I've heard that they have better low end response.

Gibson's pre-war scale length was 26-3/8 inches. Rounded by some to 26.4.

I think that length was also used post-war, but from the "Greg Rich Era" to the end, 26-1/4 inches.

KC's guess is as good as any about why RK used the longer length. I wonder if besides better low end response it also made the banjo more crisp by pushing the bridge further back toward the tailpiece.

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Originally posted by Mike VB

Especially if it's supposed to be based on "Mastertone banjos of the 1930’s?" I thought Gibson necks were generally all 26-1/2" scale?

Almost an inch longer scale could definitely be felt and probably heard.

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Vega, Ode, Fender, Wildwood and many others had 27"–27 1/4" scales.

No one felt the extra inch on the Elite during testing until they were told. The nut to the 12th fret is 1/2" longer; to the 5th fret is only 1/4" longer. People don't feel it.

The extra inch gives a stronger fundamental and a crisper tone going up the neck due to the slight increase in tension.

‘The Strings Are The Engine’ of any instrument. The longer the string the more power is available and the better the tone is a rule of thumb. Whenever I make a banjo for someone I work with the longest scale length they are comfortable with.

I have two 27" scale Vegas and do not notice the difference.

Read Mikes post as many times as necessary, thats all fact

"Almost an inch longer scale could definitely be felt and probably heard."

This appears to be a true statement.

It is also true that some players may feel no difference and some players may hear no difference, just as some players don't hear a tone when tapping the head.  A 27-3/8" scale puts about 8% more tension on the strings than a 26-3/8".  That's not insignificant.  Some players may feel that, some may not.

And it is also true that the selection of strings affects the tension, and tension affects tone.  So if a player is optimizing the choice of string gauges to get the best feel and tone for that particular player, that player is going to both feel and hear a difference between a longer scale and a shorter scale.  

I'm one of those "that players."     For me it's not "you'll hear a difference but you won't feel a difference."  I definitely have felt a difference, and whether or not I hear a difference attributable only to the difference in scale length may be irrelevant after I decide which strings feel and sound the best.

I'd be interested in knowing how Recording King made the decision to use a 27-3/8" scale, rather than, say, a 27" or 27-1/4 or 27.314159" scale.  Were they speculating and trying arbitrary scale lengths, or trying out scale lengths that were on other banjos in the past?

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Originally posted by Bill H

I have two 27" scale Vegas and do not notice the difference.

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That’s because they are both 27"s.     :-)

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Originally posted by martyjoe

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill H

I have two 27" scale Vegas and do not notice the difference.

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That’s because they are both 27"s.     :-)

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I should have said, compared to my other banjos with 26 3/16" scales. I regularly will play my Senator, Electric or Vega-Martin, all with 27 inch scales, and  switch to one of my Nechville banjos, and really don't notice that it feels any different. I play the Electric and the Nechville Moonshine daily, so it may be that I automatically adapt form habit. II am convinced it does affect sound, particularly volume.

Play one of any of those RK with the long scale and then play a Huber or Neat Banjo, the shorter scale is not only 100% easier to note it also sounds sweeter. Basing my opinion's on how they feel and sound to my ears when playing in a band setting, no technical stuff. I had several RK Banjos, beautiful instruments, I sold them because the extra scale length just wasn't needed. Not one fingerstyle Banjo player of any notoriety plays a 27 3/8 scale regularly onstage, that includes Blea Fleck. That should tell you something. The pickers who like then a 27 3/8 scale guarantee don't play very much. all the extra work dealing with the distance is tiring, especially when you have been playing a shorter scale for many years. However, the VEGA neck scale is perfect, and I love playing Vegas. Let's not forget Scott Vestal his Stealth banjo neck scale is 1/2 shorter then a Mastertone. Scott vestal Tabs are alot easier to play if you have a Stealth Banjo with the short 25.5 scale

I like to think of harps and pianos when we discuss the acoustic balance of stringed instruments. The high notes have short strings and the low notes have long strings with each string having the optimum gauge. As cap eludes to shorter strings can make the notes sweeter sounding and as others have mentioned longer strings can give more volume in the sound. It’s like the old argument of who likes the Fender scale length or the Gibson scale length. One thing I like about the longer scale length is that it allows for a lighter gauge of string so the string tension isn’t necessarily greater and it brings out more of the complex overtones into the sound. I can understand how someone could prefer a shorter scaled banjo for on stage performance or if they have a physical condition like arthritis. But the longer scale almost always wins out in the recording studio.

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Originally posted by mikehalloran

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike VB

Especially if it's supposed to be based on "Mastertone banjos of the 1930’s?" I thought Gibson necks were generally all 26-1/2" scale?

Almost an inch longer scale could definitely be felt and probably heard.

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Vega, Ode, Fender, Wildwood and many others had 27"–27 1/4" scales.

No one felt the extra inch on the Elite during testing until they were told. The nut to the 12th fret is 1/2" longer; to the 5th fret is only 1/4" longer. People don't feel it.

The extra inch gives a stronger fundamental and a crisper tone going up the neck due to the slight increase in tension.

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I think several responses within this thread confirm my assertion in my OP that many players can indeed feel the difference.  As a guitarist of 48 years if you blindfold me and hand me two identical guitars other than one has a 25.5 scale and the other is 24.75 I can feel the difference in about 10 seconds of playing them.

Back in 2017 I had one 27" scale banjo that I made as an experiment, and several 25.5" scale banjos. I had several people who came to try the banjos during that time and none of them noticed the difference until I pointed it out.

Mike
You freely ignore Mikes points, his input is from the inside . ie he was closely associted with rk, and my comments were also from the inside, as the person who set up the rk factory in China, and as an r and d instrument engineer. When developing instruments for major market acceptance TESTING EXTENSIVE TESTING IS DONE, both named pros and rank amateurs are tapped and the final product is developed from this input, elminating risk. Mikes comments are the distilled answers from this process and correct, you may not agree for what ever reason, but his points are not subect to question.

"his points are not subect to question."

"People don't feel it."

What?  I am subjecting the points to question and using as proof that I have no trouble distinguishing the difference by "feel" between a 27-3/8" neck and a 26-3/8" neck.  And I'm supposed to believe that every, every banjo picker no matter how experienced has never, and can never, distinguish between the two lengths by feel?  Even when they zip from the D chord at the 3rd fret to the D chord at the 12th fret without looking and come up 1/2 inch short?  

C'mon.    There's certainly space for a different view here, something less than absolutely only one way.  (As Khalil Gibran said, "Let there be space in your togetherness.")

There.  I feel better.  Peace.  

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ROOM for different opinions Alex thats what product developement and r and d are focused on, whats not subject to debate is looking from the out side and not understanding the process and HUGE amount of both time and money involved in the prduct developement and r and d stage, and debating the out come of that work. Disagreeing is absolutely fine but questioning the results isnt.
Ive been involved in instrument r and d and product developement full time in one way or another since 1980, with some of the industry most successful instruments and a few magnificent flops, and the successful projects all share similar features and processes, as do the flops

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Originally posted by Cap

Not one fingerstyle Banjo player of any notoriety plays a 27 3/8 scale regularly onstage, that includes Blea Fleck. That should tell you something. The pickers who like then a 27 3/8 scale guarantee don't play very much. all the extra work dealing with the distance is tiring, especially when you have been playing a shorter scale for many years. However, the VEGA neck scale is perfect, and I love playing Vegas. 

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??

First... um.  Yeah.  I've only been playing that long scale since 2013... I'm nobody, but I'm busy enough.  

I do find it amusing that you're fine with 27", but that extra 3/8" is tiring.  lol

-=jim

Had more than a few Elites and the problem I had was going back and forth between a standard 26.xx scale and the 27.xx scale banjo. In some places on the neck the longer scale actually felt more comfortable and in other locations it became a stretch. You gotta be precise with the left hand and I found it difficult to do going back and forth even with the minimal spacing difference as mentioned. My brain could tell. I ended up putting a standard scale Gold Tone neck on a couple RK pots as an experiment and they are some of my favorites now. It does make a difference both tonally and playabilty wise. 

Just putting this here…