.

23 years ago, we bought our first PA system. It was a cheap 4 channel set up by Kustom. The speakers were duel stacked 4” with a small tweeter sandwiched between them. They were small, light and narrow and sounded awesome. We blew the mixer within a year, and gave the whole system away. Big mistake. We should have kept those speakers, they would have been perfect. I haven’t found anything else like them since.

The Behringer 8” and 10” are at the top of the list. I’ve had the 8” in my Amazon Shopping cart for a few days, but still not sure. The case for 10” is good. After talking to bandmates, again, we’ve discussed the powered speaker, with phantom power, option. Then set up would involve plugging in one chord. But it seems crazy to spend another $800-$1000+ on more stuff, when we already have multiple powered mixers. I guess we are just old guys stuck between technologies…

When playing in larger rooms, all we needed was replacing the -shoe box sized- JBL Contol Ones by our JBL G-734 on stands. 

For every new gig the Feedback killer/ EQ had to be set all over again anyway, so changing speakers made no difference.

Speaking of which, this 'ringing out' of the room should always be performed before setting the mixer channels EQs. All neutral!

The G-734 (16"woofer):

I have a couple of these in the original Mackie company blue label that are the Swiss army knives of PA

quote:

---

Originally posted by RB-1

When playing in larger rooms, all we needed was replacing the -shoe box sized- JBL Contol Ones by our JBL G-734 on stands. 

---

Here's a good representation of what we have from back in our heyday. Using the 15's and 12's as monitors and big ass mains (dobro player owns them, no idea the size). That's our 8 channel Mackie mixer, and we also have a 10 and 5 channel versions. We still have all that stuff. But we don't do big gigs anymore, so rarely use it. I'll never forget doing a show at a renovated movie theater, in a small town. It took 30 minutes to set up and sound check, and when we were done with our set, it took 15 minutes to tear down and throw everything out the back door, and get a seat for the next band. They rolled a Bose pole in, mixing board, plugged in a few mics, had wireless instruments, and after a 5 minute set up, they were blowing the roof off the place. It was kind of embarrassing how much s*** we had. That left a lasting impression on us.  Since we are all acoustic, we started experimenting with single mic, and here we are, old and still trying to figure it all out. 

quote:

---

Originally posted by mmuussiiccaall

I have a couple of these in the original Mackie company blue label that are the Swiss army knives of PA

---

I'm just now starting to learn about the whole power speaker/PA in one concept. Do those have phantom mic power? 

Yep

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dean T
I'm just now starting to learn about the whole power speaker/PA in one concept. Do those have phantom mic power? 

---

Most do. You have to read the specs to be sure.

I came close to buying some type of powered speaker or low-cost column-plus-sub copy of the Bose L1 for the family wedding I provided sound for a few years ago. Then decided I probably wouldn't have any future use for it, so I didn't and just lugged my old stuff.

But I looked at a lot of products and while I thought they were interesting, most powered speakers have little in the way of EQ. Typically they either have situational presets for the type of audio material or venue or low, mid, and high control knobs.  I don't recall any having multi-band graphic EQ.

Maybe that would do. for a speaking engagement or a solo or duo musical performance. But I can't see running a full band without real EQ for the overall mix and not just individual channel EQ.

So if I were using a powered speaker, I'd probably run everything through an external mixer first.

Then again, if you're doing the "bluegrass ballet" with a full band sharing one mic I can't see any reason not to rely on whatever EQ control the speaker gives you.

One benefit of the column arrays or pole speakers is they're supposed to offer wider horizontal dispersion. One well-placed column covers the whole room. Within limits, of course. Not all speakers include specs for horizontal dispersion or coverage. Two small speakers give you good coverage.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Old Hickory

Then again, if you're doing the "bluegrass ballet" with a full band sharing one mic I can't see any reason not to rely on whatever EQ control the speaker gives you.

 

---

Boy, I sure can! Single mic setups generally use a large diaphragm condenser mic, and those are far more sensitive to feedback than SDC or dynamic mics owing to their wide input patterns. And depending on venue, you may be getting sound bouncing back from angles you hadn't considered. I speak from experience.

My system, which I haven't used in about ten years, includes a DBX Driverack unit (which cost a lot less then than they do now). It automatically EQs, using a special calibrating mic, and rings out the room quite nicely! Also runs continously and resets itself if it starts detecting feedback during performance. Great little rig.

quote:

---

Originally posted by eagleisland
Single mic setups generally use a large diaphragm condenser mic, and those are far more sensitive to feedback than SDC or dynamic mics owing to their wide input patterns. And depending on venue, you may be getting sound bouncing back from angles you hadn't considered. I speak from experience.

---

Thanks for the education. My sound days are probably done, But you never know.

We set up with walls, windows and corners behind us a lot of times over the years. Guess I never considered reflections. Probably explained some of the unexpected problems. That, and my lack of knowledge.